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Foghorn

Interesting dilema for one of our Premiership rivals......

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[quote user="Grant Holts 3 year contract"]Actually I think I will post it.

That is a massive stereotype of people and wrong when you bear in mind that a) not every muslim is a terrorist (probably get some argument on that by some people on here..) and b) when you consider that there are muslims in the British army.

How would people react  if I stereotyped all white English people as "EDL supporting racist thugs?".

[/quote]Who said every muslim is a terrorist? Ah right, you just plucked the assumption out of nowhere.I suggest you go and have a look at exactly how many muslims are in the army, and how many of them are in combatant active roles, then tell me a little more about what you think about it.Last time I looked there weren''t white Christians marching in the name of their religion branding anyone baby killers and butchers. This is a fact, not a loose stereotype based on nothing at all.But still, lets stick to football[Y]

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Bit off Topic.But I''d love to know how much Aviva have made since they sponsored NorwichThink they picked us up around 2008.... with us heading into League One the following year.Can''t imagine even in their wildest dreams did they think a few years later the Aviva brand would be splashed across the Premier League and consequently the entire world.I know they also Sponsor the Rugby, but I can''t imagine that is anywhere near as lucrative as the Norwich City deal.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Grant Holts 3 year contract"]Actually I think I will post it.

That is a massive stereotype of people and wrong when you bear in mind that a) not every muslim is a terrorist (probably get some argument on that by some people on here..) and b) when you consider that there are muslims in the British army.

How would people react  if I stereotyped all white English people as "EDL supporting racist thugs?".

[/quote]Who said every muslim is a terrorist? Ah right, you just plucked the assumption out of nowhere.I suggest you go and have a look at exactly how many muslims are in the army, and how many of them are in combatant active roles, then tell me a little more about what you think about it.Last time I looked there weren''t white Christians marching in the name of their religion branding anyone baby killers and butchers. This is a fact, not a loose stereotype based on nothing at all.But still, lets stick to football[Y]

[/quote]

Morty look up the The Phelps family and The Most Hated Family in America on you tube.

It''s people on the very extremes of a religion who are dangerous and incite violence and hate. 99% of Muslims, Christians and other religions respect that others have a different beliefs.

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Returning to the use of ethics here rather than the right or wrong of what Wonga does - it wasn''t a problem for him to wear the shirt of a bank for a club which has an alcohol company as a major sponsor in a league carrying the name of another bank.

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[quote user="Brightside"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Grant Holts 3 year contract"]Actually I think I will post it.

That is a massive stereotype of people and wrong when you bear in mind that a) not every muslim is a terrorist (probably get some argument on that by some people on here..) and b) when you consider that there are muslims in the British army.

How would people react  if I stereotyped all white English people as "EDL supporting racist thugs?".

[/quote]Who said every muslim is a terrorist? Ah right, you just plucked the assumption out of nowhere.I suggest you go and have a look at exactly how many muslims are in the army, and how many of them are in combatant active roles, then tell me a little more about what you think about it.Last time I looked there weren''t white Christians marching in the name of their religion branding anyone baby killers and butchers. This is a fact, not a loose stereotype based on nothing at all.But still, lets stick to football[Y]

[/quote]

Morty look up the The Phelps family and The Most Hated Family in America on you tube.

It''s people on the very extremes of a religion who are dangerous and incite violence and hate. 99% of Muslims, Christians and other religions respect that others have a different beliefs.[/quote]I''ll pass thanks[Y]I''m even less of a fan of Americans than I am of religious nutjobs lol.

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Oh and OT I find it very strange that Llambias appointed a company like Wonga considering what absolute scum of the earth they are. A company that exploits the weakest and most vunrable in society should not be given the publicity

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"Last time I looked there weren''t white Christians marching in the name of their religion branding anyone baby killers and butchers."

I have to say morty I usually agree with you but that was utter rubbish.

Have you not seen how some Christians react to abortion? There have been bombings of clinics, murders of doctors and countless (sickening) pickets outside clinics, branding unwilling mothers butchers and baby killers.

The point is that all religions are just as hateful, bigoted and intolerant as each other. The tip of the iceberg is love, compassion and peace. But what the theists like to forget is that the rest of there religion is full hate (such as how the bible describes how to sell and beat slaves, and the quran says that if a woman doesn''t scream loud enough during rape it''s her fault).

