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Will this injuction impact NCFC fans across the country?

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Was just reading this on The Mirror and it got me thinking about if it would have any actual impact on NCFC fans across the country who go to the pub or stay home to watch The Canaries if they can''t go to the match.

 

There''s been a feel good vibe around the city for the last 4 years and with the ability of pubs to show ALL games over the last two years, there are noticably more and more Norwich fans out and about the city on away days.

 

Is this injunction against one provider the start of a turn in the tides, or is it just another feeble attempt to stop the unstoppable?

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-obtains-high-court-2057365

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"The judge said that, although FirstRow had stated it would accept

takedown notices, "the address given turns out to be fictitious".

I think the genie is out of the bottle.Rather like the drugs trade. As long as there is a demand there will be a supply.How readily available it is, will also be much the same.Next seasons viewers may be ''inconvenienced'' but that is about all.I think the PL is aggrieved more that they are making money out of it than that they are showing it.

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The only way it will be stopped is when the ISPs have enough pressure put upon them to do something about it - it would be fairly easy to block their customers from these sites.

 

The fact that one the UKs major ISPs now has the rights to Premier League football games might mean they at least feel more inclinded to do something about it.

 

I guess no one really knows if it will be possible or not to stream games until 3pm on 17th August - then it will become pretty obvious if things have changed or not.

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There will always be a way around it.

Getting access to it by somehow hiding your IP address, or using some other website.

UK ISPs blocked various torrent sites (Pirate Bay etc.) and there are still very easy ways to get around the block.

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You cannot stop the internet, if its available somewhere it''s available anywhere.

Pirates supply to a demand, the PL needs to allow a legitimate source to these games and work out a viable financial model as that is the only logical outcome.

You can''t really fight the pirates either, they are just pissing in the wind and failing to learn the lessons the film, game and music industry learnt the hard way.

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Can''t see it happening, there''s always a way round it.  Premier League getting arsey as they aren''t getting a cut from it and I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.  Greed greed greed.

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There was a separate judgement on pubs using foreign (eu only though) broadcasters boxes which means they will be here to stay (until the PL sell european wide broadcast deals).

WRT the internet there is one easy way to stop the streams. That is provide good, cheap, reliable PPV streams. If it cost 2-3 quid to watch matches people would stop with the dodgy streams.

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 [quote user="DrDublin"]Can''t see it happening, there''s always a way round it.  Premier League getting arsey as they aren''t getting a cut from it and I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.  Greed greed greed.[/quote]The way round it is for Sky to offer streaming on every premiership match themselves, online at a fee of say five or six pounds.  I would pay that if the quality of the picture and service was good.   Better than frabbing around trying to find a decent stream on some dodgy website.    They probably won''t do that as they will think it will stop lots of people taking out their monthly subscriptions, but I already stopped mine because there is no live service of NCFC, except for the odd match.

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LDC: they won''t do that because they do not have the licence to do it. it is up to the PL to sell the rights to live online streams to all matches. but they won''t at the moment as they are very protective of the saturday 3pm slot and they won''t reduce the value of the TV matches by allowing the selling of a live stream. it may be the next tv deal (starting 2016/17) or the one following that (starting 2019/20) before the tv and internet markets have changed enough to allow it to happen.

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Much will depend on who feels they are losing the mostClubs - as fans may simply stay at home rather that buy tickets - however they still get the TV money which dwarfs any loss in ticket income.Sky/B -  as they may see subscriptions drop as fans realise that they can watch games for free, albeit not in high quality PL - who may see any possible drop in subscription income reflected in the price broadcasters will pay in the next round of rights sale.

For the moment PL will have to be seen to do the right thing to justify the price they have been paid.

The moot point is are those fans who watch the games on live stream fans who would have either taken out a subscription or paid to go to games. My experience is that many are neither, so the clubs and the broadcasters are not actually losing money ......

.... more losing faceAnd that can often cause more upset than actually losing money.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

The only way it will be stopped is when the ISPs have enough pressure put upon them to do something about it - it would be fairly easy to block their customers from these sites.

The fact that one the UKs major ISPs now has the rights to Premier League football games might mean they at least feel more inclinded to do something about it.

I guess no one really knows if it will be possible or not to stream games until 3pm on 17th August - then it will become pretty obvious if things have changed or not.

