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R Mellie

Sepp Blatter - still time to move 2022 World Cup to the Winter

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There is a simple solution: Greenland should co-host the event. That would take care of the average temperature of the tournament, and there''s still plenty of time to build the (heated) stadiums in Greenland.

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[quote user="Kingston Yellow"]No offence New Boy but we''re splitting hairs. The UAE have qualified for one World Cup Finals ever, where they lost all their 3 games.[/quote]
Yes but Qatar isn''t really World Cup Qatar 2022, it is World Cup Middle East 2022. It is about the entire region, including Dubai, Abu Dabia, Oman, and anywhere else that happens to have nice hotels, airports, and is safe for white foreigners.
If I go, then I''ll be going to Dubai and flying in for games. Saudi Arabia and Turkey are also in that region, both have offered a fair bit to football, particularly Turkey. 
Africa had its first world cup in 2010. It is just wrong to have a ''world'' cup and host it in the same three continents all the time. Qatar themselves have never qualified for the World Cup, but they hosted the 2011 Asian games successfully and already have most of the necessary infrastructure in place.
Don''t see a problem with the location, although should have been a Qatar + UAE + Oman world cup, not a Qatar world cup, I only see a problem with corruption. That''s been going on for years though. 

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1 - Would Qatar qualify for a World Cup based on footballing merits? Simply no. Bought their way into a prestige final at the cost of a team that could put a credible squad out.

2 - 2014 World Cup in Brazil, on the equator, no problem. 2010 in South Africa, no problem. Move it to hotter/arid climate and then decide it''s too hot play = massive farce!

You can talk about bribes/under handedness for other countries but this one has always stuck out like a sore thumb. One moment it''s about players welfare, then that''s taken care of with indoor stadiums, then it''s the fans, then it''s fans not the issues but the players in the build up/training.

It''s not been thought through, it shouldn''t of happened and that World Cup will cause a massive divide in the game.

The thing is, Blatter will be long gone from FIFA by the time it happens, sitting in Barbados earning 20%.

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In answer to TNB''s questions...

Have I ever gone and watched any of the local teams?  The only live match I have attended was the UAE vs Oman a few years ago, it was a qualifiying game for a tournament and the ground was packed, I would guess that particular ground would be comfortable with 15,000 in it and I understand there were something like 30,000 for that game and the place was pumping. As for the league games, I do know a couple of people who have been to see matches involving teams called Al Ain and Al Wasl, these are two of the, shall we say "bigger" clubs, they certainly enjoyed the experience but it is clearly very different to watching in England. Also, many matches from the UAE league are live on TV and by looking at these I would say that attendances are limited, and yes they are small compared to the bigger football nations, often it does look like there are only 2 to 3 thousand in the grounds, sometimes significantly more for the bigger games and sometimes less. BUT, to put things into perspective, lets not forget that from a population of around 8 million it is estimated that only 9% are UAE nationals, which is way under 1 million locals and the UAE "Etisalat Pro-league" has 14 professional teams, then attendances (considering its 99% locals who go to the games currently) will be limited....particular with the games live on TV.

Your concern regarding policing........first of all my understanding is that Qatar, whilst not so strict as Saudi, is stricter on behaviour than the UAE, although things vary between each of the Emirates, with Dubai actually being the most shall we say "tolerant". So, I can only really give an answer based on my better knowledge of Dubai.  Sure, an "idiot" who gets out of his head and then starts falling over outside will most probably end up in jail and deported, but this certainly doesnt mean that you cant have a good drink and party in Dubai (under statement, Dubai is a place where people do extreme partying), you just need to be aware of the situation, how tolerant the place is and behave accordingly.  Unfortunately, some of the british media have a big downer on the UAE, in particular Dubai, and only focus on the negative stories, like a couple having sex on the beach or on the back seat of a taxi (which both acts I am not sure are acceptable in the UK either) or somebody falling off a balcony, when in fact overall this country has a great deal going for it and treats its visitors generally very well as long as you behave yourself...........unfortunately, I have to say that it is often the British visitors and some British ex-pats that ARE the idiots, and thats not just the English I must add.