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[quote user="First acolyte the east coast role model"]"Last time I looked there weren''t white Christians marching in the name of their religion branding anyone baby killers and butchers."

I have to say morty I usually agree with you but that was utter rubbish.

Have you not seen how some Christians react to abortion? There have been bombings of clinics, murders of doctors and countless (sickening) pickets outside clinics, branding unwilling mothers butchers and baby killers.

The point is that all religions are just as hateful, bigoted and intolerant as each other. The tip of the iceberg is love, compassion and peace. But what the theists like to forget is that the rest of there religion is full hate (such as how the bible describes how to sell and beat slaves, and the quran says that if a woman doesn''t scream loud enough during rape it''s her fault).[/quote]Did these things happen in Britain?I''m an aethiest, you don''t have to preach anything to me about the utter stupidity of virtually all religions[Y]

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I dare say it''s not as severe as it is in America, but there have been cases.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/mar/23/anti-abortion-40-days-of-life-vigils

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"I''m an aethiest, you don''t have to preach anything to me about the utter stupidity of virtually all religions"

Yeah, I know. I was unsure until I read the bible at the age of 16, cover to cover, and decided that I was more moral than the god in the bible and decided that it was a bunch of crap when I did further research.

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[quote user="First acolyte the east coast role model"]I dare say it''s not as severe as it is in America, but there have been cases.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/mar/23/anti-abortion-40-days-of-life-vigils[/quote]No, its not nearly as severe at all.I think the tangent you have shot across to presents a very different set of moral issues to the one that was being discussed though, and frankly neither issues are really a discussion for here.

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[quote user="Foghorn"]

Cisse has apparently objected to wearing a shirt with the new sponsor''s name for Newcastle. He''s a practising Muslim, and objects to pay-day company Wonga. Tiote and Ben Arfur are also practising Muslims, but haven''t as yet stated whether they agree with his protest.

Do Newcastle

a) find a new sponsor,

b) upset the sponsor by allowing Cisse to wear an unbranded shirt, or

c) put him (and possibly the other two) up for sale?

Answers on a postcard, please, to St James'' Park, Necastle.

[/quote]This would be a problem but he and the other Muslim players have already been wearing shirts with Northern Rock and Virgin Money on them and they charge interest.

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All Religion aside for a mo, is this just the newest of new reasons, for a player to ''justify'' to the outside world, that he wants to leave his Club?

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Muslims arent supposed to drink alcohol either (though I know a few who do), I wonder if alcohol would create a similar dilemma and how muslim players reacted when alcohol was heavily involved in football. It was the Carling Premiership for a long time and several lager brands used to be shirt sponsors. Think during this period there were fewer muslim players in the english leagues though.

I asked a muslim friend once why alcohol was forbidden. He said it was because intoxication could interfere with the ability to pray regularly. Unusual to find some logic in religion

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[quote user="First acolyte the east coast role model"]The point is that all religions are just as hateful, bigoted and intolerant as each other. [/quote]

 

[quote user="First acolyte the east coast role model"]Yeah, I know. I was unsure until I read the bible at the age of 16, cover to cover, and decided that I was more moral than the god in the bible and decided that it was a bunch of crap when I did further research.[/quote]

I find your statement regarding intolerance being equal across religions amusing. You have insulted the Holy Book of the Christian Religion on a public forum without a second thought. I wonder what your thoughts are on the other Holy Books of other Religions?

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As a lifelong agnostic I am pretty neutral on this.

 

However religion in itself is harmless - to me they all espouse basically the same message.

 

Where there are problems with religion it is solely down to the human condition being applied to them.    There are not muslim or christian terrorists/extremists,  merely psychopaths how have a distorted perception of reality and perpertrate acts of hatred and/or violence in the name of a religion.   The some preachers provide an influential voice of hate is not religion acting,  but the human owner of that voice. 

 

Murders and hate crimes are perpetrated by religious followers and those with no religious belief - it is not religion that is flawed,  but man.

 

For those who have faith that provides succour without impacting their fellow human beings I am happy for them for the strength it provides - I respect my friends with no religious affiliation just as much.   If the act of charging extreme interest offends Cisse beliefs I respect his stance - but it remains simply his boundary compared to virgin or northern rock.    

