TURKEYS WORTHINGTON THANKFULLY DIDN'T SIGN...

[Bernard Futter 0]

Much has been made of Nigel Worthington''s decidedly patchy record on completed transfer deals, but even this pales into insignificance when you look at the list of players he tried hard and (thankfully) failed to sign.Step forward Ian Moore, Rob Hulse, Alan Lee and Gareth Taylor, all forwards Worthington considered shelling out large sums of money on (for City) who have all struggled to make much impact at their new clubs.Clearly the manager may have had a cunning plan to better integrate them into City''s game plan, but given his tactical nous, I somehow doubt it! Trading in the transfer market will always be a speculative business but in the recent past the Club enjoyed a fantastic record of unearthing reasonably priced talent and for every Dean Coney, there were six or more Ian Crook''s. (Now it''s the other way around and we seem especially well stocked with ''Dean Coney''s'') As a further measure, it''s also illuminating to contrast the transfer income then with the money Worthington signings have generated when they''ve been moved on...

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

I''m sorry, but to my mind this post is typical of the pathetic, negative, whinging which a lot of posters on this board seem to be indulging in at the moment.

It''s not good enough to condemn the best manager we''ve had in years for the things he has done wrong (whilst totally ignoring the huge list of good things he has done for us). No, lets condemn him as well for things that he didn''t do as well!

Your rose tinted view of past signings is totally inaccurate too. Obviously you don''t remember Willy Young, Drazen Muzinic, Clive Woods, Johnny Miller, Mike Sheron, or ????? Rush (who Martin O''Neill paid £300,000 for). And these are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

[westoncanary. 0]

Matthew Rush I think?

[chicken 0]

Totally agree Mr Rosario,

I am totally hacked off with people doing nothing but dreadging up c**p about the team and Worthington.

People like this have ripped to shreads everything that the club stands for and has built in the last five or six years. It makes me absoloutly sick and embaressed to even be associated with them.

You cant sign players on what they are actually going to achieve, you can only sign players on what they have achieved taking into account their price tag.

I think Hulse was available for £100K or there-abouts. Most of the players mentioned there were before or after the play-offs when we still had limited amounts of cash to spend.

It has to be said that Worthington has been a shrewed dealer when it comes to signings. He is not scared of accepting he has been wrong and letting them go, at the same time he has dug out some absolute bargins. Holt, Francis, Charlton and Drury spring to mind.

Not only that but when he has got the moneyhe has spent it well in Ashton.

So stop whinging or go and support another team that is where we were ten years ago because if you hadnt realised a lot has happened since then including Hamilton and his dutch duo!

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote]I''m sorry, but to my mind this post is typical of the pathetic, negative, whinging which a lot of posters on this board seem to be indulging in at the moment. It''s not good enough to condemn the best...[/quote]

Totally with you there Mr Rosario... I know that this board is a haven of free speech, and its possible that a lot of people just start topics simply to see what debate arises from it (hence my Liverpool post t''other day - it was a genuine message of support, but I was interested in the response).

But slating Worthington or Greeno, etc, is just plain wrong... maybe we should ask the web support team to set up a specific "let''s all be negative and annoying and say bad things about people who don''t deserve it" sticky topic? Then they can do all the slating we want, and us fans with something positive to say can happily ignore it and them...

Though they may want to think of a snappier title...

May I suggest "Negative W***ers"?????

[nolegs 0]

Negative W***ers? isn''t that Johnson''s thread?I''m presuming with the asterisks replaced the word is Wingers?!

[Bernard Futter 0]

So it''s hurrah to N.W. and let''s close off constructively debating his possible weaknesses that clearly cause anxieties even to otherwise supportive fans...

I have posted previously that Worthington probably got the job because he was on the spot, available and relatively inexpensive. It mirrors the situation with Mike Walker in his first tenure which proved that serendipity can occasionally work out exceptionally well.

What worries me fundamentally about Nigel Worthington, is that he does not appear to be capable of learning from his experiences.

Anyone who had come into manage the Club mid season would have addressed, as a first priority, the problem of the side shipping too many goals.
It may not have been pretty, but holding the opposition to 0-0 means that nicking a single goal could produce 3pts.

Despite his attack minded instincts, that''s exactly what Terry Venables did when he took over as tactical coach at Middlesborough when they were in terminal danger of relegation a few years ago.
Our manager neither played the right players (especially persisting with the lapse prone Fleming) nor got the defence playing as a cohesive unit (eg the side were defending too deep as long ago as the play offs).
Given NW was an ex defender, makes this all the more surprising.
As a defensive unit, City looked every bit as wide-eyed and naive at the end of the season, as at the beginning.