[/quote]
All that will happen then is that streaming sites would move to the .onion thing and we will all have to install the Tor browser. At least then it the ''second web'' would serve a purpose to people other than druggies and terrorists. 

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"The moot point is are those fans who watch the games on live stream fans who would have either taken out a subscription or paid to go to games. My experience is that many are neither, so the clubs and the broadcasters are not actually losing money ......"

Of course they are losing money City1st, theres service being provided out there for free. If PL (or Sky/BT/Whoever was given the rights) was to show high quality streams and charge people they would make a hefty profit plus additional advertising revenue.

Some people are always going to want something for nothing, but I''ll warrant theres a large market for those who want quality and are prepared to pay.

Itunes (Music/Movies), Netflix/Lovefilm (Movie/Tv Rentals), Steam/PSN/XboxLive (Games) - all of these services have appeared in response to pirates pioneering the way to use the internet, and have also evolved (removed DRM, improved services) in response to pirating as well.

The PL are being incredibly naive and backward, especially when you consider other major sports (Most notably NFL) allow this system and are raking in the profits. They''ll come around eventually when they realise the potential revenue they are missing out on, not because people aren''t going to grounds or subscribing to Sky, but because people aren''t being offered the service they want and would be prepared to pay for.

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[quote user="Monty13"]"The moot point is are those fans who watch the games on live stream fans who would have either taken out a subscription or paid to go to games. My experience is that many are neither, so the clubs and the broadcasters are not actually losing money ......"

Of course they are losing money City1st, theres service being provided out there for free. If PL (or Sky/BT/Whoever was given the rights) was to show high quality streams and charge people they would make a hefty profit plus additional advertising revenue.

Some people are always going to want something for nothing, but I''ll warrant theres a large market for those who want quality and are prepared to pay.

Itunes (Music/Movies), Netflix/Lovefilm (Movie/Tv Rentals), Steam/PSN/XboxLive (Games) - all of these services have appeared in response to pirates pioneering the way to use the internet, and have also evolved (removed DRM, improved services) in response to pirating as well.

The PL are being incredibly naive and backward, especially when you consider other major sports (Most notably NFL) allow this system and are raking in the profits. They''ll come around eventually when they realise the potential revenue they are missing out on, not because people aren''t going to grounds or subscribing to Sky, but because people aren''t being offered the service they want and would be prepared to pay for.[/quote]
Agree completely with this. Allow people to pay a modest sum of money to watch the games that they pick and choose online or through a console, and they won''t even bother with poor quality streams on sites with pop up ads.
The only games that I wish to watch are Norwich away games, about 19 a year, minus one or two that I actually end up going to. Why not charge me a a small sum each time I wish to watch one of those games, instead of asking me to subscribe to a service which will show me only a handful of those games and otherwise only offer me games featuring teams that I have no interest in watching.
I would pay probably a fiver a game to watch every Norwich away game on my TV or laptop with no ad interrupts. That is £80-90 that they don''t currently get from me. Last season I watched 16 games on stream, went to 2 live, and couldn''t find a stream for another. 

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[quote user="TheNewBoy"][quote user="Monty13"]"The moot point is are those fans who watch the games on live stream fans who would have either taken out a subscription or paid to go to games. My experience is that many are neither, so the clubs and the broadcasters are not actually losing money ......"

Of course they are losing money City1st, theres service being provided out there for free. If PL (or Sky/BT/Whoever was given the rights) was to show high quality streams and charge people they would make a hefty profit plus additional advertising revenue.

Some people are always going to want something for nothing, but I''ll warrant theres a large market for those who want quality and are prepared to pay.

Itunes (Music/Movies), Netflix/Lovefilm (Movie/Tv Rentals), Steam/PSN/XboxLive (Games) - all of these services have appeared in response to pirates pioneering the way to use the internet, and have also evolved (removed DRM, improved services) in response to pirating as well.

