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Hackedoff

OT - Under 21's

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Anybody been catching the tournament? Am really impressed with Italy so far. Everyone is harping on about Spain but really impressed by the youngsters on display. Germany and Holland also look like they hav bright futures. England....not so much.

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been a great tournament so far, Italy have been excellent, Verratti for Italy is absolute class bright future

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I actually think was poor management and tactics that stuffed England up, rather than lack of talent.

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Pearce is a terrible manager. Ince looked like he didn''t know where he was playing, zaha was put in as a striker which was not effective, wickham is just terrible. Pierce didn''t get a urging right but acting Redmond and that was I my dud to injuries.

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Was it a good night Skerrit. You post must have made sense at the time.

 

Seriously, Pearce seems to have confirmed his position as manager has come to an end with post match comments. I''ve not watched much of this yet, but are other countries restricted in their use of their "best" U21''s like us? And of course there is the issue of ours not getting games in domestic league! Should we consider loaning our players overseas rather than to lower leagues? Trouble is I suspect overseas clubs wouldn''t want ''em.

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I do feel that Conner Wickhampton does deserve a special mention. I have absolutely no idea what CW is supposed to be good at? Heading? Pace? Passing? Holding the ball up? Juggling? Collecting the cones? Does he drive the bus? What is it?

 

In a sea of mediocrity, and a preposterous use of a long diagonal ball, Wikki still looks useless. Thank god Stuart Pearce knows more about football than me.

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I dont get why Oxlade-C was not getting tournament experience in israel instead of enjoying a brazilian jolly for a meaningless friendly?    Its like we have the attitude that our second string will be strong enough to win an international tournament because we are Ingerland.

 

The senior squad suffer in the long run as the age groups are not allowed to develop together - how do players develop an understanding when they are playing thousands of miles apart.  The Ox will win plenty of full caps and if its a choice between a competetive games then the senior team win.

 

Until the FA take these tournaments seriously we will continue to under acheive.   

 

Yes I agree Pearces time is up - but his successor has to be allowed to pick a competetive team.     

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Most worrying is that the u21s are playing with exactly the lack of passion and technical competence that the senior squad has displayed for the last 10+ years.     The future for England FC is bleak indeed.   

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]Most worrying is that the u21s are playing with exactly the lack of passion and technical competence that the senior squad has displayed for the last 10+ years.     The future for England FC is bleak indeed.   [/quote]

 

 

And always will do Zipper until the FA stop appointing ''YES'' men................at all levels including the women''s side!

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I don''t know what all the fuss is about.  Qualifying with ease and then underachieving at major tournaments is the foundation of the English national side''s strategy and as far as I can see, the future looks pretty bright.Let''s hope Steve McLaren replaces Stuart Pearce so continuity is maintained.

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There was a distinct lack of passion and desire from the players in the Norway game. It looked almost as though Pearce''s attack on them from the previous game gave them the confidence boost they really needed...

As for Norway, some of their players looked quality. Nielsen and Jo Inge Berget in particular impressed me, and Stefan Johansen in midfield looked like a tough tackler.

The discussion about club vs country will rear it''s head again, and now there also seems to be a discussion about Senior vs U21 teams. England could have had Rodwell, Welbeck, Cleverley, Ox-C, Wilshere all playing, and possibly more (I''m only just awake I may have missed some obvious ones.) Why were these players not chosen? If England were to get to the final, these players would play 5 games. 3 group games, semi, final. Is that too much to ask?

In comparison, 4 of Norway''s players flew through the night to get back from a senior international against Albania to play in the game. Havard Nordtveidt played the full 90 for the seniors and still turned up. Can you see any of the England lot doing that? No, neither can I.

There is also a lot of hypocrisy surrounding fans of the top Premier League teams. If you trawl the BBC website and it''s stories, some of them have comments sections. The same people calling for more English players in the league, are the same ones calling for Arsenal to spend £70m on "proven" foreigners, and not rubbish youngsters like Carl Jenkinson.

The problem here is that getting in the Champions League, and to a lesser extent even staying in the PL is so financially important to teams, there isn''t any time or place for any club to mess about developing players, no matter what country they are from. If the league system wasn''t so divided by money, then it would be so much easier to develop young players, because it removes the element of financial instability when/if things don''t go to plan.

Rant over. Thanks.

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There are so many things wrong with the English game at the moment it''s embarrassing, but it''s all masked behind the fact the premier league has lots of cash swilling around for teams to have some very good key foreign players making our teams look better than they are. Pearce isn''t a good manager I agree, but watching England players U21 and senior''s often play a "pass and stand there watching" game as apposed to a "pass and move" is nothing short of a disgrace.

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What do people expect?

Heart and desire enough to inspire enough support which can push them over the line to win the trophy.

Ring any bells?

