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Daniel Brigham

Why Norwich should say no to Toivonen

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Here''s my latest blog for the Pink''un: why Toivonen''s attitude stinks.

http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun/cs/blogs/norwich_and_beyond/archive/2013/06/14/2934443.aspx

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That is so wide of the mark it is hard to know where to start. Just one obvious point. If you are going to accuse someone of being the kind to talk about themselves in the third person, then it would help the argument if they had done that. As opposed to talking about themselves in the - normal - first person, which is what Toivonen has done.

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Utter tosh, how much did you know about Toivonen before last week. Nothing wrong with being honest and saying you will take time in your decision, i''m sure if you were offered a New job that could impact your life, moving countries, you would want time to consider. So what that, when the Mighty European heavy weights NCFC came knocking he didn''t jump at the bit to sign and train at our world class training facilities.

A lot of this poor attitude accusations comes from twitter via PSV fans, the clue is right there. They''re not happy with him because he wants to leave, we saw this with Snodgrass, Howson and Johnson. As soon as they were off they were useless.

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The guy has just had a bad experience with his current club and contract. Why would he jump into talks with a club he knows nothing about during planned holiday time?

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[quote user="nu_matik"]The guy has just had a bad experience with his current club and contract. Why would he jump into talks with a club he knows nothing about during planned holiday time?[/quote]

...especially when chances are he has heard nothing official about it and its probably all rumour as far as he is concerned.

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Ha well this has gone down well! People are very angry.

Purple, I didn''t accuse him of talking in the third person. I said I can imagine him talking like that. It''s a pretty key difference.

Lappinitup - I do want it debated, but I always feel it''s too long to stick on here. You think it would be better if i did?

Are people really happy to wait around for a month while he decides whether to sign for us while we miss out on other potential targets should he decide to move elsewhere?

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Sorry. I usually like your blogs, but wish you hadn''t posted that as I disagree with your deductions and really hope that they are not published widely. I want this chap on-board, as many others do.

 

Nothing the player has said, in a second language as well, hints at any of the assertions you make about him or his personality.  IMO, nothing. Your  unqualified psychological insight, which amounts to a bit of a character assassination is therefore, IMO, both clumsy and unfounded. 

 

You find it necessary to make sweeping generalisations from a few lines said to a journalist when the player seems, quite rightly, to want to commit himself as little as possible in what is usually a delicate matter. A straight bat, as they say.

 

The oft-encounted Scandinavian bluntness has to be taken into account too. I should know I married a Finn.

 

He has no particular bad reputation, either with suspensions or headlines, in the past and the fact that his present club were initially anxious to hang onto him would suggest that his attitude had never been a problem.

 

Sorry Mr. Brigham, but I cannot agree with you, for once. 

 

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And somehow the pinkun still haven''t offered me a column.

 

[quote user="Daniel Brigham"]Are people really happy to wait around for a month while he decides whether to sign for us while we miss out on other potential targets should he decide to move elsewhere?[/quote]

 

I''m just throwing this out there - Norwich might, just might, have more than 1 bid in for a player at any given time.

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Holtmania. And what? These other players we may or may not have a bid in for then also have to wait for Toivonen''s decision? And what''s to stop other clubs from bidding for these players that we may or may not have a bid in for in the time it takes Toivonen to make a decision?

Have you asked the Pinkun if you can write a column? They might be happy for you to. More the merrier, I''d have thought.

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At the end of the day (that old cliché) I would like Norwich to sign quality players. I don''t particularly care what they have to say to the press/media and I appreciate they have to play their cards close to their chest.

 

If Toivonen winds up here I really won''t give a sh*t what he had to say beforehand as long as he dishes up the performances on the pitch. Hughton is no mug, he''s not going to bring someone to the club who is likely to cause upset.

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If he''s the sort of player to elbow and stamp on opposing players or try and con the ref into getting them sent off, then I''d be happy if NCFC pass up on the opportunity of signing him.

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I find people judging footballers'' character from a few snippets from reports incredibly tedious. To speculate on how Toivonen or Wolfswinkel think from a line or two here or there is ridiculous.

 

Whether RvW was delighted to sign for Norwich or not is completely unknown, he obviously isn''t going to say otherwise once he had put pen to paper and if Toivonen does sign I imagine he''ll start saying how much he loves Norwich and how happy he is to be here. Didn''t Tierny once say he''d ''never play for Norwich''?

 

Whilst for us fans Norwich is the greatest club in the world and we''d all jump at the chance to play for the team, it just isn''t true for professional players who have to make a careful decision over where they want to spend the next few years of their life. The news of Norwich''s offer happened whilst he was about to play an international game and it sounds like a jurno caught him on the hop with the comments.

 

I can''t imagine he will actually wait a month before giving his answer as Norwich will push the matter long before then but I would rather sign players who have to take a while to consider the club and ask themselves ''could I do better?'' than players who go ''that''s as good as I could ever get!''.

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[quote user="JonnyH"]If he''s the sort of player to elbow and stamp on opposing players or try and con the ref into getting them sent off, then I''d be happy if NCFC pass up on the opportunity of signing him.
[/quote]

Meh.

 

I''d rather he was doing it for us than against us.

 

I wouldn''t condone him (or any player) trying to end someone''s career but if he can do something to help us win a game of football then so be it.

