Will this injuction impact NCFC fans across the country?

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="TheNewBoy"][quote user="City1st"]dearie lord meit''s hard to believe that this is not one of the better windups and this is all some glorious spoof of a complete idiotbut no, the eality is that he is as dim as the posts would have you believe.

"We take 2000 fans to away games typically. 20000 season ticket holders remain at home"Yes, and unable to watch the majority of the away games legally because they are PLAYED AT 3PM on a Saturday after noon. The games that are not, have been moved to so as to be .................................broadcast live. So it matters little what package is sold,  those games cannot be legally broadcast to UK consumers.Otherwise it would be pointless trying to explain the obvious flaws in your ridiculous old tosh about selling individual club deals so I shan''t bother - but I will suggest you to get your head out of Murdoch''s backside long enough to tell us how much he lost on buying Myspace.And also suggest you go back to being Tom Cavendish with his crackpot plans to have students growing peppercorns at the show ground whilst teaching City players at Norwich airport - with no cost to anyone and a huge profit for the university and the council ... ............... and a new stadium built on a flyover above the Northern ring road which would therefore cost nothing and provide an excellent ride and ride system to the ground.[/quote]

A 3pm blackout which doesn''t exist in Germany, a nation which has the best domestic attendances of any country in the world and five of the ten best supported clubs in Europe. 

A 3pm blackout which the EU commission found had absolutely no positive effect on attendances. 

An ancient outdated law which serves no purpose anymore. A dinosaur, just like you lot who can''t see how the internet has completely changed the marketplace. 

No idea what the rest of your mundane twaddle was supposed to mean, read it twice and didn''t understand a word. 

[/quote]

you really are a dimwit of the highest order, as yet again another huge hole in your argument has been exposed and so, as before, you try to change your earlier argumentit is somewhat irrelevant to squeak about the wickedness of the 3pm live football blackout in the UK-  it exists, and whilst it does, as previously pointed out, no packages or one off purchases can provide something that cannot be shownlikewise your childish foot stamping and blaming me for this "ancient outdated law" - I offered no opinion as to whether the blackout was good or bad, or whether I was for or against it ...... ...........................and for the record it is not a lawAnd yes I can see how the broadcasting of football has changed through the usage of many mediums, shame you cannot and are also still stuck in some ridiculous timewarp where making up stuff is an accepted part of debate

ps as to the ''mundane twaddle'' as you call it, it was merely a pee take that wondered why you do not post as Tom Cavendish anymorepps thanks for reading the post twice, most others don''t even bother to read them once

[Dean Coney? 0]

If you still want to use the banned site you could just use a proxy server website and disco, you''re back in action.

You could possibly go to www dot hide my ass dot com and you can carry on as normal...

[Monty13 2,229]

Wow there goes any hope of an intelligent debate as usual.

From the FA PL website FAQ:

Why are 3pm kick-offs on a Saturday not televised?

Barclays Premier League matches are not televised in the UK between the hours of 3pm and 5pm on a Saturday primarily in order to protect match attendances and atmosphere.

 

The only block to all games being available via legitimate streaming is the Premier League. It already happens illegally as the infrastructure all the way to internet distribution already exists.

The pirates give consumers what they want, they also don''t do it out of the kindness of their own hearts they make a lot of money through incessant advertising.

It happens in other sports in other countries, it will eventually happen here.

 

 

[mel0 0]

The block on First Row is on their old URL. They already moved to a new one as soon as news came out that the PL were planning on blocking it.

So everything will carry on as normal. You will never stop streaming.

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="Monty13"]

Wow there goes any hope of an intelligent debate as usual.

From the FA PL website FAQ:

Why are 3pm kick-offs on a Saturday not televised?

Barclays Premier League matches are not televised in the UK between the hours of 3pm and 5pm on a Saturday primarily in order to protect match attendances and atmosphere.

 

The only block to all games being available via legitimate streaming is the Premier League. It already happens illegally as the infrastructure all the way to internet distribution already exists.