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It will all rear up again. Too many foreigners, why weren''t Wilshere,Ox involved, blah blah blah. The thing i found suprising with the foreigners was though is that the PL was bottom for homegrown (ok not really suprising) and Serie A was 0.1% above that. In contrast it is not a lot but the youngsters looked miles apart in terms of ability.

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This was clearly way short of England''s strongest team, but also managed by Stuart Pearce who has proved himself to be out of his depth when he gets a team to a tournament, a team that when at full strength qualified impressively . The blame in this instance is all to do with "the management" in sending a weakened squad to a major tournament and then not being able to organise and motivate the team at the tournement..............shocking! 

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There are many issues here that need addressing!

Firstly if you look at the best teams in this tournament Holland, Italy, Germany and Spain almost all their players play in the top leagues and regularly for the first team. And if anyone thinks that the EPL is the be all and end all of club football and that all other league and top divisions are only as good as our Championship, are deluded!(Sorry a bit strong!)

Our youngsters are over coached, underplayed and greedy! How many move abroad to get regular football at a high level? ls it because they believe that Money is everything and here they would rather get paid double for sitting on the bbench at Man City or Chelsea etc? or is it that Top clubs abroad feel they are not good enough and way over priced?

Secondly how can a first team friendly take precidence over a major international tournament albeit u21? Also we must be in a very poor state if our first team is reliant upon u21 players!

Thirdly, I help coach junior soccer and witnessed some very troubling things. The standard of basic skills is appalling! If you can''t do the fundamental things properly how can you play the game?

Also l have seen coaches who have a win at all costs attitude where dirty play and no skill is involved! This is the way we are developing our young footballers!

I don''t have all the answers but I do believe we must start at the beginning with emphasis on skills and development and young players need to get real about their careers!

Rant over!

Snake

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There are a lot of things wrong with the youth setup in England, but the arguments about not having a full strength squad really are fallacious.

The only person, of notable quality, who was missing through selection from the two games that beat Norway twice in qualifying was the Ox - Lansbury was out through injury.

Also, Cleverley is ineligible to play as he''s born before Jan 1 1990.

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Disappointed to see England bow out in such poor style.

As a Norwegian myself, I though our team had a good chance before the game, knowing the English U21 players as being rather "relaxed" in U21 tournaments in previous years.

Also, many of the English U21 players are playing regularly, as a decent level, many in the Prem, many in the Championship, but to me it just looked as they diod not want to be playing this tournament.

They looked like they were envying their buddies in Vegas, Magaluf, Ibiza, or wherever young people with big egos and too much money are floating around in June. It just looked as they wanted a few weeks more off before starting preseason in July.

Blaming Pearce for your failure is a dead end in my eyes.

Pearce, ofcourse being no tactical genius, nor a brilliant man-manager, can not be held responsible for his players total lack of committment.

However, I do think England would be better off picking good U21 players from perhaps even lower leagues (as silly as it may seem), simply because their committment and hunger would likely be much greater.

Even Pearce, known for his prematch agitation in his playing days, could not get a fire in the belly of these overpaid young players, and it is simply because they dont give a damn since they know they will be earning their money in the Premier next season anyway, they know they have the nescessary attention to be picked up by another club if needed anyway, and dont have to play to impress.

Every other nation have always admired the committment and pride the English players have always shown, in every game, even though we all know the English players are no worldbeaters in terms of skill.

Still, at this level, infact at every level, a lot of shortcomings in the technical department can be made amends for by proper mindset, committment, and a willingness to run the extra yard for the team.

Sadly this was very lacking in the English U21 team in Israel.

And, the temperature was not better suited for the Norwegians, almost on the contrary.

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The major issue with the Under-21''s is Stuart Pearce. Look at his personnel decisions in recent games. Playing Zaha as a striker? Playing Marvin Sordell left wing, then Shelvey and then McEachran? Pearce can complain about his lack of players all he wants, but when you lack the basic ability to put players in roles that suit them, you''re going to fail. His decision to play a striker on the wing against Italy was bizarre, then deciding to play two central-midfielders there? I doubt Shelvey or McEachran have ever played left-wing in their life. Assuming that Zaha was injured for the first game (although fit enough to be on the bench) he should''ve played Redmond on the left and moved Henderson out to the right (he''s no stranger to that role) and placed Shelvey behind Wickham with Chalobah (who continues to impress with his passing ability and control of the ball) and Lowe behind him. 

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I''ve been away so I didn''t see the games but I can''t say I''ve ever been impressed by Stuart Pearce. He seems very much like someone who makes sure he always says the right things to the right people.

 

I know some good players weren''t available but generally the U21''s have a pretty strong group of players. However, they seem to be coached to play like Pearce did. He got stuck in, he worked hard but he was never a particularly stylish player.

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