Trust I answered your questions adequately, OTBC

               

 

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I wonder why Bethnal doesn''t answer some of the points put to him? Perhaps the media were ''taken care of'' as well?

Are women allowed to attend football matches in the Middle East? Will female football supporters from foreign countries have the same rights as their male counterparts during the World Cup 2022?

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Blatter remains where he is because the ''FIFA family'' continue to support him in for their own financial benefit. Representatives from the smaller nations can pocket their brown envelopes in return for their votes and continue to enjoy their ride in the FIFA gravy train. 

When David Bernstein criticised the one candidate ballot that saw Blatter re-elected immediate support for Blatter and the FIFA family (and condemnation of The English FA) came from representatives of footballing powerhouses such as Haiti, Congo, Benin, Fiji and Cyprus (and of course Argentina, whose representative said they would never support an English bid/motion until we give them the Falkland Islands!).

The whole organisation is rotten to the core.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jun/01/sepp-blatter-fifa-president-reforms

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[quote user="Rock The Boat"]

I wonder why Bethnal doesn''t answer some of the points put to him? Perhaps the media were ''taken care of'' as well?

Are women allowed to attend football matches in the Middle East? Will female football supporters from foreign countries have the same rights as their male counterparts during the World Cup 2022?

[/quote]

 

I haven''t answer because I have been busy;

 

Yes of course the question was asked, and everyone was told this idea of air conditioned stadiums and fan areas (even this idea of man made clouds to provide shade). Whilst all sounding very fantastical, this was after China had used methods to adapt weather conditions for the 2008 Beijing Olympics and many experts were rolled out to tell everyone how possible this all was.

 

It is worth remembering that at the time Qatar was seen as a little bit of a joke entry, they were seen to be testing the water to see if there might be support for a tournament there in the future. However, as the bidding process came towards the end the Qatar bid team massively upped their game, whilst everyone else bidding for 2022 were starting to waiver in their commitment. The final decision was made in December 2010, a time at which many countries were really suffering from the effects of the economic downturn - Indonesia and Mexico both pulled out do to funding problems, Japan''s bid was hinged on them winning the Tokyo 2016 Olympics and sharing facilities (they didn''t win the Olympic bid obviously), Australia had massive in-fighting problems around Aussie rules football, America starting hinting that the Government wasn''t fully behind the idea of massive infrastructure spending and that existing stadiums might be used (a big no-no for FIFA who like brand new stadiums for the World Cup). At the moment when everyone else was waivering on their bids and not answering questions straight, Qatar were pushing ahead and sounding very confident - and most pleasing of all to many FIFA members (most of whom are not corrupt or open to bribes) they had the cash and were willing to spend it on a World Cup. It is also worth remembering the allegations of corruption and bribery were withdrawn by the ''whistleblower'' who later admitted she had made them up.

 

The biggest mistake FIFA made was allowing people to bid for a World Cup 12 years away, it meant no one could talk in definites about the plans and there were too many variables, Qatar was the only nation that could commit in definite terms. It allowed some bids to have massive holes in their plans with the excuse ''we have 12 years to figure it out''. Another problem was when Russia pulled out of 2022, they were most members preffered country for 2022 - whilst Portugal/Spain or England would have won 2018.

 

Yes women will be allowed to attend games, Qatar is making great efforts to improve women''s rights. The country is also prepared to suspend drinking laws for the duration of the World Cup.

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BUT.....the bottom line, aside of all the history and reasons why it was awarded........is that in this instance Sepp Blatter is unusually actually 100% correct, this World Cup must move to the Winter to work, regardless of the inconvenience this may cause having to reschedule two or three seasons around 2022 to accomodate it. 

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[quote user="Old Shuck"]

 

Holding it in the Winter will disrupt playing seasons for something like ten weeks or more-two weeks preparation, four weeks tournament, two weeks recovery time. How about the nations that don''t qualify? You normally get at least one large UEFA nation and one from South America who don''t qualify-are they meant to cancel their domestic seasons to help facilitate a tournament that those associations has no interest in? Then there will be a knock on effect for the preceding and succeeding seasons-in other words, Blatter''s nice big earner is, for the sake of him hauling his carcass in front of the worlds TV cameras for a few weeks, going to affect domestic football and the players all over the world-not just in Europe.