The PL are being incredibly naive and backward, especially when you consider other major sports (Most notably NFL) allow this system and are raking in the profits. They''ll come around eventually when they realise the potential revenue they are missing out on, not because people aren''t going to grounds or subscribing to Sky, but because people aren''t being offered the service they want and would be prepared to pay for.[/quote]
Agree completely with this. Allow people to pay a modest sum of money to watch the games that they pick and choose online or through a console, and they won''t even bother with poor quality streams on sites with pop up ads.
The only games that I wish to watch are Norwich away games, about 19 a year, minus one or two that I actually end up going to. Why not charge me a a small sum each time I wish to watch one of those games, instead of asking me to subscribe to a service which will show me only a handful of those games and otherwise only offer me games featuring teams that I have no interest in watching.
I would pay probably a fiver a game to watch every Norwich away game on my TV or laptop with no ad interrupts. That is £80-90 that they don''t currently get from me. Last season I watched 16 games on stream, went to 2 live, and couldn''t find a stream for another. 
[/quote]
For fans that don''t go to away games, that is potentially £5 x 38 = £190.  
Probably make more money that way. I''m not signing up to Sky Sports to watch Man Utd and Liverpool every week. 

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It''s not just the internet streams.  There are those satellite boxes where you apparently pay about £140 - £150 for the box, initial set up and first year then pay about £50 - £60 a YEAR after that and you get every Sky channel available.  They are run by crims from a server somewhere and as you can imagine, Sky aren''t too happy about it.

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[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]

It''s not just the internet streams.  There are those satellite boxes where you apparently pay about £140 - £150 for the box, initial set up and first year then pay about £50 - £60 a YEAR after that and you get every Sky channel available.  They are run by crims from a server somewhere and as you can imagine, Sky aren''t too happy about it.

[/quote]
I was under the impression that what you actually get is a subscription to Greek cable, which the high court ruled as completely legal as Greece is an EU country and the EU is a single market.

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[quote user="TheNewBoy"][quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]

It''s not just the internet streams.  There are those satellite boxes where you apparently pay about £140 - £150 for the box, initial set up and first year then pay about £50 - £60 a YEAR after that and you get every Sky channel available.  They are run by crims from a server somewhere and as you can imagine, Sky aren''t too happy about it.

[/quote]
I was under the impression that what you actually get is a subscription to Greek cable, which the high court ruled as completely legal as Greece is an EU country and the EU is a single market.
[/quote]
Or something like that anyway...

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[quote user="Monty13"]"The moot point is are those fans who watch the games on live stream fans who would have either taken out a subscription or paid to go to games. My experience is that many are neither, so the clubs and the broadcasters are not actually losing money ......"

Of course they are losing money City1st, theres service being provided out there for free. If PL (or Sky/BT/Whoever was given the rights) was to show high quality streams and charge people they would make a hefty profit plus additional advertising revenue.

Some people are always going to want something for nothing, but I''ll warrant theres a large market for those who want quality and are prepared to pay.

Itunes (Music/Movies), Netflix/Lovefilm (Movie/Tv Rentals), Steam/PSN/XboxLive (Games) - all of these services have appeared in response to pirates pioneering the way to use the internet, and have also evolved (removed DRM, improved services) in response to pirating as well.

The PL are being incredibly naive and backward, especially when you consider other major sports (Most notably NFL) allow this system and are raking in the profits. They''ll come around eventually when they realise the potential revenue they are missing out on, not because people aren''t going to grounds or subscribing to Sky, but because people aren''t being offered the service they want and would be prepared to pay for.[/quote]

I''m afraid taht doesn''t stack up at all Monty.As said, the reason some folk are watching the games for free is because .................. they are free. Sure it could be claimed that there is a market for folk to pay a small amount to watch certain games ie City away but that is totally impractical and would destroy the whole concept of selling subscriptions as a package.  I doubt with the way Sky and BT  are funding their purchase of the rights they would last galf the season before posting such huge losses that the lot would collapse.There is also the problem of showing live games at 3pm. My understanding is taht there is far greater pressure than a simple ''gentlemesn''s agreement'' not to show live football at 3pm.And as said before I doubt the PLare too bothered, they are raking in huge sums from the sale of the rights and would not give up that to try and exist on penny packet individual deals.If somebody wants to stand outside a concert and listen to it for free you are not going to get them to pay for it by offering them a discount. Any discount would also then have to be offered to the rest ... cue massive drop in income. this is the big flaw behind the ground expansion nonsense. Demand is not static with regard to price - and I doubt it ever has been or will be.

