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Mr Brownstone

For those thinking we should let Holty go....

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[quote user="smooth"]Gh3yr contract

When we needed a striker that was being talked about for some meaningless England games last summer to lead us from January he was replaced by kk. He then did nothing when coming on as a sub to say he should be starting instead of kk( who I did not think was good enough).

There are two things that will happen

(1) holty stays and is third or fourth choice striker, he is great behind the scenes, picks up his large pay cheque.

(2) he moves on now, we get some money, his wages go towards a player who is playing in the first 11 even if his wages are part of someone''s wages. He can leave knowing he had two great seasons in the prem and leaves with a job done before he becomes a player who is on the bench just picking up a pay cheque.

As mentioned bassong and snoddy are our talismans now... Secondly I will reiterate west ham must be very happy we did not agree to holty moving on last year.[/quote]Why is that? West Ham are allegedly about to blow 15m on Andy Carroll and pay him 100k a week.... this is the chap who has scored less goals than Holt in the last 2 seasons

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[quote user="ARCHIEGEMMELL"][quote user="Joanna Grey"]2012/13 - all competitions

Minutes per Goal

Gary Hooper - 134

Luciano Becchio - 141

Ricky Van Wolfswinkel - 184

James Vaughan - 206

Ola Toivonen - 210

Jonjo Shelvey - 322

Grant Holt - 349

Anthony Pilkington - 490

Robert Snodgrass - 510

Wesley Hoolahan - 526[/quote]Minutes per goal...pretty poor at this level!!![/quote]Still scored more than Carroll, Welbeck etc, they made the England squad.....

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[quote user="ellis206"]The people that think we should let Holt leave are the same idiots who made themselves look very stupid last season with their pant wetting and have proved they know nothing about football. [/quote]

 

No.

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This coming season will be an improved squad on last and even more so on the the one before. In that first season, Holt scored, 16 goals? He has about 22 in two PL seasons, one of which playing out of position effectively.

Play to his strengths and he''ll arguably bag more than his first season in the PL, how could anyone not want that? On yeh he''s old.. I must be wrong.

Terminal decline...younger model....kk showed him up.... Some priceless comments

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[quote user="Curious Orange"]This coming season will be an improved squad on last and even more so on the the one before. In that first season, Holt scored, 16 goals? He has about 22 in two PL seasons, one of which playing out of position effectively.

Play to his strengths and he''ll arguably bag more than his first season in the PL, how could anyone not want that? On yeh he''s old.. I must be wrong.

Terminal decline...younger model....kk showed him up.... Some priceless comments[/quote]Out of position? No he didn''t. He played upfront. We looked better with one up front last season, Holt has to adapt. He has a good record for us in the Premier League and he showed what he is capable of in the last 3 games of the season but up until that point he had been giving performances that could best be described as ''lackluster'' and the kind of performances that would have seen Steve Morison getting crucified.Holt has a job to do short term but suggesting we build a team around (by ''playing to his strengths'') a 33 year old striker with only one good season at this level is crazy.

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I don''t like Andy Carroll, but he is going to be in this league for many years to come holty is near the end of his career, that is why i believe they are glad they haven''t got holty.

They want ba now I see who is a massive upgrade on holty. Holty would have been seen as a waste of money by west ham fans as they bolster this season and he would have been a bit part player at west ham.

Like i said if he stays we are paying big wages for a player to be third of fourth choice with a few years left of playing let alone premiership standard. He will be good for the dressing room, but I will. Add that holty going up to Cumbria, his attitude and performance at the end of the season will not go unnoticed as our team finds a new identity.

This is no longer Holty''s team, bassong, snoddy and now building round rvw is the team at carrow road. Holty will need to adapt and not act up as he has at times.

If holt stays then when his chances come he has to work as he did in his first season in the prem if not we are carrying a player. Up through to the end of the season it felt we were 10 men at times the way holty played. Let us not forget the awful run we were on that ridiculously ended with us in 11th.

We can now build a team that can give us stability and as I have said there are many in that first team that will be first team squad and fringe players. Tis summer window gives Hughton and norwich city the chance to grow.

Rvw comes in with some of the best football schooling in Europe and is playing international football, holty was a tyre fitter... That is the root and yes his story is amazing but now we build a team around exceptional quality to maintain our stay in this division and move forward to cup runs and developing high level European talent ( that includes the very young British stars we have)

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The main reason for keeping him would be the partnership he may strike up with rvw although It doesn''t seem probable we will play with a straight 2 up top. Holt doesn''t have the ability to play in the ''hole''. Rvw would be wasted there.