The pirates give consumers what they want, they also don''t do it out of the kindness of their own hearts they make a lot of money through incessant advertising.

It happens in other sports in other countries, it will eventually happen here.

[/quote]

Indeed, it will, they will have no choice. Just like publishers didn''t have any choice but to publish to Kindle, just like record companies didn''t have any choice but to sell MP3s, just like movie companies have no choice but to allow their films onto Netflix. 

Didn''t even bother to read City1st post, haven''t seen a single contribution from him which hasn''t been bitter and aggressive, or close minded, or confrontational, since I arrived here, so I like to ignore him and hope that he goes away. 

[Juggy 0]

[quote]ps as to the ''mundane twaddle'' as you call it, it was merely a pee take that wondered why you do not post as Tom Cavendish anymore[/quote]

Well I ended up reading it by accident. I am not Tom Cavendish. 

Once-upon-a-time my username was Le Juge. The email account associated with the account was hacked and so my login is lost permanently. I posted here under that name between 2007 and late-2011. 

I''ve also trolled the QPR forum quite extensively with that username. Hope that satisfies your obvious curiosity. 

[Bill 1,788]

by accident, eh !there''s a fair number of folk in A & E who claim that it was ''an accident'' ...................................

however back to the real world and we have more fantasy analogies from someone who is not. so it appears Tom Cavendish

the usual and obvious flaw in this particular case is that the developments named were technological changes - whereas the internet (broadcasting football) has been going for some whilethere is also the small matter that no music/book publisher or film distributor has the monopoly over all output as the PL does - likewise no music/book publisher or film distributor has to join a ''club'' where the owner (the PL ) has that monopoly of not only distribution but creation (playing games)there is also the difference whereby the stuff listedabove is already ''out there'' ie has been published - whereas that is not true of live footballmy suggestion then would be to ''not tom the newsboy'' would be to ask a grown up to help to explain all this, and also to recognise that these supposed fuddy duddies who are not with it ''man'', are actually the folk controlling and directed these changes - one of these ''dinosaurs being the 82 year old Rupert Murdochand also to stop making up stuff

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="City1st"]by accident, eh !there''s a fair number of folk in A & E who claim that it was ''an accident'' ...................................

however back to the real world and we have more fantasy analogies from someone who is not. so it appears Tom Cavendish

the usual and obvious flaw in this particular case is that the developments named were technological changes - whereas the internet (broadcasting football) has been going for some whilethere is also the small matter that no music/book publisher or film distributor has the monopoly over all output as the PL does - likewise no music/book publisher or film distributor has to join a ''club'' where the owner (the PL ) has that monopoly of not only distribution but creation (playing games)there is also the difference whereby the stuff listedabove is already ''out there'' ie has been published - whereas that is not true of live footballmy suggestion then would be to ''not tom the newsboy'' would be to ask a grown up to help to explain all this, and also to recognise that these supposed fuddy duddies who are not with it ''man'', are actually the folk controlling and directed these changes - one of these ''dinosaurs being the 82 year old Rupert Murdochand also to stop making up stuff[/quote]

I''m actually not Tom Cavendish and I would encourage you to stop claiming that I am. Couldn''t care less about the rest of your inane drivel, find somebody else to stalk/attack/harass. 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="TheNewBoy"][quote user="Monty13"]

Wow there goes any hope of an intelligent debate as usual.

From the FA PL website FAQ:

Why are 3pm kick-offs on a Saturday not televised?

Barclays Premier League matches are not televised in the UK between the hours of 3pm and 5pm on a Saturday primarily in order to protect match attendances and atmosphere.

 

The only block to all games being available via legitimate streaming is the Premier League. It already happens illegally as the infrastructure all the way to internet distribution already exists.

The pirates give consumers what they want, they also don''t do it out of the kindness of their own hearts they make a lot of money through incessant advertising.

It happens in other sports in other countries, it will eventually happen here.

