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Syteanric

what do the fans want?

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at 1-0 down he takes a midfielder off and brings a striker on, to chase the game.... it works, we stretch Villa, we win a penalty... We score...Fans coming out of the ground moaning about taking Wes off, who would you have taken off to bring Kamara on and what impact would it have had on the wider game?Villa scored with 1 minute of Normal time remaining, There isn''t a single person in the stadium who would have even thought about bringing Jackson on 10 minutes earlier.... so all this "Too late Hughton!!!" shouts don''t cut it.... taking a defender off and bringing a striker on in Injury time... I wonder what all the master tacticians on here would have done.. probably sat with their thumbs up their backsides....Like it or not it was the usual suspects, Snodgrass, Howson and Johnson who lost us the game today... 2nd best to so many balls, so many tackles missed, Switiching off twice allowed Villa to score. slow to break, slow to challenge, unable to affect the play, we have a championship midfield.. and yes.. I Include Wes in that.... so many games he hasn''t had an impact.the midfield is responsible for both attack and defence and can do neither effectively. We tried attacking Villa today and at times it went well... more often than not we failed, time and time again with a lack of ideas.So, what do all the fans want? When the middle of the pitch is out of its depth and NONE of them deserve to play Next week, lets hear how you would change it?

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It''s easy and convenient to assume that all the people moaning about one thing were the same people moaning about the opposite, but impossible to prove and actually very unlikely, as it''s always a minority that are vocal about any given opinion.

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]Like it or not it was the usual suspects, Snodgrass, Howson and Johnson who lost us the game today... 2nd best to so many balls, so many tackles missed, Switiching off twice allowed Villa to score.[/quote]And which two of those midfielders stayed on the pitch to the end whilst Wes was sacrificed to bring on Kamara? That''s right - both of them...Howson has spent most of the season as a passenger, Johnson can''t pass for toffee, yet who gets taken off when we need a goal...It''s BS decisions like this that grate with a number of fans (myself included), because Hughton is so unwilling to part with his precious defensive midfield and actually attack a game, when he could easily have taken off one of Howson or Johnno for Kamara, and then even played the classic diamond we were known for in recent seasons.Instead it''s our most creative midfielder that gets binned, whilst those two defend it up in the middle when we need to push for goal.Those players you mentioned may have cost us badly today, but which clown kept them on the pitch instead of realising they were having a bad game and changing them Jas...???

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The main issue here is that there are a lot of people on this forum that really don''t know as much about football, as they think they do.

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[quote user="morty"]The main issue here is that there are a lot of people on this forum that really don''t know as much about football, as they think they do.[/quote]That''s odd because I thought the main issue was having a guy in charge who''s got us playing some of the worst football we''ve seen since the days Peter Grant and Roeder, and being on the verge of going down because the same idiot cannot, or will not see that his current plan is NOT working and change things accordingly...

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So Johnson and howson were two of the players that lost us the game but its Wes that you think correctly got subbed?

An attacking midfielder was taken off for a striker while 2 holding midfielders were left on. So, admittedly slightly more attacking but KK was never going to create like Wes and we relied on balls into the box from the wings which never really materialised (other than winning the pen).

Wy not take off one of the holding players and bring KK on with Wes still on the pitch. At the time it''s 1-0 in a game we need to win

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I think Holt should of been taken off for Kamara. He had a few chances today and didn''t convert any (save the penalty, but it was a penalty...). I mean his miss at end gave me a headache which I''ve still got.

He needs to shape up, or ship out.

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[quote user="BWs Cat "]I think Holt should of been taken off for Kamara. He had a few chances today and didn''t convert any (save the penalty, but it was a penalty...). I mean his miss at end gave me a headache which I''ve still got.

He needs to shape up, or ship out.[/quote]I agree.

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Morty

 

Have you ever considered that it is in fact you that thinks they more about football than they really do? You suggest taking off a striker and replacing him for another striker would''ve suddenly increased our chances of scoring?

