Ola Toivonen

[pilksfanclub 0]

You''re missing the point. The point is that fans don''t rate us as highly as they should because we are seen as small which leads to players like Ruddy etc being underrated. This has led to our odds not being in line with what they should be as they bet accordingly.What I was questioning, it was horrifically phrased, is why aren''t we being seen like a club like Villa who were as close as we were to the drop

Also bookmaker manipulation plays a part but this is mostly down to people underrating us.

[ellis206 0]

[quote user="pilksfanclub"][quote user="ellis206"][quote user="pilksfanclub"][quote user="sgncfc"]

And I can''t believe that a professional footballer in a European country has never heard of us - that is just nonsense and a smokescreen. If he really, genuinely has no knowledge of Norwich City as a football club then he is a very stupid, unprofessional man and I want nothing to do with him.

Its nothing to do with arrogance - just basic knowledge of the industry you work in. It would be like Grant Holt admitting he had never heard of someone like Getafe or Braga. We are on their television 6 times a year for heavens sake!

[/quote] No it wouldn''t as Getafe are a solid midtable team in Spain and Braga have played in the Champions league it would be more like saying haven''t heard of Guingamp or Evian in France. Or Augsburg or Nurnberg in Germany. Get the idea? Norwich are really very small. Haven''t achieved anything special. It doesn''t matter how many times on the television it''s there is nothing to make us stand out like say Swansea.[/quote]

 

Very strange opinion. First of all you are replying to a post in which the original poster clearly can''t read as he has never stated he hasn''t heard of Norwich, he just doesn''t know a lot about us because he only saw one premier league game last season, that would suggest he doesn''t know a lot about any of the teams.

And Norwich are really very small and we don''t stand out like Swansea???

In terms of size of fanbase, we are easily in the top 10 in the premier league.....

[/quote] Norwich''s fan base isn''t top 10. Swansea stand out due to manager, trophy, european football and to a lesser extent the style of football. Norwich don''t stand out at all there is nothing particularly special which makes us stand out compared to other premier league teams. In terms of the permier league we are small.[/quote]

I think people underestimate the size of our support, can''t remember where this came from but we apparently have the 11th biggest fan base in England. A lot of premier league clubs haven''t had the same level support as us, teams like Man City have always been similar size to us although probably inherited a load of plastics over the last couple of years.

Swansea, Cardiff, Hull, Stoke etc haven''t even been close to us over the last 15 years or so and have only enjoyed bumper gates since being in the premier league.

 

No team in the premier league stands out unless you are in the top 6

 

 

[pilksfanclub 0]

I would like to see that report!

Last 15 years is irrelevant what matters is now. Currently Swansea have European football and a big name manager. We don''t have that hence why they are more attractive.

I would argue the clubs which stand out are those with European football + Newcastle, Everton and Liverpool. After that indeed no one really stands out. Some like West Ham and Villa possibly marginally stand out a little more but as I say it is marginal. It is about money offered, playing time and feel. You have sort of agreed with me by pointing out no one really stands out. We blend into it even more than others.

[Webbo118 0]

[quote user="pilksfanclub"]I would like to see that report! Last 15 years is irrelevant what matters is now. Currently Swansea have European football and a big name manager. We don''t have that hence why they are more attractive. I would argue the clubs which stand out are those with European football + Newcastle, Everton and Liverpool. After that indeed no one really stands out. Some like West Ham and Villa possibly marginally stand out a little more but as I say it is marginal. It is about money offered, playing time and feel. You have sort of agreed with me by pointing out no one really stands out. We blend into it even more than others.[/quote]

Well you certainly stand out for producing a constant stream of garbage.

[ellis206 0]

[quote user="pilksfanclub"]I would like to see that report! Last 15 years is irrelevant what matters is now. Currently Swansea have European football and a big name manager. We don''t have that hence why they are more attractive. I would argue the clubs which stand out are those with European football + Newcastle, Everton and Liverpool. After that indeed no one really stands out. Some like West Ham and Villa possibly marginally stand out a little more but as I say it is marginal. It is about money offered, playing time and feel. You have sort of agreed with me by pointing out no one really stands out. We blend into it even more than others.[/quote]

 

Swansea are certainly more attractive than us this season, simply because of Europe.

But as a club I don''t think they''d be any more appealing to a European footballer than what we would be, in fact we would be more desirable I would imagine as we are relatively close to London.

 

Agree with the rest though

[pilksfanclub 0]

I agree with all of that. You aren''t disagreeing with me there. It is this season only the big attraction which is Europe. Unless they some how repeat it. Depending on they do in Europe it could make them more attractive in the future potentially but I am not convinced by that as a possibility. If they keep their manager for season after next they''ll still have that attraction.

