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super dave

vaughan and Butterfield

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Huddersfield close to tying up a deal for the pair for a combined fee of 2.5mil according to one of the morning papers.

Surely vaughan should command that fee on his own.

I don''t think that either of them have a future here but surely we have no need to sell any of our players on the cheap.

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[quote user="super dave"]Huddersfield close to tying up a deal for the pair for a combined fee of 2.5mil according to one of the morning papers.

Surely vaughan should command that fee on his own.

I don''t think that either of them have a future here but surely we have no need to sell any of our players on the cheap.[/quote]

You can only get what people will pay though.    £2.5 million and  two lots of wages less, frees up more money to buy one better player.

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Can anybody recall what we were reported to have paid for these two in the first place?

 

I have a feeling that Huddersfield are doing rather well, although it is probably a realistic amount considering the current climate and with all the players freed up at the moment due to FFP and other factors.

 

I had really wanted Butterfield to be given more of a chance here to live up to the initial hype, but I suppose Hughton & Co. will have assessed it all thoroughly.

 

Does this mean that the rumoured Vaughan-Olsson swap deal is off? Pity that.

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I''d take that as long as there''s a sell on clause inserted. Plenty of room for improvement, especially with Butterfield...

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Thats a real shame about Butterfield if true. Was looking forward to seeing what he could do. Still very young, and hasn''t really put that big cruciate injury behind him. Was really hoping we would see out his development, maybe another season or 2 on loan, then wait to see if he could really find his old form and get into the team.

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i am very surprised that City are considering selling Butterfield, if they actually are. he has not had a chance since signing, and i thought he would be given one at least until the January window.

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Although I think Vaughan could easily do a job as our 4th choice backup striker, I can understand the willingness to cash in on him if there''s a good offer on the table.Buttefield is a different matter, but I''m wondering exactly how much that injury has affected the lad and whether or not it''s had serious long term implications on him mentally much like Eduardo after his leg break for Arsenal...?If the fitness/management team know something along these lines then I can appreciate why they''d be willing to let him go, as we can''t afford to have players with these sort of concerns hanging over their heads - certainly not at this level.However, that''s all pure conjecture and I think it''s simply more likely that yet again we''ve improved more quickly than expected, have greater funds available than ever before and can afford to buy in genuine quality, rather than place our hope in younger players like Butterfield who may not be ready for this stage.I''d rather we kept him for at least this season tbh - even if we just loan him out again, but as with Vaughan, if there''s a decent offer on the table then it''s not a horrible move for either party.

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If we can get money for them that can go towards someone who is better equipped to help us compete in the Premier League then get it done.

 

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Has anyone considered the possibility that the fee is for Vaughan alone, with Butterfield going there with him on loan?

Has anyone considered the possibility that the rumour is bogus?

Just asking.

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Vaughan was 1.7m, he has done nothing to warrant selling him for anywhere near that amount. Butterfield was quoted at 750k in various outlets. My take on this was his signing was agreed post Hughton, as was Snodgrass. Again, feedback from his loan clubs was not great last year and he spent a fair amount of time on the bench for them.

 

So to get money back on both and use this towards one quality player would make sense to me, if, indeed, this is the plan.

 

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If true this is understandable. 

 

With Vaughan, it seemed odd that last year he was scoring goals in pre-season then was shipped out on a season-long loan.  So the feeling must be he isn''t going to make it with us at any point, and better to get a fee now rather than have him leave on a free like CM.

 

With Butterfield the only time I''ve seen him was in the FA Cup at Peterborough when he came on as a sub and there''s no way to judge a player on that.  But again it could just be they are judging that he won''t be able to step up to the Prem.

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[quote user="Cantiaci Canary"]We always seem to sell low and buy high![/quote]

Sorry mate, but that really is utter b****cks!

For instance, with Van Wolfswinkel we got a bargain because Sporting were desparate for cash and we had the nous to do the deal early. There are other examples where we''ve been "clever" to try and get some value - Vaughan is one because of his injury record, although I''ll admit that didn''t work out.

How many overpaid journeymen to we have on the books? I can''t think of one.

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Vaughan, Butterfield and Becchio are the forgotten men of the club. I just hope for their own sakes they get a chance to leave this summer.

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[quote user="Green Giant"]Vaughan, Butterfield and Becchio are the forgotten men of the club. I just hope for their own sakes they get a chance to leave this summer.[/quote]

I think Becchio has got a shot at being involved next year.