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[quote user="TheNewBoy"]
The only games that I wish to watch are Norwich away games, about 19 a year, minus one or two that I actually end up going to. Why not charge me a a small sum each time I wish to watch one of those games, instead of asking me to subscribe to a service which will show me only a handful of those games and otherwise only offer me games featuring teams that I have no interest in watching.

[/quote]

 

Why should a commercial company do that? Which bit of capitalism do you not understand?

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="TheNewBoy"]
The only games that I wish to watch are Norwich away games, about 19 a year, minus one or two that I actually end up going to. Why not charge me a a small sum each time I wish to watch one of those games, instead of asking me to subscribe to a service which will show me only a handful of those games and otherwise only offer me games featuring teams that I have no interest in watching.

[/quote]

Why should a commercial company do that? Which bit of capitalism do you not understand?

[/quote]
Why would a commercial company sell me something for £100 which I currently get for £0? I don''t know PurpleCanary, you tell me.  
Pay-per-view works just fine for boxing. 

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[quote user="TheNewBoy"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="TheNewBoy"]
The only games that I wish to watch are Norwich away games, about 19 a year, minus one or two that I actually end up going to. Why not charge me a a small sum each time I wish to watch one of those games, instead of asking me to subscribe to a service which will show me only a handful of those games and otherwise only offer me games featuring teams that I have no interest in watching.

[/quote]

Why should a commercial company do that? Which bit of capitalism do you not understand?

[/quote]
Why would a commercial company sell me something for £100 which I currently get for £0? I don''t know PurpleCanary, you tell me.  
Pay-per-view works just fine for boxing. 

[/quote]

 

Er, because as I understand it you are not entirely happy with the service you get for £0, otherwise you wouldn''t be willing to pay for something better. But then what you want is some company to provide you with a custom-made service that fits just your desires and potentially no-one else''s and for a small amount of money. That  is where you are failing to grasp one of the essentials of capitalism. The more bespoke and individual the service the higher the cost.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="TheNewBoy"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="TheNewBoy"]
The only games that I wish to watch are Norwich away games, about 19 a year, minus one or two that I actually end up going to. Why not charge me a a small sum each time I wish to watch one of those games, instead of asking me to subscribe to a service which will show me only a handful of those games and otherwise only offer me games featuring teams that I have no interest in watching.

[/quote]

Why should a commercial company do that? Which bit of capitalism do you not understand?

[/quote]
Why would a commercial company sell me something for £100 which I currently get for £0? I don''t know PurpleCanary, you tell me.  
Pay-per-view works just fine for boxing. 

[/quote]

 

Er, because as I understand it you are not entirely happy with the service you get for £0, otherwise you wouldn''t be willing to pay for something better. But then what you want is some company to provide you with a custom-made service that fits just your desires and potentially no-one else''s and for a small amount of money. That  is where you are failing to grasp one of the essentials of capitalism. The more bespoke and individual the service the higher the cost.

[/quote]
I knew that you were going to mention the cost. Where your argument falls down there is that I already watch every one of these games, they are already being filmed by cameras, and the majority are being broadcast in another country by a channel owned by News Corporation. They are already paying for the production, which I am taking for £0. 
There need not be additional cost. I don''t require commentary. I would watch half time adverts.. The demand is there, believe you me. A professional quality broadcast with no pop up ads, no crashing or freezing or lag, plenty of people would pay for that. We take 2000 fans to away games typically. 20000 season ticket holders remain at home. 
Where this would work even better is with commercial licenses. If pubs in Norwich could purchase a ''Norwich package'', and pubs in Liverpool could purchase a ''Liverpool package'', and pubs in Newcastle could purchase a ''Newcastle package'', then perhaps Sky would start selling into that lucrative market again. 
And if Sky think that this is such a bad idea, then why are they beginning to trial this very system? http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/sky-make-premier-league-matches-available-on-payperview-8475243.html
Doesn''t Rupert Murdoch understand capitalism? Like me? 

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[quote user="Monty13"]"If PL (or Sky/BT/Whoever was given the rights) was to show high quality streams and charge people they would make a hefty profit plus additional advertising revenue.

Some people are always going to want something for nothing, but I''ll warrant theres a large market for those who want quality and are prepared to pay.[/quote]
Definitely. Streams are very low quality and unreliable. Enough people would pay a reasonable cost to watch a high quality alternative and thankfully Sky are beginning to wake up and evolve. 