[/quote]

Indeed, it will, they will have no choice. Just like publishers didn''t have any choice but to publish to Kindle, just like record companies didn''t have any choice but to sell MP3s, just like movie companies have no choice but to allow their films onto Netflix. 

Didn''t even bother to read City1st post, haven''t seen a single contribution from him which hasn''t been bitter and aggressive, or close minded, or confrontational, since I arrived here, so I like to ignore him and hope that he goes away. 

[/quote]

 

Not true. It is one of those rare issues on which all the English football authorities seem united. And even if it was only the Premier League, who do you think negotiates the TV rights and has shown over several years just how powerful a grip it has on those negotiations?I haven''t done a precise count but roughly at least half the clubs in the Premier League have plans at some stage or other of fruition for ground expansion. And not just the smaller clubs, such as ourselves, but Liverpool, Everton, Spurs and Man City. Do you think these clubs are going to spend squillions of pounds increasing capacity and then vote for a live streaming deal that enables all those fans they were counting on to fill the extra seats instead to stay at home?Added to which Sky (or whoever) would have first to be convinced its so far very successful business model, based on a subscription that provides more than people want but not just only what they want - would survive it people could switch to a deal that indeed provided only what they wanted.

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="TheNewBoy"][quote user="Monty13"]

Wow there goes any hope of an intelligent debate as usual.

From the FA PL website FAQ:

Why are 3pm kick-offs on a Saturday not televised?

Barclays Premier League matches are not televised in the UK between the hours of 3pm and 5pm on a Saturday primarily in order to protect match attendances and atmosphere.

 

The only block to all games being available via legitimate streaming is the Premier League. It already happens illegally as the infrastructure all the way to internet distribution already exists.

The pirates give consumers what they want, they also don''t do it out of the kindness of their own hearts they make a lot of money through incessant advertising.

It happens in other sports in other countries, it will eventually happen here.

[/quote]

Indeed, it will, they will have no choice. Just like publishers didn''t have any choice but to publish to Kindle, just like record companies didn''t have any choice but to sell MP3s, just like movie companies have no choice but to allow their films onto Netflix. 

Didn''t even bother to read City1st post, haven''t seen a single contribution from him which hasn''t been bitter and aggressive, or close minded, or confrontational, since I arrived here, so I like to ignore him and hope that he goes away. 

[/quote]

 

Not true. It is one of those rare issues on which all the English football authorities seem united. And even if it was only the Premier League, who do you think negotiates the TV rights and has shown over several years just how powerful a grip it has on those negotiations?I haven''t done a precise count but roughly at least half the clubs in the Premier League have plans at some stage or other of fruition for ground expansion. And not just the smaller clubs, such as ourselves, but Liverpool, Everton, Spurs and Man City. Do you think these clubs are going to spend squillions of pounds increasing capacity and then vote for a live streaming deal that enables all those fans they were counting on to fill the extra seats instead to stay at home?Added to which Sky (or whoever) would have first to be convinced its so far very successful business model, based on a subscription that provides more than people want but not just only what they want - would survive it people could switch to a deal that indeed provided only what they wanted.

[/quote]

38 games at a seven quid a pop would generate more revenue than a sky sports subscription. 

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="TheNewBoy"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="TheNewBoy"][quote user="Monty13"]

Wow there goes any hope of an intelligent debate as usual.

From the FA PL website FAQ:

Why are 3pm kick-offs on a Saturday not televised?

Barclays Premier League matches are not televised in the UK between the hours of 3pm and 5pm on a Saturday primarily in order to protect match attendances and atmosphere.

 

The only block to all games being available via legitimate streaming is the Premier League. It already happens illegally as the infrastructure all the way to internet distribution already exists.

The pirates give consumers what they want, they also don''t do it out of the kindness of their own hearts they make a lot of money through incessant advertising.

It happens in other sports in other countries, it will eventually happen here.

[/quote]

Indeed, it will, they will have no choice. Just like publishers didn''t have any choice but to publish to Kindle, just like record companies didn''t have any choice but to sell MP3s, just like movie companies have no choice but to allow their films onto Netflix. 

