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Daniel Brigham

Why Norwich should say no to Toivonen

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Purple: Not sure a blog should put forward a minority view, but rather just the author''s view. Don''t think the majority of my blogs have been minority viewpoints, although this one clearly is (and then some!). I don''t set out to deliberately antagonise.

You say it''s based on a perverse misreading of his psychology, I say it''s based on one reading of his psychology. Either way - whether we think it makes him sound sane or narcissistic - we''re all making assumptions.

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="ricardo"]Well, I often talk about my other self in the third person and he does the same about me.

As far as I know he''s never complained about it.[;)][/quote]

 

I think you should both see a doctor Ricardo. [;)][/quote]

I keep telling him Lapp but he won''t listen to me.

Perhaps you could have a word.[Y][/quote]

 

He doesn''t listen to me either Ricardo. Last time I saw him he asked me what was wrong, I told him, and he just opened the door and said "NEXT". [:''(]

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[quote user="Daniel Brigham"]Purple: Not sure a blog should put forward a minority view, but rather just the author''s view. Don''t think the majority of my blogs have been minority viewpoints, although this one clearly is (and then some!). I don''t set out to deliberately antagonise.

You say it''s based on a perverse misreading of his psychology, I say it''s based on one reading of his psychology. Either way - whether we think it makes him sound sane or narcissistic - we''re all making assumptions.[/quote]Stick to your opinion son, it''s no more right or wrong than anyone elses. Personally I think you are reading too much into Toivanen''s motives based on very little evidence in a scanty report. We don''t know what his beef with PSV is all about but we do know that his playing record is a good one and has largely been achieved at a high level. He looks like the kind of player we should be looking at in order to move to the next level.What we don''t know is what is going on behind the scenes or how long we have been trailing him before things entered the public domain. We do know that NCFC try to conduct business quietly and look fairly closely at a players character before moving to the bid stage. So far the judgement of those in charge of aquisitions has been pretty good so I for one, believe we should hold fire on critisism and wait and see how this pans out.

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="ricardo"]Well, I often talk about my other self in the third person and he does the same about me.As far as I know he''s never complained about it.[;)][/quote]

 

I think you should both see a doctor Ricardo. [;)][/quote]I keep telling him Lapp but he won''t listen to me.Perhaps you could have a word.[Y][/quote]

 

He doesn''t listen to me either Ricardo. Last time I saw him he asked me what was wrong, I told him, and he just opened the door and said "NEXT". [:''(]

[/quote]Typical, Mrs Ricardo told me the exact same story.I''d blow him out but I need to borrow his season ticket to get into the match.

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It may seem pedantic, but I do sort of think it stinks that people writing about this dude can''t really bother to get his name right. His full name may be Nils Ola Toivonen, but calling him that every time you refer to him is the equivalent of insisting on referring to Bobby Moore as Robert Frederick Chelsea Moore. Swedish given names don''t always come first, so the name he goes by is Ola, not Nils Ola or Nils.

I also assume that his comments were made in English, which can be no better than his third language (his dad is Finnish - I think he speaks the language - and he grew up in Sweden), or if not, they were translated, and in any case interpreted by a journalist.

How anyone can make a judgement on the guy when they know pretty much nothing about him is beyond me.

That said, I did ask a Swedish colleague "what''s Ola Toivenen like?" And he simply answered "overrated. We only have one good Swedish player and that''s ibrahimovic." Might be a bit unfair, but it''s more informed than most of the rest of the crap that''s been said about him. (When I said Norwich were in for him, my colleague said he''d probably be about right for us).

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[quote user="steakbearnaise"]It may seem pedantic, but I do sort of think it stinks that people writing about this dude can''t really bother to get his name right. His full name may be Nils Ola Toivonen, but calling him that every time you refer to him is the equivalent of insisting on referring to Bobby Moore as Robert Frederick Chelsea Moore. Swedish given names don''t always come first, so the name he goes by is Ola, not Nils Ola or Nils.

I also assume that his comments were made in English, which can be no better than his third language (his dad is Finnish - I think he speaks the language - and he grew up in Sweden), or if not, they were translated, and in any case interpreted by a journalist.

How anyone can make a judgement on the guy when they know pretty much nothing about him is beyond me.

That said, I did ask a Swedish colleague "what''s Ola Toivenen like?" And he simply answered "overrated. We only have one good Swedish player and that''s ibrahimovic." Might be a bit unfair, but it''s more informed than most of the rest of the crap that''s been said about him. (When I said Norwich were in for him, my colleague said he''d probably be about right for us).[/quote]

 

They were made on Tuesday night after the Sweden-Faroe Islands game in Stockholm, so probably in Swedish to Swedish journalists.

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I have a Swedish friend and she is incredibly blunt. She will just say "do this", with no please, no thanks or anything. They don''t say such words, unlike us Brits who are famous for our politeness. If Toivonen has come across a bit blunt then it could be cultural.