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dearie lord meit''s hard to believe that this is not one of the better windups and this is all some glorious spoof of a complete idiotbut no, the eality is that he is as dim as the posts would have you believe.

"We take 2000 fans to away games typically. 20000 season ticket holders remain at home"Yes, and unable to watch the majority of the away games legally because they are PLAYED AT 3PM on a Saturday after noon. The games that are not, have been moved to so as to be .................................broadcast live. So it matters little what package is sold,  those games cannot be legally broadcast to UK consumers.Otherwise it would be pointless trying to explain the obvious flaws in your ridiculous old tosh about selling individual club deals so I shan''t bother - but I will suggest you to get your head out of Murdoch''s backside long enough to tell us how much he lost on buying Myspace.And also suggest you go back to being Tom Cavendish with his crackpot plans to have students growing peppercorns at the show ground whilst teaching City players at Norwich airport - with no cost to anyone and a huge profit for the university and the council ... ............... and a new stadium built on a flyover above the Northern ring road which would therefore cost nothing and provide an excellent ride and ride system to the ground.

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[quote user="City1st"]dearie lord meit''s hard to believe that this is not one of the better windups and this is all some glorious spoof of a complete idiotbut no, the eality is that he is as dim as the posts would have you believe.

"We take 2000 fans to away games typically. 20000 season ticket holders remain at home"Yes, and unable to watch the majority of the away games legally because they are PLAYED AT 3PM on a Saturday after noon. The games that are not, have been moved to so as to be .................................broadcast live. So it matters little what package is sold,  those games cannot be legally broadcast to UK consumers.Otherwise it would be pointless trying to explain the obvious flaws in your ridiculous old tosh about selling individual club deals so I shan''t bother - but I will suggest you to get your head out of Murdoch''s backside long enough to tell us how much he lost on buying Myspace.And also suggest you go back to being Tom Cavendish with his crackpot plans to have students growing peppercorns at the show ground whilst teaching City players at Norwich airport - with no cost to anyone and a huge profit for the university and the council ... ............... and a new stadium built on a flyover above the Northern ring road which would therefore cost nothing and provide an excellent ride and ride system to the ground.[/quote]
A 3pm blackout which doesn''t exist in Germany, a nation which has the best domestic attendances of any country in the world and five of the ten best supported clubs in Europe. 
A 3pm blackout which the EU commission found had absolutely no positive effect on attendances. 
An ancient outdated law which serves no purpose anymore. A dinosaur, just like you lot who can''t see how the internet has completely changed the marketplace. 
No idea what the rest of your mundane twaddle was supposed to mean, read it twice and didn''t understand a word. 

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[quote user="TheNewBoy"][quote user="TheNewBoy"][quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]

It''s not just the internet streams.  There are those satellite boxes where you apparently pay about £140 - £150 for the box, initial set up and first year then pay about £50 - £60 a YEAR after that and you get every Sky channel available.  They are run by crims from a server somewhere and as you can imagine, Sky aren''t too happy about it.

[/quote]


I was under the impression that what you actually get is a subscription to Greek cable, which the high court ruled as completely legal as Greece is an EU country and the EU is a single market.
[/quote]


Or something like that anyway...

[/quote]

 

No, these ones are nothing to do with Greece.  You get ALL of the UK Sky channels possible, movies, sport, HD, naughty, etc.

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[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"][quote user="TheNewBoy"][quote user="TheNewBoy"][quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]

It''s not just the internet streams.  There are those satellite boxes where you apparently pay about £140 - £150 for the box, initial set up and first year then pay about £50 - £60 a YEAR after that and you get every Sky channel available.  They are run by crims from a server somewhere and as you can imagine, Sky aren''t too happy about it.

[/quote]

I was under the impression that what you actually get is a subscription to Greek cable, which the high court ruled as completely legal as Greece is an EU country and the EU is a single market.
[/quote]

Or something like that anyway...

[/quote]

No, these ones are nothing to do with Greece.  You get ALL of the UK Sky channels possible, movies, sport, HD, naughty, etc.

[/quote]
Sounds a bit dodgy then. A lot of pubs were buying satellite boxes from some European country which had all the Premier League games for next to nothing, but that was found to be legal. Think it was Greece, it was somewhere like that. 

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