Didn''t even bother to read City1st post, haven''t seen a single contribution from him which hasn''t been bitter and aggressive, or close minded, or confrontational, since I arrived here, so I like to ignore him and hope that he goes away. 

[/quote]

 

Not true. It is one of those rare issues on which all the English football authorities seem united. And even if it was only the Premier League, who do you think negotiates the TV rights and has shown over several years just how powerful a grip it has on those negotiations?I haven''t done a precise count but roughly at least half the clubs in the Premier League have plans at some stage or other of fruition for ground expansion. And not just the smaller clubs, such as ourselves, but Liverpool, Everton, Spurs and Man City. Do you think these clubs are going to spend squillions of pounds increasing capacity and then vote for a live streaming deal that enables all those fans they were counting on to fill the extra seats instead to stay at home?Added to which Sky (or whoever) would have first to be convinced its so far very successful business model, based on a subscription that provides more than people want but not just only what they want - would survive it people could switch to a deal that indeed provided only what they wanted.

[/quote]

38 games at a seven quid a pop would generate more revenue than a sky sports subscription. 

[/quote]

But point taken I guess. For now. Of course, the alternative is to simply scatter fixtures at 11, 2, 5, and 8 o''clock on both Saturday and Sunday. 

Simple. 

[Rolf Harris 31]

Germany has a population of 80 million and they don''t have massive crowds below the Bundesliga. The only way you''ll be able to watch a stream is at home and its not illegal to watch it, its illegal for the person to upload/stream it.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Ches right hand man "]Germany has a population of 80 million......[/quote]We must be close to that with all the illegals.......

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Ches right hand man "]Germany has a population of 80 million......[/quote]We must be close to that with all the illegals.......[/quote]Well we don''t even know how many legals are here, we don''t count them as they enter and we don''t count them as they leave. We have no idea how many Poles are here. 

They can be here legally but working illegally, there are probably more legal immigrants working illegally than they are illegal immigrants working illegally. 

[ReadingCanary 0]

Wonder how long it''s gonna be till TheNewBoy is banned.Every single thread i''ve read now is him arguing with someone or taking a thread completely off topic

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="ReadingCanary"]Wonder how long it''s gonna be till TheNewBoy is banned.Every single thread i''ve read now is him arguing with someone or taking a thread completely off topic[/quote]

It was me who mentioned immigration then was it? I''m not arguing with anybody, I''m being harassed by somebody who thinks my name is Tom Cavendish. I''ve been called ''complete idiot'', and a ''dimwit'' and I''ve not retaliated. Please re-read this thread and reconsider. 

[Monty13 2,229]

I meant the PL as they own/sell the rights but I take your point Purple.

The problem is Purple that, as many have pointed out repeatedly in other threads, TV revenue eclipses ticket sales and I have no doubt that extra revenue from a properly structured pay on demand/subscription service would eclipse any loss in ticket income. Does Sky really think all Norwich (or any other PL team) supporters who want to watch them on TV would sign up 50-60 quid a month for half a dozen games a year without pirate streaming?

There is also no evidence that I am aware of that streaming is actually affecting Ticket sales. It has been rife for a number of years now and as you point out most PL clubs are still looking to expand their capacity and have full to nearly full gates for most games.

You are right on the last count but as far as I can see no one seems to properly modelling or marketing the concept (or if they are they are very quiet about it as its definitely not the party line).

They have taken the initial response to piracy that all industries have in the past and that is to try to combat it head on rather than understand why it exists. They will fail as every industry before them has in the digital age, name me any form of digital piracy that has ever been effectively combated?

[Juggy 0]

According to Deloitte stadia utilisation in the Premier League was at a current record high of 95% last season, and that was with Wigan and QPR in the league.

Total average attendance up 4%. 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Monty13"]I meant the PL as they own/sell the rights but I take your point Purple.