I actually like the sound of this Toivonen bloke anyway, at least he is being honest and it doesn''t surprise me if he hasn''t heard of the mighty NCFC. He''s doing the right thing taking some time to reach his decision, it''s what most normal people do, especially if it involves moving country.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="steakbearnaise"]It may seem pedantic, but I do sort of think it stinks that people writing about this dude can''t really bother to get his name right. His full name may be Nils Ola Toivonen, but calling him that every time you refer to him is the equivalent of insisting on referring to Bobby Moore as Robert Frederick Chelsea Moore. Swedish given names don''t always come first, so the name he goes by is Ola, not Nils Ola or Nils.

I also assume that his comments were made in English, which can be no better than his third language (his dad is Finnish - I think he speaks the language - and he grew up in Sweden), or if not, they were translated, and in any case interpreted by a journalist.

How anyone can make a judgement on the guy when they know pretty much nothing about him is beyond me.

That said, I did ask a Swedish colleague "what''s Ola Toivenen like?" And he simply answered "overrated. We only have one good Swedish player and that''s ibrahimovic." Might be a bit unfair, but it''s more informed than most of the rest of the crap that''s been said about him. (When I said Norwich were in for him, my colleague said he''d probably be about right for us).[/quote]

 

They were made on Tuesday night after the Sweden-Faroe Islands game in Stockholm, so probably in Swedish to Swedish journalists.

[/quote]

Looks like it:http://www.fotbollskanalen.se/england/toivonen-vet-inget-om-norwich-har-inte-ratt-tv-kanaler/

There''s a bit more detail here in Swedish, including on that ''long ball'' quote - he said "just because I''m tall, it doesn''t mean I like too many balls played up long", but he wasn''t suggesting that is how we play. The answer to the question about Norwich seems genuine, he hasn''t seen us this season, hadn''t heard about the bid/fee being agreed, so couldn''t say anything for the moment.

As i said, if not in his third language, then translated and selectively chosen or interpreted by journalists. I suggest we keep an open mind.

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[quote user="Daniel Brigham"]Purple: Not sure a blog should put forward a minority view, but rather just the author''s view. Don''t think the majority of my blogs have been minority viewpoints, although this one clearly is (and then some!). I don''t set out to deliberately antagonise.

You say it''s based on a perverse misreading of his psychology, I say it''s based on one reading of his psychology. Either way - whether we think it makes him sound sane or narcissistic - we''re all making assumptions.[/quote]

I''m not a qualified psychologist but when it comes to things like this you can''t make a sound, reasoned assessment without the questions or context from which he has been quoted.

You can''t see his reaction, you can''t hear his voice. Because it is typed you can''t even look for indicators in his handwriting.

Let''s take a little look at what has been reported:

1) Ola Toivonan contract talks with PSV hit difficult ground.

2) Norwich bid reportedly made and accepted.

3) Hours later Ola Toivonan is asked prior to an international fixture and a holiday, presumably with family.

At this point I wouldn''t rule out PSV or his agent using Norwich as a bargaining tool in contract negotiations. Perhaps PSV are fed up with his stone walling and accepted the bid simply as a sign that they are prepared to sell him if he doesn''t accept their terms.

Who knows, but I think it is fair to say he is a very talented player and as long as he gives everything if he does come here then I don''t really care how the move happens.

We''ll have other irons in the fire and we won''t wait forever, of that I can be sure. Apart from anything else nothing becomes official until July 1st.

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I''m impressed with the common desire to not rise to speculative journalism like this blog. I agree that Toivenon has every right to consider such a major move carefully. I would ask how much we know about the ''character'' of the players already at City. A question I would have to answer with ''not very much''. What does Pilks really think about CH or the club in general? Who knows? His transfer was a bit protracted, as I recall, and he was moving from League One to the PL! As for the delay, you could say the same about the possible signings of Shelvey or Hooper, both of which have gone very quiet. But to say that you don''t want a player to come to City based on speculation and hearsay is simply ridiculous, IMO..

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[quote user="Josh"]I have a Swedish friend and she is incredibly blunt. She will just say "do this", with no please, no thanks or anything. They don''t say such words, unlike us Brits who are famous for our politeness. If Toivonen has come across a bit blunt then it could be cultural.

I actually like the sound of this Toivonen bloke anyway, at least he is being honest and it doesn''t surprise me if he hasn''t heard of the mighty NCFC. He''s doing the right thing taking some time to reach his decision, it''s what most normal people do, especially if it involves moving country.[/quote]

Maybe he''s a bit of a cult then?   [:^)] 

[:D]

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The way I see it, Ola has HEARD of Norwich, much like RVW has HEARD of Norwich, but that''s most likely the extent of it.

On the continent, very few people seem to know much about the club. They''ll know we play in yellow, they''ll know we''re a Premier League side, they''ll probably know we beat Bayern and possibly at a stretch even know about our exploits against the Manchester teams.

Could they name our starting 11? Probably not. Our stadium? ''Carrow Park, is it?'' would be what I imagine their answer is. So really, if Ola doesn''t know much about us, it''s not a big deal. Benteke thought Villa was a London club.

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Everything seems to have been said already but I found this quite poor journalism. Invented quotes, plenty of supposition and very critical about someone whom very little is known. Pretty typical journalism really, which I why I have little time for journos in general.

With regards to Holtamania, if this is the holtamania who used to do the match reports on the website of the same name, then I am very much a fan and would love to see you have a column on the pinkun

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