@webbo back that up

[Webbo118 0]

[quote user="pilksfanclub"]You''re missing the point. The point is that fans don''t rate us as highly as they should because we are seen as small which leads to players like Ruddy etc being underrated. This has led to our odds not being in line with what they should be as they bet accordingly.What I was questioning, it was horrifically phrased, is why aren''t we being seen like a club like Villa who were as close as we were to the drop Also bookmaker manipulation plays a part but this is mostly down to people underrating us.[/quote]

 

1) Says who?

2) Says who?

3) Says who?

You are extremely good at talking for a great mass of other people. Where is the evidence? Where is the research? If it is just your opinion, make it clear that that is the case. Do not present it as fact.

[Webbo118 0]

[quote user="pilksfanclub"][quote user="ellis206"][quote user="pilksfanclub"][quote user="sgncfc"]

And I can''t believe that a professional footballer in a European country has never heard of us - that is just nonsense and a smokescreen. If he really, genuinely has no knowledge of Norwich City as a football club then he is a very stupid, unprofessional man and I want nothing to do with him.

Its nothing to do with arrogance - just basic knowledge of the industry you work in. It would be like Grant Holt admitting he had never heard of someone like Getafe or Braga. We are on their television 6 times a year for heavens sake!

[/quote] No it wouldn''t as Getafe are a solid midtable team in Spain and Braga have played in the Champions league it would be more like saying haven''t heard of Guingamp or Evian in France. Or Augsburg or Nurnberg in Germany. Get the idea? Norwich are really very small. Haven''t achieved anything special. It doesn''t matter how many times on the television it''s there is nothing to make us stand out like say Swansea.[/quote]

 

Very strange opinion. First of all you are replying to a post in which the original poster clearly can''t read as he has never stated he hasn''t heard of Norwich, he just doesn''t know a lot about us because he only saw one premier league game last season, that would suggest he doesn''t know a lot about any of the teams.

And Norwich are really very small and we don''t stand out like Swansea???

In terms of size of fanbase, we are easily in the top 10 in the premier league.....

[/quote] Norwich''s fan base isn''t top 10. Swansea stand out due to manager, trophy, european football and to a lesser extent the style of football. Norwich don''t stand out at all there is nothing particularly special which makes us stand out compared to other premier league teams. In terms of the permier league we are small.[/quote]

 

Perhaps you could tell us what it is that makes a Premier League Club particularly special and what it is that makes them stand out compared to other teams.

[Webbo118 0]

[quote user="pilksfanclub"][quote user="ellis206"][quote user="pilksfanclub"][quote user="sgncfc"]

And I can''t believe that a professional footballer in a European country has never heard of us - that is just nonsense and a smokescreen. If he really, genuinely has no knowledge of Norwich City as a football club then he is a very stupid, unprofessional man and I want nothing to do with him.

Its nothing to do with arrogance - just basic knowledge of the industry you work in. It would be like Grant Holt admitting he had never heard of someone like Getafe or Braga. We are on their television 6 times a year for heavens sake!

[/quote] No it wouldn''t as Getafe are a solid midtable team in Spain and Braga have played in the Champions league it would be more like saying haven''t heard of Guingamp or Evian in France. Or Augsburg or Nurnberg in Germany. Get the idea? Norwich are really very small. Haven''t achieved anything special. It doesn''t matter how many times on the television it''s there is nothing to make us stand out like say Swansea.[/quote]

 

Very strange opinion. First of all you are replying to a post in which the original poster clearly can''t read as he has never stated he hasn''t heard of Norwich, he just doesn''t know a lot about us because he only saw one premier league game last season, that would suggest he doesn''t know a lot about any of the teams.

And Norwich are really very small and we don''t stand out like Swansea???

In terms of size of fanbase, we are easily in the top 10 in the premier league.....

[/quote] Norwich''s fan base isn''t top 10. Swansea stand out due to manager, trophy, european football and to a lesser extent the style of football. Norwich don''t stand out at all there is nothing particularly special which makes us stand out compared to other premier league teams. In terms of the permier league we are small.[/quote]

Perhaps you could give your definition of "small" and a list of teams in the Premier League who are not small.

[pilksfanclub 0]

Superclubs: Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U and City.

Rung below: Spurs, Liverpool, Newcastle and Everton

Bit more established names: Villa, West Ham, Fulham and Stoke.

Then there is the rest really. Potentially could say Swansea in there but I don''t think they are more established just have Europe. I am assessing this on stature so finances are left out otherwise Southampton get stuck in there. They have better foundations than us but I think the gap is closing quickly.