Holts attitude while being on the bench was awful and that showed in his performances that can''t be denied. Holt is a huge part in the gel and spirit of the team but to think he will push us to the next level I believe is wrong.

I won''t write him off but he was becoming a bad egg last season. What irritates me more than anything was how unfit and immobile he looked and petulant he became. No professional should allow himself to get that bad. Especially in this league.

Keep him in the squad but don''t expect him to be a big part on the pitch and don''t be surprised if it ends sourly because of it. Can''t forget his countless comments about his surprise at not being in the England squad. The guys in dreamland and a million miles away from being good enough imo.

Things really worked for him in his first season in the prem as it has done for Lambert this year. If your not in the first team either get your head down work hard adapt your game and fight for your place back or leave, the last thing we need is a player who really ain''t all that creating a bad atmosphere as it was starting to seem last season.

The last few games seemed he was getting back to the happy Holt we loved. If he starts next season like that I''d welcome him in and around the team because he can still make an impact. The heavy slow moaning petulant holt I would be happy to see the end of regardless of his brilliant past. Lets hope that isn''t the case.

OTBC

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I still think we need a number 2 striker so that holty is third or fourth with becchio.

If rvw gets injured then I do not want holty leading our line next season for the majority of the season. We need to build and that means better players and another new striker.

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[quote user="king canary"][quote user="Curious Orange"]This coming season will be an improved squad on last and even more so on the the one before. In that first season, Holt scored, 16 goals? He has about 22 in two PL seasons, one of which playing out of position effectively.

Play to his strengths and he''ll arguably bag more than his first season in the PL, how could anyone not want that? On yeh he''s old.. I must be wrong.

Terminal decline...younger model....kk showed him up.... Some priceless comments[/quote]Out of position? No he didn''t. He played upfront. We looked better with one up front last season, Holt has to adapt. He has a good record for us in the Premier League and he showed what he is capable of in the last 3 games of the season but up until that point he had been giving performances that could best be described as ''lackluster'' and the kind of performances that would have seen Steve Morison getting crucified.Holt has a job to do short term but suggesting we build a team around (by ''playing to his strengths'') a 33 year old striker with only one good season at this level is crazy. [/quote]

As you say, he played up front on his own where we know hes less effective from the previous season. Lambert knew that wasn''t his position and that''s why Morison was the main man (at least to begin with) when wanting to play one up top.

We looked better when playing one up front? Compared to when? The season before? Defensively definitely and I''m a Hughton fan who can''t wait to see what he does to improve the attack but we did not look anywhere near as good going forward this season as under Lambert and its ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

I have absolutely no issue with the season just gone and believe we overachieved to stay in the league. The tactics were right in that we built from the back but it''s agreed we need to strengthen the attack and become more of a goal threat (a la the final few games). Play this way and Holt will score as you said he did therefore proving my argument. If he can impress in an attacking team up front on his own, think what he can do back in a partnership in an attacking team.

Finally when Holt was mentioning an England call up, he was certainly good enough and had the stats to prove it. Highest scorer other than Rooney, minutes per goal etc. I''m not surprised at all if he was frustrated at being played on his own when he knows its not his position and therefore ruining the impression he''d made the season before that had come close to earning a call up he was clearly passionate about achieving.

Who knows what''s in Hughtons plans but a 4-4-2 with RVW and Holt sounds good to me

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Smooth wrote: Secondly I will reiterate west ham must be very happy we did not agree to holty moving on last year.

Third time you''ve brought this up - how do you know - did big Sam tell you this ?

Smooth wrote: This is no longer Holty''s team, bassong, snoddy and now building round rvw is the team at carrow road.

I thought it is Hughton''s team? I mean he picks the team for matches doesn''t he ? or is it you, Bassong, Snodgrass & RVW ? Build around ?Shouldn''t Hughton pick players on form or should he automatically put people in that are not performing.

Holt''s had an average season in your eyes. What happens if Bassong or Snodgrass are average this coming season ? What happens if RVW doesn''t score goals - would he be a dud in your eyes ?

You''re be on here shafting them and talking up players from other clubs again won''t you ?

If the players at this club do not meet your expectations - thats your problem not the players. We all dream we can get better players - but those you want are at Chelsea & Manchester City.

Where is your loyalty to the club & players ?

No we haven''t won the premiership or qualified for europe, but the players have performed well - they''ve knocked off the top teams in the division in some of the games.

If you want a win in every single game or score a goal in every attack I suggest you follow a club that have the players that can fulfill your dreams.