Survival always was a big ask, but if N.W. had been able to think on his feet and be prepared to amend his rigid thinking according to circumstances, I for one am sure that it would have made the vital difference by seasons end.
Can he change?
I have big doubts.

Rush suffered a severe knee injury which all but finished his career in I think his first game and you''ll find Moore, Hulse and Lee were each in the £850k-£1million bracket

[3pmkickoff 0]

Do tell Bernard where Worthy was going to get the money to sign these players in January. You only have to look at Southampton who forked out £400K plus wages for Bernard and he''ll be off for nowt

[Tumbleweed 106]

What worries me is the comparative dearth of quality from the youth ranks. We always used to have a good supply of young players coming through but I don''t know why it doesn''t happen so much anymore. Rob Green is a notable exception but Crow has just departed and Ryan Jarvis must wonder what his part will play. Shackell waited ages before he got a decent run this season.

I would like Nigel to encourage the youth set up more and blood some of these players. Then it wouldn''t matter so much about the quality of our signings.

BTW Bernard- did you forget the fantastic signings of Leon, Hux, Deano and Sven not to mention the loans of Harper, Crouch and Cooper in the Championship winning year? I''d say that although there have been a couple of small blips his recent record is one of the best ever. So let''s give him credit for that rather than jumping onto the so called failures. At least Nigel has learnt from his previous boss''s miserable dark days of De Waard, Derveld, Diop, Hamilton, Brady, Cottee, Walsh, Peschisolido....truly terrifying stuff from our not so distant past.

[Branston Pickle 3,634]

I have to say that I can understand where Bernard is coming from: I''d firstly say Worthy''s transfer record has turned out to be pretty reasonable - all managers sign players who for one reason or another fail (eg they are rubbish, or just don''t fit in), but who might make it elsewhere (Sheron), and as long as the successes outnumber the failures that is ok - and I''d say we are in a position where the pluses are ahead.

That said, it has to be said that this is largely down to fortune - it should be remembered that the successful transfers have mostly been lower down on the target lists!   For some reason we have traditionally missed out on his main targets each time (Connolly, Hulse, Taylor, Scimeca last close season, and there are many more!), only to realise later just how greatful we are for missing out! 

With regard to the defence, I confess I also agree.  I said so at the time, and nothing has changed my mind to the fact that the way to have tried to stay up should have been to spend our money in January on defender(s) rather than a striker.  Deano has undoubtedly been a huge success, scoring 7 goals in 16 games - a very good ratio in the Premiership by any measure - BUT in these 16 games it needs to be remembered that we let in 38 goals, and it was the defending (as a team) that ultimately cost us our place in the Premiership, not goal scoring.

[Bernard Futter 0]

I take your point ncfc4prem re funding at that juncture but my contention is that top managers are able to impose a system that gets the very best out of the players they have available to them. Martin O’Neill’s Leicester were certainly not good to look at in my book but the team overall transcended the sum of the parts in spades, with everyone having a clearly defined role within a system which suited their often limited abilities. Allied to the fantastic belief and team spirit O’Neill instilled into them, they were always a force to reckon with and difficult to beat, even for the very top teams.
I think N.W. (and the coaching staff) could and should have done better with what was available. For one, why couldn’t Shackle have been tried earlier?
Tumbleweed - you judge astute dealers in the transfer market like goalkeepers by how few mistakes they make. I would not suggest the players you selectively mention were in any way bad signings, but there have been far too many duds such as Rivers, Briggs, Heckinbottom, Doherty, Libbra, Jonson (to date), Abbey, Emblen (latter two questionable notwithstanding injuries) to suggest that NW’s overall transfer record is at best average.
Your comments re bringing through young players are well made. One can only imagine what the Jarvis bros thought of Danny Crow being released. Hardly a signal to instil confidence in the junior ranks.

[FatMan Fat 0]

Your points are well made Bernard, but as ever you will be slated for bringing them to the attention of the "rose coloured spectacle" brigade. Whilst Worthington deserves the praise and accolades for his successes he also desrves the questions and doubts over his failures.

[olster 0]

what was wrong with rob hulse ? he scored a few for leeds end of last season ?

[Tumbleweed 106]

Bernard- I fully admit there have been some duds ( although I do think Rivers looked good on paper but like Mulryne seemingly never had that extra bit of commitment, and Emblen could have been good had he not got a very bad injury), but I do think that overall Nigel has a pretty decent record. I doubt any manager in the world can ever get a 100% record (even Chelsea''s millions couldn''t guarantee that Drogba and Kezman woudl look good together). For me, Nigel''s managerial mistakes lie elsehwere- these have been well documented so I will not repeat here.