 

Hard to see the other two featuring or even being here.

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I would imagine another striker is coming in, with Vaughan departing

RVW

1 other

Holt

Becchio

 

will probably be the striker order.

We wont directly replace Butterfield, use the money perhaps to sign a left back?

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Vaughan moving to Huddersfield seems incredibly likely, hardly some new journalistic insight.

I''d be extremely disappointed if Butterfield is sold as well, even with a sell on clause. He has 3? (I think) years left on his contract and plenty of time to develop to first team standard and fulfil his obvious potential. He needs a 6 month or year long loan to prove his long term fitness and get games in.

Selling him on current evidence seems extremely short sighted considering how little game time he got last year, and the potential many believe he has, he is still young enough to come good in a year or so.

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[quote user="super dave"]Huddersfield close to tying up a deal for the pair for a combined fee of 2.5mil according to one of the morning papers.

Surely vaughan should command that fee on his own.

I don''t think that either of them have a future here but surely we have no need to sell any of our players on the cheap.[/quote]Do you have a source or a link super dave?

Assuming the report has any creditbility, bearing in mind neither players have dropped in ability since signing why would they only raise a combined £2.5million? Both were signed recently in the Premier League era so the club hasn''t overtaken them, as happened with other players.Vaughan was a total crock when he joined for £1.5-2mill, and has since recovered and started banging in goals, surely meaning his value is significantly higher?Butterfield joined on a compensation deal and is still just as much of a prospect as when he signed?It all seems either very fishy, or terrible business.

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I don''t think we paid all of the fees that some people keep knocking around, for Vaughan up front. I believe at the time it was mentioned that he would cost £1.5million plus add ons.

Considering we paid that as a premier league team hoping to sign a regular premier league player with promise at the age of 22 it is no surprise that two years later and a couple of injuries he is seen as more of a championship striker and his value somewhat depreciated.

He will be 25 by the time a ball is kicked in anger for next season. He needs regular football for his career to really take hold now. Quite rightly he should not settle for being fourth or fifth choice and we wouldn''t want anyone here who is happy to play that role, unless perhaps they are at the end of their career and know they can''t give us everything every game but can when called upon.

The final vital piece of evidence for me is that we have three teams joining us from the Championship, all of whom will have managers that have had a year there looking at other teams. None of them at this time have thought it worth taking a gamble on Vaughan as a player they feel would be an improvement on their squad or could offer them something.

In fact, Huddersfield hardly scraped through last season themselves, so you''d have to wonder that if they are winning the race if there are many others in it, if it is even a race.

Vaughan still has the potential to be a very good striker but needs game time now more than any other time in his career to date. He could stay here and go on loan but it doesn''t really further him. He needs to be able to commit to a team.

As for Butterfield, I think the jury is still out. It''s hard to say why he hasn''t re-caught that form he showed before his injury, but he has been out on loan to two clubs and hasn''t been seen as a regular by them either although taking part in 18 games in total.

At 23 he does have a bit more time on his hands but again needs regular football.

The problem for both of these players should they want to stay is the 25 man squad rule. If they stayed and were loaned out it would either be for the season or the next longest stint. They wouldn''t be named in the 25.

Look at where we are. We have more money but we still have to box clever. We don''t have the huge incomes of the likes of the top 6 to 8 premier league teams. Whilst we have more money now we have to make sure it is spent wisely.

Do we really want or need, or can we even afford to keep two players on the books that ''need more time''? They are taking up wages and resources that could be focused on players that are ready to deliver now.

It is very different when you are talking about genuinely ''young'' players. Players in the 17-21 bracket or even up to around 23 so long as they have an understanding that they are going out on loan to build themselves up. But when they start hitting that 23/24 age you have to make that decision on whether you feel they will reach that potential in the timescale you need them to.

Some players do develop later on, some develop rapidly at an early age and are identified as one for the future only for their development to fade off.

Its football. If neither are really seen as anything more than 3rd, 4th or 5th choice players what is the point?

I''d prefer that we have four or five strikers all competing to be in that starting line-up and with a good shout of doing so.

Holt, RVW, Becchio and one other. Becchio and Holt vying for that place alongside RVW or the other striker.

At the moment from what I have seen if we are to play a Wes type player I would have Howson ahead of Butterfield, maybe Snodgrass and Pilkington as well.

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