Just go to google maps & look for the directions to Stamford Bridge.

You won''t be missed here!

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[quote user="Six Pack"]Smooth wrote: Secondly I will reiterate west ham must be very happy we did not agree to holty moving on last year.

Third time you''ve brought this up - how do you know - did big Sam tell you this ?

Smooth wrote: This is no longer Holty''s team, bassong, snoddy and now building round rvw is the team at carrow road.

I thought it is Hughton''s team? I mean he picks the team for matches doesn''t he ? or is it you, Bassong, Snodgrass & RVW ? Build around ?Shouldn''t Hughton pick players on form or should he automatically put people in that are not performing.

Holt''s had an average season in your eyes. What happens if Bassong or Snodgrass are average this coming season ? What happens if RVW doesn''t score goals - would he be a dud in your eyes ?

You''re be on here shafting them and talking up players from other clubs again won''t you ?

If the players at this club do not meet your expectations - thats your problem not the players. We all dream we can get better players - but those you want are at Chelsea & Manchester City.

Where is your loyalty to the club & players ?

No we haven''t won the premiership or qualified for europe, but the players have performed well - they''ve knocked off the top teams in the division in some of the games.

If you want a win in every single game or score a goal in every attack I suggest you follow a club that have the players that can fulfill your dreams.

Just go to google maps & look for the directions to Stamford Bridge.

You won''t be missed here![/quote]What''s the weather like on your planet? Are you for real?  If RVW doesn''t score goals then he will be judged accordingly... the reason why we are upgrading on the tyre fitter is because he only got us 5 goals last season!  There is no room for sentiment in this game...Holt has done well for us in the lower leagues for which I am very thankful for but if you have any serious aspirations of not only surviving but becoming a real force at this level then you have to keep improving on what you already have!  It''s the same as Ferguson has done through out his carear at Old Trafford...remember Beckham and Van Nistelrooy?  People like yourself if you were at the helm would just have us yo-yoing between the Premiership and the Championship.

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Jesus

West ham were the only club reportedly interested in holty and nothing more happened and now they are attempting to sign other strikers, hence he would likely have been on the bench with west ham.

We are building a team around rvw... Why wouldn''t we... We would not build it around holty now as we have in years past

bassong and snoddy were the two players who were talismans last season. Hence the team is evolving or maybe you would like us to keep with Chris Martin and holty ?

I openly said anything above 17th last season would be amazing. I certainly do not have crazed out of proportion ideas of who we sign, my view is that we develop year on year. Strikers is def the area we are looking at.

So my feelings are as we are a team developing after a season where our defence improved we are now improving our attack and the team that kept us up the first year and just about kept us up this season is now going to be upgraded.

For me holty is not that key player to build a team around, he can be part of it or he can move on with our best wishes and we bring in a young, hungry centre forward to add to our team not just this upcoming season but for the next 2-3 years.

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[quote user="smooth"]For me holty is not that key player to build a team around....[/quote]

 

You keep repeating this "build a team around" nonsense. If it was true, what do you think would happen if that player was injured? Would games have to be postponed until he regained his fitness? Ridiculous idea! These days clubs have squads using different formations and tactics which change from game to game. No-one builds a team around one player.

 

Your repeated reference to Grant Holt as "the tyre fitter" is disrepectful too. We all know how he started out but he''s been a successful footballer for many years now and is currently captain of a Premier League side and one of our top scores of all time. The guy''s a legend and deserves more respect than some goon trying to belittle him all the time.

 

Just as the pant wetters were proved wrong last season, I hope Grant Holt stays with Norwich City and has really good season to prove the doubters wrong again. 

 

 

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[quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="smooth"]For me holty is not that key player to build a team around....[/quote]

 

You keep repeating this "build a team around" nonsense. If it was true, what do you think would happen if that player was injured? Would games have to be postponed until he regained his fitness? Ridiculous idea! These days clubs have squads using different formations and tactics which change from game to game. No-one builds a team around one player.

 

Your repeated reference to Grant Holt as "the tyre fitter" is disrepectful too. We all know how he started out but he''s been a successful footballer for many years now and is currently captain of a Premier League side and one of our top scores of all time. The guy''s a legend and deserves more respect than some goon trying to belittle him all the time.

 

Just as the pant wetters were proved wrong last season, I hope Grant Holt stays with Norwich City and has really good season to prove the doubters wrong again. 