 

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]That is so wide of the mark it is hard to know where to start. Just one obvious point. If you are going to accuse someone of being the kind to talk about themselves in the third person, then it would help the argument if they had done that. As opposed to talking about themselves in the - normal - first person, which is what Toivonen has done.[/quote]

 

I agree with Purple 100%.  Having actually read Toivonen''s comments as quoted in the press, they seem very sensible and down to earth.  For example saying he won''t just take the first offer that comes along, it needs to be the right club for him.  Or admitting that his TV is Canal+ which doesn''t include Premier League games - not exactly unreasonable for a footballer playing in Holland.

 

I do hope though that he isn''t put off joining by the fact he''s been getting flak from fans of our club even though all he''s done is make a few sensible remarks in an interview.

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[quote user="Daniel Brigham"]Ha well this has gone down well! People are very angry.

Purple, I didn''t accuse him of talking in the third person. I said I can imagine him talking like that. It''s a pretty key difference.

Lappinitup - I do want it debated, but I always feel it''s too long to stick on here. You think it would be better if i did?

Are people really happy to wait around for a month while he decides whether to sign for us while we miss out on other potential targets should he decide to move elsewhere?[/quote]

IMO you''ve imagined quite a bit regarding the whole piece.

As I see it, we''ve put a bid in just before he''s off on his hols and when he comes back he''ll decide on that and/if there''s others.

Yep, waiting a couple of weeks is a sod, but unfortunately it''s just how it works.

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At 26 the next move for this lad is a very important on, especially if it involves moving to a different country. Norwich are EPL but probably little known in some quarters. The fact that he is not instantly biting our hand off should not been seen as too much of a negative. He is clearly good enough to expect other offers and options and it is to be hoped he goes for us, if nor we all move on. Despite the media stories I expect there has and will be discussions going on only time will tell

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To be honest, I think you''ve all got a point. I''m unnecessarily basing my opinions on a few things he''s said to a jouno.

But, hey, it''s just a blog, it''s the pre-season and there''s not a huge amount to write about (in my spare time)!

However, I would say it''s seems naive to think Toivonen was caught on the hop after a game by a journo. I''m not sure in these days of agent control that it''s possible for a player to not hear about a bid being put in for him (especially when he wants to leave) after the newspapers have heard it first. It seems incredibly unlikely he wasn''t aware of the bid.

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[quote user="Tak"]

Whilst for us fans Norwich is the greatest club in the world and we''d all jump at the chance to play for the team, it just isn''t true for professional players who have to make a careful decision over where they want to spend the next few years of their life. [/quote]

 

But Norwich IS the greatest club in the world!

If professional players don''t recognise that, then we should give them short thrift!

How dare they!

Harumph![:P]

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[quote user="Daniel Brigham"]Ha well this has gone down well! People are very angry.

Purple, I didn''t accuse him of talking in the third person. I said I can imagine him talking like that. It''s a pretty key difference.

La
ppinitup - I do want it debated, but I always feel it''s too long to stick on here. You think it would be better if i did?

Are people really happy to wait around for a month while he decides whether to sign for us while we miss out on other potential targets should he decide to move elsewhere?[/quote]

 

Indeed. Which is - spookily - just what I posted:If you are going to accuse someone of being the kind to talk about themselves in the third person...

No difference at all between what you said and what I said you had said.

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What you wrote: "If you are going to accuse someone of being the kind to talk about themselves in the third person, then it would help the argument if they had done that."

That would only help the argument if I had actually said he does talk in the third person. So I don''t get the your point, but then I''m sure you''d say the same about my blog!

As I''ve said you''ve all got a point. It was a bit OTT and based on rather wild assumptions made from about 20 words. But then it''s a blog, an opinion piece, so these things happen.

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[quote user="Daniel Brigham"]Lappinitup - I do want it debated, but I always feel it''s too long to stick on here.[/quote]

 

This site is crying out for thought provoking threads so the length of the opening post doesn''t matter. I think the response on here is proof of that. There is no reason why you can''t post your stuff as a blog and on here too. Personally, I never read blogs but your headline did draw me to this one.

 

I will get round to discussing the content later but, judging by the replies so far, this is the place for it. [;)]

 

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Well, I often talk about my other self in the third person and he does the same about me.As far as I know he''s never complained about it.[;)]

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[quote user="Daniel Brigham"]What you wrote: "If you are going to accuse someone of being the kind to talk about themselves in the third person, then it would help the argument if they had done that."

That would only help the argument if I had actually said he does talk in the third person. So I don''t get the your point, but then I''m sure you''d say the same about my blog!

As I''ve said you''ve all got a point. It was a bit OTT and based on rather wild assumptions made from about 20 words. But then it''s a blog, an opinion piece, so these things happen.[/quote]

 

Daniel, I understand the point of a blog. They are meant to put forward a minority view. The problem with this blog is that from those quotes of Toivonen''s you have portrayed him as - enter exaggeration for dramatic effect - a money-obsessed narcissist whose ego rivals that of Cristiano Ronaldo. Whereas most people have drawn the opposite conclusion, that he is - for a footballer - sane and balanced and won''t be rushed into a decision purely for financial reasons. In other words the whole blog is based on a perverse misreading of his psychology.

 

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[quote user="ricardo"]Well, I often talk about my other self in the third person and he does the same about me.

As far as I know he''s never complained about it.[;)][/quote]

 

I think you should both see a doctor Ricardo. [;)]

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[quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="ricardo"]Well, I often talk about my other self in the third person and he does the same about me.As far as I know he''s never complained about it.[;)][/quote]

 

I think you should both see a doctor Ricardo. [;)]

[/quote]I keep telling him Lapp but he won''t listen to me.Perhaps you could have a word.[Y]

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