 

There are christians,  muslims, jedians, agnostics & atheists etc in both my friends and enemies.   The human condition to hate is at the heart of this - not the religion itself 

 

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"I find your statement regarding intolerance being equal across religions amusing. You have insulted the Holy Book of the Christian Religion on a public forum without a second thought. I wonder what your thoughts are on the other Holy Books of other Religions?"

My thoughts are that all the "Holy books" are man-made and contains several flaws and are not a textbook for moral guidance. I don''t care if I insult your book, maybe if you did some proper reading into it you''d see what I mean.

I swear most Christians treat the bible like the terms and conditions on a website, nobody reads it, they just scroll to the bottom and click yes.

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[quote]I find your statement regarding intolerance being equal across religions amusing. You have insulted the Holy Book of the Christian Religion on a public forum without a second thought. I wonder what your thoughts are on the other Holy Books of other Religions?[/quote]

It''s not intolerant to say a religion is a "bunch of crap". They all are, every single one of them. The bible is full of garbage. All religious people suffer with some level of delusion.

Intolerance is none of this. It''s not allowing people the right to be wrong. I wouldn''t dream of trying to stop anyone from holding any religious viewpoint, and I''d never discriminate based on their beliefs (in fact I go out of my way never to even ask people what they are).

As free as they are to hold a religious belief, I am equally free to think AND say that I consider their beliefs to be utter rubbish.

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

 

Where there are problems with religion it is solely down to the human condition being applied to them.    There are not muslim or christian terrorists/extremists,  merely psychopaths how have a distorted perception of reality and perpertrate acts of hatred and/or violence in the name of a religion.   The some preachers provide an influential voice of hate is not religion acting,  but the human owner of that voice. 

 Murders and hate crimes are perpetrated by religious followers and those with no religious belief - it is not religion that is flawed,  but man.

 [/quote]

Agree with the entire post but mostly the part I''ve taken out and even more so the stuff I''ve highlighted.

The religions themselves arent the issue... it is the people acting out their "religious beliefs" that are the issue.

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100% agree with Alan.

I shouldn''t be intolerant of black people, because thats illogical and wrong, and I shouldn''t be intolerant of homosexuals because of the same reason, but I do have a right to argue why I don''t like religion because thats a right.

Strangely it''s always the religious who try to avoid questions.

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[quote user="First acolyte the east coast role model"]"I find your statement regarding intolerance being equal across religions amusing. You have insulted the Holy Book of the Christian Religion on a public forum without a second thought. I wonder what your thoughts are on the other Holy Books of other Religions?"

My thoughts are that all the "Holy books" are man-made and contains several flaws and are not a textbook for moral guidance. I don''t care if I insult your book, maybe if you did some proper reading into it you''d see what I mean.

I swear most Christians treat the bible like the terms and conditions on a website, nobody reads it, they just scroll to the bottom and click yes.[/quote]

You are a gullible fool.

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[quote user="morty"]My imaginary God is better than your imaginary God.#case rested.[/quote]

Mortimer you do not fail to offend me, if anything this is one of the best illustrations of your inconsiderate nature, God will be frowning on you today, particularly for blaspheming against him on the holiest of these days.

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It is apt to remind you:

"and so vengeful that wrath will be poured down upon innocent descendants of ''wrongdoers'' for generations to come"

The actions of those who blaspheme will affect their future generations for years to come. Take heed of my word or the glorious lord will punish you.

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The basis of the Christian religion is probably fine and Jesus was probably quite a cool guy in a live and let live kind of way.  The problem is that a long while after he died, other people decided to write down their versions of what they think he meant to say (or indeed what he should have said) and then used it as a method of social control and a device to start wars with.I think Will Self''s usually a bit of a knob, but this novel is excellent as a religious satire.

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So beware, for the time is coming, says the LORD, when this place will no longer be called Topheth or the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter. For I will upset the battle plans of Judah and Jerusalem and let invading armies slaughter them. The enemy will leave the dead bodies as food for the vultures and wild animals. I will wipe Jerusalem from the face of the earth, making it a monument to their stupidity. All who pass by will be appalled and will gasp at the destruction they see there. I will see to it that your enemies lay siege to the city until all the food is gone. Then those trapped inside will have to eat their own sons and daughters and friends. They will be driven to utter despair

Puniunt, Deus ultionum, qui non igni exhibenda reverentia famae. Beati fidelibus hominibus, non haec. Ignis ardentis!

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