 

 

[/quote]

Fully agree with all of this ^^^^^^^^^^^

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Quote function is a pain on here so will reply in this way...."We looked better when playing one up front? Compared to when? The season

before? Defensively definitely and I''m a Hughton fan who can''t wait to

see what he does to improve the attack but we did not look anywhere near

as good going forward this season as under Lambert and its ridiculous

to suggest otherwise."Compared to times this season when we played two up top- particularly the start of the season with Jackson up top with Holt. I''m not suggesting anything about last season, try not to put words in peoples mouths. "Finally when Holt was mentioning an England call up, he was certainly

good enough and had the stats to prove it. Highest scorer other than

Rooney, minutes per goal etc. I''m not surprised at all if he was

frustrated at being played on his own when he knows its not his position

and therefore ruining the impression he''d made the season before that

had come close to earning a call up he was clearly passionate about

achieving."In that case he needs to deal with his frustration better- focus on improving his game as a lone striker rather than playing on the verge of a red card. Feeling you are not being played in the right way is no excuse to play with less than 100% effort which I felt was the case at times."Who knows what''s in Hughtons plans but a 4-4-2 with RVW and Holt sounds good to me

"Possibly but I don''t see this being an effective starting system on a regular basis, more a tactic if we are chasing a game. As I mentioned I still see him being a big part of the team but more coming off the bench. The team looked better all season with Wes, Pilks and Snodgrass supporting one man up front. Holt is a good player but not good enough to change a successful system in order to crowbar him in and unlikely to be chosen ahead of our new record signing as a lone striker.

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[quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="smooth"]For me holty is not that key player to build a team around....[/quote]

 

You keep repeating this "build a team around" nonsense. If it was true, what do you think would happen if that player was injured? Would games have to be postponed until he regained his fitness? Ridiculous idea! These days clubs have squads using different formations and tactics which change from game to game. No-one builds a team around one player.

 

Your repeated reference to Grant Holt as "the tyre fitter" is disrepectful too. We all know how he started out but he''s been a successful footballer for many years now and is currently captain of a Premier League side and one of our top scores of all time. The guy''s a legend and deserves more respect than some goon trying to belittle him all the time.

 

Just as the pant wetters were proved wrong last season, I hope Grant Holt stays with Norwich City and has really good season to prove the doubters wrong again. 

 

 

[/quote]There is a legitimate debate to be had about Holt''s place in the squad next season. Phrases like ''the tyre fitter'' certainly don''t help but neither does phrases like ''pant wetters.''

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I am happy for holty to prove me wrong next season Warrant the contract he signed last year, I do not think we got a return on it last season. So I really hope with better players around him and if he stays that we as norwich city reap the rewards. I don''t care personally about holty, I care about Norwich city in the premier league, a vision for years to come using our youth system and exciting acquisitions which takes us up another level. Levels never thought possible with the backing of delia etc, we are a club now in charge of our finances and looking a great option.

Either way I want the best for Ncfc, I want us to grow year on year and become as stable as we can in this league. What Hughton achieved with our team last season after the terrible first few games was incredible. We have a defensive group to be proud of and can build on that in January and next summer. Tis summer we can build on our attacking threat, our midfield and take our team up another level.

Rvw is a couple of steps up from where our current forwards are, his football education is superior and he has performed at all stages of his career his pedigree is superb and a step up for our club. If we can add similar pedigree it will make the likes of Howson, pilky and tettey improve their games to the benefit of them and to the club.

I don''t think I am belittling him or that he would care, he is one playing premiership football not me, he is the one who negotiated an amazing contract, he is e one who has scored so many goals for this team. My point is that we as a club do move forward and we relied on holty last season, with Kane''s injury and Morison and jacko falling short. We need to add to our strike force, every club, business etc does it. You cannot stand still as you will be caught.

We need help in attack and I for one cannot wait to see the other new additions, if holty stays fine, i know he will lift the crowd and have a point to make. But I also know there will be a time when holty does leave and either it is of his choosing or ours as a club. But when he does I think he would want to know that we had settled forwards in who were performing week in week out in the premier league and holty could leave knowing we are in good hands. That process for me starts now, you want to have players getting used to Ncfc while holty is here so that we are not rushing to bringing someone in when holty leaves.

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I just cannot believe posters are suggesting we should let Bryan Conlon go. Granted he hasn''t scored a goal for us since the 1969-70 season, but that because we haven''t been playing tactically to his strengths for the past 33 years. And the idea that he is too old at 70 is just laughable. You don''t lose that inate footballing nous overnight.

