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coachkemp

Lets do a comparison...

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People are talking about the Quagliarella deal at 7m (roughly) as not being a good deal, or more than 5m for Hooper not being worthwhile. Question is, if a player like Kone is worth 5m to Everton and unknowns like Helenius and Cornelius being worth 7m. And even Dwight Gayle being worth 4-5m...does the Quagliarella/Hooper deal suddenly seem like better value or not? Personally for me, I would do a deal for Quagliarella at 6-7m, a player who plays in the whole, has a superb record of 1in 3 over the past 5 years and lots of international experience. His age is a factor, admittedly however surely his pedigree makes him just as if not more attractive a proposition than others mentioned?

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Quagliarella would be our best player, undisputedly. Whether he could carry his reputation over to the premiership is another matter. Yes he''s 30, but that gives us a couple of years and he comes off the back of having a good season at Juve even if he didn''t play all the time.

Despite our increase in stature, players like Quag that we can convince will be in short supply and so depending on our ambitions, we should gamble and see if he can push us to the next level. We won''t bankrupt ourselves from just him i''m sure.

Hooper represents a smaller gamble due to his age etc but would also need to adapt. If he even goes on to have half the career Quag has had then he''ll have done well.

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The issue with Quag compared to a lot of those players is he doesn''t have any sell on value. Also he doesn''t fit the team. Hooper possibly has more sell on value also is a better fit.

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Sell on value doesn''t make a difference, 95% of our squad has a huge sell on value as they are all quite young and picked up for bargains.
One player who doesn''t have a sell on value doesn''t make effect us at all, I would rather sign him for £7mill and get 2 decent seasons out of him, us staying in this division alone for 2 seasons is probably worth in excess of £200million

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Any sell-on value would be large if he played for us for, say, three seasons. We could well lose £5m over the time, but we could well lose that in a wage-limit-busting settlement to get him here. Any bust could have medium term consequences for further players as well. His wages over three years could well be £8m or more.

 

We are signing quality players now, even if one or two came via perceptive trading - Lisbon, Birmingham broke, Fer/Everton, etc, Blackburn relegated, and so on. Consequently we have to consider raising our top wage level which, of course, will tend to raise lower wages of lesser lights.... But we are ambitious to reach dizzy heights, and risks are one of the consequences.

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[quote user="pilksfanclub"]The issue with Quag compared to a lot of those players is he doesn''t have any sell on value. Also he doesn''t fit the team. Hooper possibly has more sell on value also is a better fit.[/quote]

 

What exactly does that mean?

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[quote user="pilksfanclub"]The issue with Quag compared to a lot of those players is he doesn''t have any sell on value. Also he doesn''t fit the team. Hooper possibly has more sell on value also is a better fit.[/quote]

Why does sell on value matter?

If he is good enough to take us to the next level, Ie a trophy or the Europa League, then we have had out monies worth

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How do we know what type of players will "fit the team" this coming season, none of us has any real idea how we will be set-up and how we will play. For me, we should certainly aim to sign both of these strikers, we need different options up front in this league, game changers even...OTBC

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[quote user="Dubai Mark"]How do we know what type of players will "fit the team" this coming season, none of us has any real idea how we will be set-up and how we will play. For me, we should certainly aim to sign both of these strikers, we need different options up front in this league, game changers even...OTBC[/quote]Id also like to add that Quagliarella is famously known as one of Italy''s best "trequartista''s", who plays as a second striker/No.10 which is exactly a position we need to fill. He fits the formation I believe Hughton prefers or is most likely to play. Whether he fits the league style...well you could ask the same about Hooper maybe as he is coming from a completely different tempo and style. However between the 2, yes Hooper is younger, but does he necessarily have the potential to become what Quagliarella already is? For me it is Quagliarella mainly due to him being in the peak of his career, easily capable of playing at the highest level for a good 2/3 years and he fits the position and formation we need to build upon.

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I really don''t get all of this ''sell on value'' the only reason that could matter to anyone is that if they feel we will be relegation fighters again next season.

At 30 he could still have a good 2-3 seasons left in him at least. Look at Raul - he went to Schalke 04 in 2010 aged 32. Let''s ignore for the moment that I believe there was no fee as he was on a free. He scored something like 28 goals in 66 or so appearances. That proves he still had it.

Comparatively he is better than Kone in terms of his scoring and appearance record since 2007. Kone has made around 115 appearances scoring 29 goals (11 coming last season), he has also represented his national side 39 times scoring 9 goals.

Quagliarella has made 174 appearances in the same time scoring 58 goals as well as 6 goals in 25 appearances for his national side (of which there is arguably more competition to get into it).

Ruud van Nistelrooy was sold to Real Madrid aged 29 for 24million Euro''s. Some people might have thought Sir Alex was right to sell - that amount of money for a 29 year old with a few ongoing injury problems.

Didn''t stop him making 68 appearances in 4 years for Real, netting 46 times. Or at age 33/34 scoring 12 goals in 33 appearances for Hamburg. His last season playing was for Malaga and somewhat less impressive but aged around 35 he scored 4 goals in 28 appearances.

I guess my point is, if he has genuine class, isn''t reliant on one key asset such as pace - like Owen perhaps, then he could easily play on successfully into his 30''s.

So I think signing a player of this calibre for around £7million depending on add ons etc could well be worth it.

We have to remember we are still building and sometimes what you need is a player around this age to come in and give us what he has got and also act as a sort of beacon to other players that may have been more on the fence about making such moves in the future.

In the same way that I believe RVW probably had a part to play in Fer''s transfer, whether he spoke to him or just that Fer had seen a player he may well know through the international set up and may have been encouraged by it.

Not to mention if he does score regularly he will help us to retain our premiership status.

My final point is about the squad as a whole. I doubt very much that changing 7-8 players every summer is very sustainable. Mainly because you would hope that after another season in the premier league we will have a somewhat stable squad. So we may only be looking at changing 3,4 or 5 players.

This means we can focus more money into those signings rather than have to spread it across twice as many.

We need a little bit of an injection now to give us a chance of finishing where we did last season, more comfortably and with a better shout of finishing higher up the table. If we can do that with some good, quality players on board then perhaps the likes of Toivonen in the future will be more inclined to join us.

That plays into my previous comment about perhaps focusing on fewer but better players to improve our squad say next summer - this will probably only work if we can attract the calibre of player we would be looking at spending the money on.

To me signing any player 29 onwards will not be for developing a decent sell on profit, but to boost the clubs performance. You are signing a player in the height of their career - an instant impact.

It will counter act the signings of the likes of Redmond who is 19. And all squads need experience. Playing for Juventus he will be used to the big occasion, hostile fans and opposition players trying to intimidate. Another wise head wouldn''t go amiss.

Age wise we have:

Carlo Nash - 39 (40 in Sept)

Hoolahan - 31

Becchio - 29 (30 in December), Whittaker - 29, Turner - 29 (30 in November), Fox - 29 (30 in December).

Every other player we have currently is 28 or younger. If you suggest that Nash is likely to get many games if any depending on injuries to other keepers etc and that any more midfielders coming in is likely to raise questions about Fox''s future. Not to mention his lack of appearances last season. You are only really looking at Hoolahan, Becchio and Whittaker as being the regular experienced players in and around the starting 11.

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I''m sorry since when has sell on value been such a major concern with our transfer policy?

In an ideal world I would want every player we buy to eventually get sold for less than we paid or be released, because it would mean we got the best years out of our players rather than selling them to someone else to get them.

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