 

[/quote]

 

why does the season need to stop? Not every single player will be at the world cup. I am sure the pointless Chelsea and Liverpool Youth set ups might actually jump at the chance of being given a go in the team too.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"][quote user="Rock The Boat"]

I wonder why Bethnal doesn''t answer some of the points put to him? Perhaps the media were ''taken care of'' as well?

Are women allowed to attend football matches in the Middle East? Will female football supporters from foreign countries have the same rights as their male counterparts during the World Cup 2022?

[/quote]

Yes women will be allowed to attend games, Qatar is making great efforts to improve women''s rights. The country is also prepared to suspend drinking laws for the duration of the World Cup.

[/quote]
The government may be, but what about the inhabitants of Qatar and the neighbouring? Potential for civil unrest or even worse, terrorism? Saudi Arabia is next door, birthplace of most of the 9/11 hijackers, and Osama Bin Laden, and the most lucrative source of funds for extremist organisations. There is a lot of instability in that region. Easy to say "Qatar is safe" or "UAE is safe", but nobody five years ago would have predicted the scale of problems currently being seen in Egypt or Turkey, both typically liberal countries with huge tourism industries. That should be the biggest concern. 

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="Old Shuck"]

 

Holding it in the Winter will disrupt playing seasons for something like ten weeks or more-two weeks preparation, four weeks tournament, two weeks recovery time. How about the nations that don''t qualify? You normally get at least one large UEFA nation and one from South America who don''t qualify-are they meant to cancel their domestic seasons to help facilitate a tournament that those associations has no interest in? Then there will be a knock on effect for the preceding and succeeding seasons-in other words, Blatter''s nice big earner is, for the sake of him hauling his carcass in front of the worlds TV cameras for a few weeks, going to affect domestic football and the players all over the world-not just in Europe.

 

[/quote]

 

why does the season need to stop? Not every single player will be at the world cup. I am sure the pointless Chelsea and Liverpool Youth set ups might actually jump at the chance of being given a go in the team too.

[/quote]
It''s not fair if a team with 8 players at the world cup has to play a team with 1 player at the world cup. 

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[quote user="The New Boy"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"][quote user="Rock The Boat"]

I wonder why Bethnal doesn''t answer some of the points put to him? Perhaps the media were ''taken care of'' as well?

Are women allowed to attend football matches in the Middle East? Will female football supporters from foreign countries have the same rights as their male counterparts during the World Cup 2022?

[/quote]

Yes women will be allowed to attend games, Qatar is making great efforts to improve women''s rights. The country is also prepared to suspend drinking laws for the duration of the World Cup.

[/quote]


The government may be, but what about the inhabitants of Qatar and the neighbouring? Potential for civil unrest or even worse, terrorism? Saudi Arabia is next door, birthplace of most of the 9/11 hijackers, and Osama Bin Laden, and the most lucrative source of funds for extremist organisations. There is a lot of instability in that region. Easy to say "Qatar is safe" or "UAE is safe", but nobody five years ago would have predicted the scale of problems currently being seen in Egypt or Turkey, both typically liberal countries with huge tourism industries. That should be the biggest concern. 

[/quote]

The 7/7 bombers were all British born but there were no issues at the Olympics.

 

For the modern mega-event security is always an issue, being in Qatar doesn''t really change this,  

 

I was in Turkey recently during the riots and even going to Taksim square and speaking to the protestors - whilst it looked very dramatic on TV I never felt in particular danger, although was teargassed a bit, the second time in as many months after being caught up in the protests in Brazil. Actually the Brazilan protests were much more out of control than Turkey and I can only imagine they will be even larger once the World Cup and Olympics actually come into town.

 

What these protests are showing (the ones in Istanbul were starting to show some anti-Olympic messages) is that it is becoming harder and harder for countries to host such expensive global events. Which will probably mean more countries like Qatar, who have massive money reserves, being able to win bids as organisations know there will be no local protest. I was in Doha for part of the AFC Cup in 2011 and whilst it didn''t obviously have the global attention of something like the World Cup, locals were very enganged with the tournament and embracing it, as well as the supporters from around the world.