I judge this on how long they have been established in the league what they have done so European appearances in recent years and a bit of history.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="pilksfanclub"]Superclubs: Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U and City.

Rung below: Spurs, Liverpool, Newcastle and Everton

Bit more established names: Villa, West Ham, Fulham and Stoke.

Then there is the rest really. Potentially could say Swansea in there but I don''t think they are more established just have Europe. I am assessing this on stature so finances are left out otherwise Southampton get stuck in there. They have better foundations than us but I think the gap is closing quickly.

I judge this on how long they have been established in the league what they have done so European appearances in recent years and a bit of history.[/quote]

I''ve made a similar point before - but was shot down for suggesting villa as a more attractive club than us. I agree with your group of teams mentioned, apart from stoke city, who I believe are in the same group as us. I also agree with your statement about Southampton. I can see them finishing 7/8th this year.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="lincoln canary"]Southampton. I can see them finishing 7/8th this year.[/quote]You saw us being relegated all last season. Predictions are not your strongest point Lincoln. [;)]

[Webbo118 0]

PFC is in real trouble if LC is agreeing with him. Says it all really!

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="pilksfanclub"]Superclubs: Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U and City.

Rung below: Spurs, Liverpool, Newcastle and Everton

Bit more established names: Villa, West Ham, Fulham and Stoke.

Then there is the rest really. Potentially could say Swansea in there but I don''t think they are more established just have Europe. I am assessing this on stature so finances are left out otherwise Southampton get stuck in there. They have better foundations than us but I think the gap is closing quickly.

I judge this on how long they have been established in the league what they have done so European appearances in recent years and a bit of history.[/quote]

No idea what your methodology is there.... where are Sunderland? West Brom?  Why are Fulham in this third tier whilst we are not? Because they have one famous striker and played a few games in Europe a couple of years ago? 

Don''t think your list can be taken the slightest bit seriously when you include Villa who have finished 15th and 16th in the last two years (and got knocked out of the league cup by Bradford) but can leave out West Brom, where Lukaku went on loan last season, or Sunderland.... who have just signed an Italy international, currently have Adam Johnson in their team, and play in front of 40000 per week.

Not all players just look at the status of a club, some of them have more sense. Bassong came here to play every week, if he was only interested in status he would stayed at Spurs and played 15 games a year like Joleon Lescott at Man City. 

Others only care about money, like Loic Remy. Why else would he have ignored Newcastle and joined a tinpot club? 

[calriv 0]

[quote user="pilksfanclub"]You''re missing the point. The point is that fans don''t rate us as highly as they should because we are seen as small which leads to players like Ruddy etc being underrated. This has led to our odds not being in line with what they should be as they bet accordingly.What I was questioning, it was horrifically phrased, is why aren''t we being seen like a club like Villa who were as close as we were to the drop

Also bookmaker manipulation plays a part but this is mostly down to people underrating us.[/quote]

 

 

Yeah, Ruddy''s so underrated that he''s got an England cap and would have more if he hadn''t got injured against Everton, and Chelsea offering £5m+ for him...

 

Also, who cares about odds and the bookies? We''re always favourites to go down every year.

[birchfest 397]

I can''t wait for this thread to go, the player isn''t coming and the discussion has once again descended into tangent

[Mervmeister 18]

[quote user="birchfest"]I can''t wait for this thread to go, the player isn''t coming and the discussion has once again descended into tangent[/quote]

Agreed

[pilksfanclub 0]

''No idea what your methodology is there.... where are Sunderland? West Brom? Why are Fulham in this third tier whilst we are not? Because they have one famous striker and played a few games in Europe a couple of years ago?

Don''t think your list can be taken the slightest bit seriously when you include Villa who have finished 15th and 16th in the last two years (and got knocked out of the league cup by Bradford) but can leave out West Brom, where Lukaku went on loan last season, or Sunderland.... who have just signed an Italy international, currently have Adam Johnson in their team, and play in front of 40000 per week.

Not all players just look at the status of a club, some of them have more sense. Bassong came here to play every week, if he was only interested in status he would stayed at Spurs and played 15 games a year like Joleon Lescott at Man City.

Others only care about money, like Loic Remy. Why else would he have ignored Newcastle and joined a tinpot club?''

There isn''t a precise methodology as I do have better things to do anyway. I''ll take this apart bit by bit. 1) Sunderland fair I considered putting them there but decided they hadn''t done enough recently. 2) WBA same applies. League finishes aren''t a huge part of this and they haven''t played in Europe recently hence why Fulham who made the final get the nod over them but again I considered them

Not sure about the relevance of Lukaku going on loan there it doesn''t add to stature he is hardly a huge player. Adam Johnson is useless. The Italian international isn''t a great player either tbh.