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Smooth wrote: Secondly I will reiterate west ham must be very happy we did not agree to holty moving on last year. Third time you''ve brought this up - how do you know - did big Sam tell you this ?

Smooth wrote: This is no longer Holty''s team, bassong, snoddy and now building round rvw is the team at carrow road.

Sixpack wrote:

I thought it is Hughton''s team? I mean he picks the team for matches doesn''t he ? or is it you, Bassong, Snodgrass & RVW ? Build around ?Shouldn''t Hughton pick players on form or should he automatically put people in that are not performing. Holt''s had an average season in your eyes. What happens if Bassong or Snodgrass are average this coming season ? What happens if RVW doesn''t score goals - would he be a dud in your eyes ? You''re be on here shafting them and talking up players from other clubs again won''t you ? If the players at this club do not meet your expectations - thats your problem not the players. We all dream we can get better players - but those you want are at Chelsea & Manchester City. Where is your loyalty to the club & players ? No we haven''t won the premiership or qualified for europe, but the players have performed well - they''ve knocked off the top teams in the division in some of the games. If you want a win in every single game or score a goal in every attack I suggest you follow a club that have the players that can fulfill your dreams. Just go to google maps & look for the directions to Stamford Bridge. You won''t be missed here!

Archie Gemmell wrote:

What''s the weather like on your planet? Are you for real?

If RVW doesn''t score goals then he will be judged accordingly... the reason why we are upgrading on the tyre fitter is because he only got us 5 goals last season!

There is no room for sentiment in this game...Holt has done well for us in the lower leagues for which I am very thankful for but if you have any serious aspirations of not only surviving but becoming a real force at this level then you have to keep improving on what you already have!

It''s the same as Ferguson has done through out his carear at Old Trafford...remember Beckham and Van Nistelrooy?

People like yourself if you were at the helm would just have us yo-yoing between the Premiership and the Championship.

--------------------------------------------------------------

What planet are you from Archie Gemmell? to think any city fans do not want the club to progress. It''s not rocket science is it ? so you not special ! You may need to brush up on your comprehension.

My post had nothing to do with retaining players if they are not up to it. It was merely in response to Smooth''s continuous ridicule of Holt on this thread.

I take exception to his total disrespect towards a club legend. Yes Holt is a club legend !

And I take exception to people like yourself backing him up and trying to change the subject. "upgrading on the tyre fitter" what are you ?- just a real small person hiding behind a big massive avatar.

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[quote user="ncfc4eva"]The main reason for keeping him would be the partnership he may strike up with rvw although It doesn''t seem probable we will play with a straight 2 up top. Holt doesn''t have the ability to play in the ''hole''. Rvw would be wasted there. Holts attitude while being on the bench was awful and that showed in his performances that can''t be denied. Holt is a huge part in the gel and spirit of the team but to think he will push us to the next level I believe is wrong. I won''t write him off but he was becoming a bad egg last season. What irritates me more than anything was how unfit and immobile he looked and petulant he became. No professional should allow himself to get that bad. Especially in this league. Keep him in the squad but don''t expect him to be a big part on the pitch and don''t be surprised if it ends sourly because of it. Can''t forget his countless comments about his surprise at not being in the England squad. The guys in dreamland and a million miles away from being good enough imo. Things really worked for him in his first season in the prem as it has done for Lambert this year. If your not in the first team either get your head down work hard adapt your game and fight for your place back or leave, the last thing we need is a player who really ain''t all that creating a bad atmosphere as it was starting to seem last season. The last few games seemed he was getting back to the happy Holt we loved. If he starts next season like that I''d welcome him in and around the team because he can still make an impact. The heavy slow moaning petulant holt I would be happy to see the end of regardless of his brilliant past. Lets hope that isn''t the case. OTBC[/quote]

Sorry but these comments are slanderous, you''ve thrown these opinions out as facts. It is obvious to anybody that follows the Norwich players on twitter or has had conversations with them that Holty is a massive part of the dressing room and gets on well with all the players, far from your insistance that he had become a "bad egg".

In regards to his weight, I had the pleasure of meeting Holty at my place of work (Aviva) just after the Arsenal away game, had a manly hug thing going on for a photo and the guy is rock solid, built like a brickhouse, literally not an ounce of fat on him, this was also confirmed by Russell Martin on Talksport a couple of weeks ago. Holt is and always has been our talisman, go to a more attacking style again next year and he will score a bucketful again.

In regards to not being good enough for England, he has scored the same as Welbeck and Carroll combine, but guessing as they play for United and Liverpool you deem them good enough??

 

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