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Doesnt the rugby union season carry on regardless of internationals?  another example of wet lettuce moaning footballers... ;-)

 

As has been pointed out summer tournaments have been held in many hot countries and climates - so this feels like a convenient excuse - the alternative is all world cups are held in temperate zones only - giving teams from hotter or colder climates a disadvantage every time.  Humans have an ability to adapt and with sensible precautions this will be a successful world cup bring football to a new area of the world.

 

Playing the daily mail-esque scare stories around alcohol, temperature, religion, women,  terrorism just leaves me lost for words at the ignorance and intolerance in our society. 

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As for civil disorder we had our own riots not so long ago, and london police frequently kettle to control flash points - is that any safer?  many other european cities face similar issues - but they are proportionately reported and reflected upon.. 

 

These can be managed and the risk is pretty similar in each venue - as Bethnal as described with his personal experiences.

 

 

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[quote user="The New Boy"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="Old Shuck"]

 

Holding it in the Winter will disrupt playing seasons for something like ten weeks or more-two weeks preparation, four weeks tournament, two weeks recovery time. How about the nations that don''t qualify? You normally get at least one large UEFA nation and one from South America who don''t qualify-are they meant to cancel their domestic seasons to help facilitate a tournament that those associations has no interest in? Then there will be a knock on effect for the preceding and succeeding seasons-in other words, Blatter''s nice big earner is, for the sake of him hauling his carcass in front of the worlds TV cameras for a few weeks, going to affect domestic football and the players all over the world-not just in Europe.

 

[/quote]

 

why does the season need to stop? Not every single player will be at the world cup. I am sure the pointless Chelsea and Liverpool Youth set ups might actually jump at the chance of being given a go in the team too.

[/quote]
It''s not fair if a team with 8 players at the world cup has to play a team with 1 player at the world cup. 
[/quote]

Those games could be postponed and others brought forward to avoid massive backlog. Alternatively, when sorting out fixtures for the season a best-guess of the likely WC squads could allow the fixture computer program to organise fixtures accordingly, just as fixtures are currently manipulated for various reasons every season.  No big deal IMO.

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[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="The New Boy"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="Old Shuck"]

 

Holding it in the Winter will disrupt playing seasons for something like ten weeks or more-two weeks preparation, four weeks tournament, two weeks recovery time. How about the nations that don''t qualify? You normally get at least one large UEFA nation and one from South America who don''t qualify-are they meant to cancel their domestic seasons to help facilitate a tournament that those associations has no interest in? Then there will be a knock on effect for the preceding and succeeding seasons-in other words, Blatter''s nice big earner is, for the sake of him hauling his carcass in front of the worlds TV cameras for a few weeks, going to affect domestic football and the players all over the world-not just in Europe.

 

[/quote]

 

why does the season need to stop? Not every single player will be at the world cup. I am sure the pointless Chelsea and Liverpool Youth set ups might actually jump at the chance of being given a go in the team too.

[/quote]
It''s not fair if a team with 8 players at the world cup has to play a team with 1 player at the world cup. 
[/quote]

Those games could be postponed and others brought forward to avoid massive backlog. Alternatively, when sorting out fixtures for the season a best-guess of the likely WC squads could allow the fixture computer program to organise fixtures accordingly, just as fixtures are currently manipulated for various reasons every season.  No big deal IMO. [/quote]
Can''t see why we can''t just suspend the season for one month and end it one month late. Sounds simple to me. Will be a long and tough season, but perhaps the FA could simply allow clubs to register 30 players for a season or two. Don''t see why we have to do anything drastic, we already have to deal with the African cup of nations, and players involved in world cups extend their season by a month anyway. 
I would like to see a ban on active footballers taking punditry and commentary jobs for the tournament though, that should be the reserve of former players. 