The original argument stemmed from whether he should know more about norwich and the answer is no. Anyway I won''t bother replying again after this

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="pilksfanclub"]Not sure about the relevance of Lukaku going on loan there it doesn''t add to stature he is hardly a huge player. [/quote]

At 6ft 3" and 220 Ibs, he can hardly be considered small! 

[Baracouda 47]

I think many people are very unfair on Ola.

Just having turned 27, this could well be his last ''big'' transfer and opportunity to play for Liverpool (I believe he''s holding out for if the press are to be believed).

As Norwich push our current boundaries in the short term I''m sure there will be many more disappointments for the club in transfer targets but equally there will be great success stories like signing RvW, Fer and Olsson.

[Joanna Grey 0]

To Liverpool? I thought WBA might be interested but not heard anything about Liverpool.

[SYG 0]

Latest, could this still happen?

http://www.clubcall.com/norwich-city/toivonen-teases-canaries-1611307.html

[Alex Moss 2,165]

Interesting. But who would we prefer to see at Carrow Rd - Quagliarella or Toivonen?. With Valencia allegedly throwing their hat into to the ring for Quag, is it now looking more likely we''ll end up with Toivonen, especially given FQ has gone off to train with Juve after we''ve apparently held further talks with him? Doesn''t look like we''ve convinced him so far.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="SYG"]Latest, could this still happen?

http://www.clubcall.com/norwich-city/toivonen-teases-canaries-1611307.html[/quote]I think you''ve dug up some old news from a site that''s dug up some old news........

[SYG 0]

It was posted 40 mins ago?

With new quotes from Ola, how''s that old news?!

[ReadingCanary 0]

[quote user="Alex "]Interesting. But who would we prefer to see at Carrow Rd - Quagliarella or Toivonen?. With Valencia allegedly throwing their hat into to the ring for Quag, is it now looking more likely we''ll end up with Toivonen, especially given FQ has gone off to train with Juve after we''ve apparently held further talks with him? Doesn''t look like we''ve convinced him so far.[/quote]Toivonen.Our biggest problem is the supply to the strikersToivonen is just perfect for that

[Mason 47 1,379]

Quag would give us more of a spark upfront for close games, a little bit of unexpected magic etc.

Toivonen would be more functional, would certainly tick a lot of boxes in terms of what we need to add in attack.

I''d say Ola would still be most suitable for us.

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="SYG"]Latest, could this still happen?

http://www.clubcall.com/norwich-city/toivonen-teases-canaries-1611307.html[/quote]I think you''ve dug up some old news from a site that''s dug up some old news........[/quote]

 

It is not old news. It''s the top item on the PSV news section of Voetbal International, which is where the English web site found it. The quote from the PSV manager also suggests, surprise, surprise, that if Toivonen stayed he would not find himself exiled to the reserves.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="SYG"]Latest, could this still happen? http://www.clubcall.com/norwich-city/toivonen-teases-canaries-1611307.html[/quote]
I think you''ve dug up some old news from a site that''s dug up some old news........[/quote]

 

It is not old news. It''s the top item on the PSV news section of Voetbal International, which is where the English web site found it. The quote from the PSV manager also suggests, surprise, surprise, that if Toivonen stayed he would not find himself exiled to the reserves.

[/quote]

 

It''s fresh quotes, that have been prompted by Toivonen not being registered in PSV''s Champions League squad for preliminary games (the deadline was last night).

 

Just fits into Toivonen waiting for the best possible offer, if he waits too long Norwich will remove their interest.

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="SYG"]Latest, could this still happen? http://www.clubcall.com/norwich-city/toivonen-teases-canaries-1611307.html[/quote]I think you''ve dug up some old news from a site that''s dug up some old news........[/quote]

 

It is not old news. It''s the top item on the PSV news section of Voetbal International, which is where the English web site found it. The quote from the PSV manager also suggests, surprise, surprise, that if Toivonen stayed he would not find himself exiled to the reserves.

[/quote]

 

It''s fresh quotes, that have been prompted by Toivonen not being registered in PSV''s Champions League squad for preliminary games (the deadline was last night).

 

Just fits into Toivonen waiting for the best possible offer, if he waits too long Norwich will remove their interest.

[/quote]

 

He was an unused sub last night, Bethnal. You may be right that he wasn''t registered and so couldn''t play, but he was theoretically at least on the bench.