The problem is Purple that, as many have pointed out repeatedly in other threads, TV revenue eclipses ticket sales and I have no doubt that extra revenue from a properly structured pay on demand/subscription service would eclipse any loss in ticket income. Does Sky really think all Norwich (or any other PL team) supporters who want to watch them on TV would sign up 50-60 quid a month for half a dozen games a year without pirate streaming?

There is also no evidence that I am aware of that streaming is actually affecting Ticket sales. It has been rife for a number of years now and as you point out most PL clubs are still looking to expand their capacity and have full to nearly full gates for most games.

You are right on the last count but as far as I can see no one seems to properly modelling or marketing the concept (or if they are they are very quiet about it as its definitely not the party line).

They have taken the initial response to piracy that all industries have in the past and that is to try to combat it head on rather than understand why it exists. They will fail as every industry before them has in the digital age, name me any form of digital piracy that has ever been effectively combated?[/quote]

 

I suspect there isn''t any evidence either way. But there is a big difference between the kind of grotty pirate streaming that seems to be available now (I tried to watch a couple of games last season and gave up and have no intention of trying again) and something much more sophisticated from Sky or whoever. Such a service might not stop existing fans from attending (although I am not sure about that) but could well keep supposed new fans at home.Take Norwich City. Ground expansion would cost up to £30m. Are we going to spend that amount of money and then vote for all our home games to be live-streamed when we would need all the potential extra City fans to attend matches? Ditto for several other clubs in the PL.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="Monty13"]I meant the PL as they own/sell the rights but I take your point Purple.

The problem is Purple that, as many have pointed out repeatedly in other threads, TV revenue eclipses ticket sales and I have no doubt that extra revenue from a properly structured pay on demand/subscription service would eclipse any loss in ticket income. Does Sky really think all Norwich (or any other PL team) supporters who want to watch them on TV would sign up 50-60 quid a month for half a dozen games a year without pirate streaming?

There is also no evidence that I am aware of that streaming is actually affecting Ticket sales. It has been rife for a number of years now and as you point out most PL clubs are still looking to expand their capacity and have full to nearly full gates for most games.

You are right on the last count but as far as I can see no one seems to properly modelling or marketing the concept (or if they are they are very quiet about it as its definitely not the party line).

They have taken the initial response to piracy that all industries have in the past and that is to try to combat it head on rather than understand why it exists. They will fail as every industry before them has in the digital age, name me any form of digital piracy that has ever been effectively combated?[/quote]The problem is you continue to ignore the blindingly obvious.If the PL breaks up the universal package model and offers individual packages then the money the broadcasters recieve from the big club games will dwarf those of clubs like us - so why should we receive an equal cut ? In fact many broadcasters will simply bid ONLY if they can cherry pick the best games.Unfortunately Monty folk like yourself and newsboy are still stuck in some 1990''s (or earlier timewarp) where fans attended individual games as they saw fit - and consequently incomes fluctuated wildly.Nowadays the vast majority of fans at a game are season ticket holders ie subscribing via a ''bundling system'' which smooths out those wrinkles and guarantees roughly the same income for Wigan at home as well as Man Utd at home.The broadcasters fully understand why pirate transmission exists, but the PL isn''t likely to see it''s monopoly and incredible earner destroyed so will undoubtedly continue with this model of bundling games up as one package.That is the future and as many would wish that games were ran so you could simply turn up and buy a ticket on the day for the game you wanted to see, so you will have to accept that the clock can''t (won''t) be turned back.

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="City1st"]

If the PL breaks up the universal package model and offers individual packages then the money the broadcasters recieve from the big club games will dwarf those of clubs like us - so why should we receive an equal cut ? In fact many broadcasters will simply bid ONLY if they can cherry pick the best games. [/quote]

It''s already unequal, Man Utd received £21.1m more than QPR last season, not only due to their 1st place league position but also because 24 of their games were featured. We had 10 games featured. 

So what you are saying is that something which is already unequal will remain unequal? 

[Monty13 2,229]

I literally have no idea what your point is and how it was a reply to mine, I was replying to Purple.