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Realistically the Premier League would have to be stopped for 6 weeks in the winter, which shouldn''t be so hard and by 2022 I wouldn''t be surprised if changing weather patterns have forced a winter break into the English game anyway.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Realistically the Premier League would have to be stopped for 6 weeks in the winter, which shouldn''t be so hard and by 2022 I wouldn''t be surprised if changing weather patterns have forced a winter break into the English game anyway.[/quote]
Judging by the weather we are having now, it might be the summers which cause us more of a problem than the winter. 

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]Forget moving it to winter, move it altogether. The fact it is in Qatar in the first place is a joke. If they really want to sell football to the middle east, i''d rather somewhere like Iran or India got it. There''s a few bigwigs in the game laughing all the way to the bank as a result of this while Qatar go about building the stadiums with poor building regulations and workers rights. I feel this will be known as the blood world cup.[/quote]

 

That is an interesting take on geography you have there.

 

By saying Qatar can''t have the world cup because it is too hot rules out a huge number of places in the world from every hosting a world cup. I did a lot of work on the coverage of the 2022 World Cup bid and to be honest, Qatar''s bid was by far the best - the other countries were incredibly sloppy and some didn''t have their respective Government''s backing the bid (a big no-no when it comes to mega-events).

 

The building regulation and workers rights are of course an issue (although the same problem was had for other world cups and Olympics)

 

Personally I think it is important that their is a world cup in the middle east, but for obvious reasons it can''t be in places such as Iran, Qatar has held other major sporting events well (nothing on the scale of the World Cup of course) and they will be able to deliver the World Cup - they still stick by the idea of air conditioned stadiums and fan areas. It''s worth remembering that during USA 94 temperatures on the pitches reached the mid 40s and in Japan they reached 41 with around 80% humidity.

[/quote]

And in the evening it gets cooler so why not play under flood lights Or this to stupid an idea

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Realistically the Premier League would have to be stopped for 6 weeks in the winter, which shouldn''t be so hard and by 2022 I wouldn''t be surprised if changing weather patterns have forced a winter break into the English game anyway.[/quote]

 

That would mean just one week before the tournament and one week after. I cannot see that is feasible. The break would have to be some weeks longer. Blatter is an astute politician (which is how he got and stayed where he is) but I''m nore surer he will get his way on this. There are some powerful commercial forces in Europe that are opposed, and I would be interested to know what the non-European football federations think of a switch to the winter. My guess (it is only a guess) is that the hot-country nations, such as the South Americans, would be happy to play in the Qatar summer. Rather as they were when the tournament was staged in Mexico in 1970, with games often in the middle of the day (so the hottest part) and with some at altitude.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Realistically the Premier League would have to be stopped for 6 weeks in the winter, which shouldn''t be so hard and by 2022 I wouldn''t be surprised if changing weather patterns have forced a winter break into the English game anyway.[/quote]

 

That would mean just one week before the tournament and one week after. I cannot see that is feasible. The break would have to be some weeks longer.

Blatter is an astute politician (which is how he got and stayed where he is) but I''m nore surer he will get his way on this. There are some powerful commercial forces in Europe that are opposed, and I would be interested to know what the non-European football federations think of a switch to the winter. My guess (it is only a guess) is that the hot-country nations, such as the South Americans, would be happy to play in the Qatar summer. Rather as they were when the tournament was staged in Mexico in 1970, with games often in the middle of the day (so the hottest part) and with some at altitude.

[/quote]

 

I only think there would need to be a one week break afterwards, especially as only 4 teams are involved right until the end. You can work a 13 day break before the tournament and only lose 1 matchday fixture from the league calendar - players would leave for the World Cup straight after a league fixture. For example (using the 2014 World Cup dates), the tournaments starts on June 14th, you allow the league to play May 31st but cancel games on the 7th June - players can then be with their national teams from June 1st through to June 14th. The Tournament then finishes 5 weeks later on July 12th, league calendar resumes on 19th July or could even push games back to a mid week fixture on July 23rd and then operate from normal the following weekend. I''m sure lots of clubs would moan about it, but lots of clubs moan during a summer world cup.

 

Hard to say what South American countries would think about it, I''m sure they would feel hotter weather gives them an advantage. Will be interesting to see what happens at Brazil 2014 - which despite being in the Brazilian winter will also be incredibly hot at times and worst of all, very humid. I have a feeling that will focus a lot of minds onto the issue of the Qatari summer.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Realistically the Premier League would have to be stopped for 6 weeks in the winter, which shouldn''t be so hard and by 2022 I wouldn''t be surprised if changing weather patterns have forced a winter break into the English game anyway.[/quote]

 

That would mean just one week before the tournament and one week after. I cannot see that is feasible. The break would have to be some weeks longer.Blatter is an astute politician (which is how he got and stayed where he is) but I''m nore surer he will get his way on this. There are some powerful commercial forces in Europe that are opposed, and I would be interested to know what the non-European football federations think of a switch to the winter. My guess (it is only a guess) is that the hot-country nations, such as the South Americans, would be happy to play in the Qatar summer. Rather as they were when the tournament was staged in Mexico in 1970, with games often in the middle of the day (so the hottest part) and with some at altitude.

[/quote]

 

I only think there would need to be a one week break afterwards, especially as only 4 teams are involved right until the end. You can work a 13 day break before the tournament and only lose 1 matchday fixture from the league calendar - players would leave for the World Cup straight after a league fixture. For example (using the 2014 World Cup dates), the tournaments starts on June 14th, you allow the league to play May 31st but cancel games on the 7th June - players can then be with their national teams from June 1st through to June 14th. The Tournament then finishes 5 weeks later on July 12th, league calendar resumes on 19th July or could even push games back to a mid week fixture on July 23rd and then operate from normal the following weekend. I''m sure lots of clubs would moan about it, but lots of clubs moan during a summer world cup.

 

Hard to say what South American countries would think about it, I''m sure they would feel hotter weather gives them an advantage. Will be interesting to see what happens at Brazil 2014 - which despite being in the Brazilian winter will also be incredibly hot at times and worst of all, very humid. I have a feeling that will focus a lot of minds onto the issue of the Qatari summer.

[/quote]

 

But you don''t know which four teams! And I cannot see the major European club sides being happy with their star players having to get back to the grind of League action so quickly as in your schedule.

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If the stadiums are to be air conditioned, who cares what the weather is? Besides, it''s a dry heat, I presume.

My problem is the thought of a tiny country hosting such a massive event. Jeez, wealthy and populous Japan and South Korea shared the event. If Qatar creates the infrastructure to host it, the post-Cup waste of it strikes me as immoral. Supposedly the stadiums will be dismantled and sent to Africa (last I heard) but what about the hundreds of millions wasted on other facilities the Qataris will have no use for?

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[quote user="Houston Canary"]If the stadiums are to be air conditioned, who cares what the weather is? Besides, it''s a dry heat, I presume.

My problem is the thought of a tiny country hosting such a massive event. Jeez, wealthy and populous Japan and South Korea shared the event. If Qatar creates the infrastructure to host it, the post-Cup waste of it strikes me as immoral. Supposedly the stadiums will be dismantled and sent to Africa (last I heard) but what about the hundreds of millions wasted on other facilities the Qataris will have no use for?[/quote]Air-conditioned stadia were mooted when the WC was given to Qatar around 2007/8 but I believe have been dropped as a viable option in subsequent years. Thus, if the original agreement has been changed which was used to win the WC for Qatar then they have effectively breached contract and so moving the WC is an option without any money having to be rembursed to Qatar IMO.  Compensation may actually be due to the FIFA IMO. 

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[quote user="Houston Canary"]If the stadiums are to be air conditioned, who cares what the weather is? Besides, it''s a dry heat, I presume. My problem is the thought of a tiny country hosting such a massive event. Jeez, wealthy and populous Japan and South Korea shared the event. If Qatar creates the infrastructure to host it, the post-Cup waste of it strikes me as immoral. Supposedly the stadiums will be dismantled and sent to Africa (last I heard) but what about the hundreds of millions wasted on other facilities the Qataris will have no use for?[/quote]

I think you assume wrong about the dry heat. Humidity can reach 90% in summer, no way could you play in the heat and humidity

 

 

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