 

As someone who has played football probably to a far higher standard than you, I suggest that the reason Holt has had such a poor season, and why he comes in for such criticism from you, is not because he has scored only 6 goals, but because he has been starved of any decent service or support up front. You could play any very good striker up top isolated and they would struggle to produce anything of note. Put a guy up against Premiership defenders isolated and they are going to struggle a great deal.

 

The problem Holt has had this season is our midfield has sat far too deep. And this is all to do with Hughton''s utter terror at losing games. when we played the diamond under Lambert, Holt had lots of support and chances to get onto, and he was excellent, scoring 16 Premiership goals. The problem isn''t Holt. It''s Hughton and his demented tactics.

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BW, agree to an extent RE Holt for Kamara. Thing is, Kamara never really looks like scoring, some of his build up play is relatively good though.

I do think taking off Wes was the wrong decision but was slightly taken aback by the boo''s. Whether you like it or not he was our most creative influence and taking him off made it very hard for us to link up the midfield to the attack - saying that Howson done quite well.

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[quote user="Canary Poirot"]

Morty

 

Have you ever considered that it is in fact you that thinks they more about football than they really do? You suggest taking off a striker and replacing him for another striker would''ve suddenly increased our chances of scoring?

 

As someone who has played football probably to a far higher standard than you, I suggest that the reason Holt has had such a poor season, and why he comes in for such criticism from you, is not because he has scored only 6 goals, but because he has been starved of any decent service or support up front. You could play any very good striker up top isolated and they would struggle to produce anything of note. Put a guy up against Premiership defenders isolated and they are going to struggle a great deal.

 

The problem Holt has had this season is our midfield has sat far too deep. And this is all to do with Hughton''s utter terror at losing games. when we played the diamond under Lambert, Holt had lots of support and chances to get onto, and he was excellent, scoring 16 Premiership goals. The problem isn''t Holt. It''s Hughton and his demented tactics.

[/quote]Firstly, I have very rarely criticised Holt.Secondly, in my opinion it needed a change up front. I wasn''t discussing the whys and wherefores of how our midfield is set up.Thirdly, how do you know you have played football at a higher standard than me?

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"Thirdly, how do you know you have played football at a higher standard than me?"

 

Because unless you''re a former professional, you won''t be able to trump my conference level.

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[quote user="Canary Poirot"]

"Thirdly, how do you know you have played football at a higher standard than me?"

 

Because unless you''re a former professional, you won''t be able to trump my conference level.

[/quote]Link to your Wikipedia page or I call BS........ [;)]

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[quote user="Chunky Norwich"]I think fans want this same ''rubbish'' midfield to put in the kinds of performances they did under Lambert[/quote]Crofts and fox were part of that midfield....

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[quote user="Unhinged Canary"][quote user="Canary Poirot"]

"Thirdly, how do you know you have played football at a higher standard than me?"

 

Because unless you''re a former professional, you won''t be able to trump my conference level.

[/quote]Link to your Wikipedia page or I call BS........ [;)][/quote]^^^This.

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Sorry Unhinged Canary/Morty - I don''t have a wikipedia entry - I was never a pro. It was all quite a long time ago, for a team long since gone south. And I was only a young thing at the time.

 

All I wanted to do is stop Morty pulling his "I know more about football than you" card to Indy Bones when I thought Indy was making a very good argument. So I had to put Morty in his place. Of course, if a pro came along he could shut me up as I have no experience of higher level football. 

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[quote user="Canary Poirot"]

Sorry Unhinged Canary/Morty - I don''t have a wikipedia entry - I was never a pro. It was all quite a long time ago, for a team long since gone south. And I was only a young thing at the time.

 

All I wanted to do is stop Morty pulling his "I know more about football than you" card to Indy Bones when I thought Indy was making a very good argument. So I had to put Morty in his place. Of course, if a pro came along he could shut me up as I have no experience of higher level football. 

[/quote]Yeah, that really showed me, well played lol[Y]Please point out where I told Indy that I know more about football than he does. I made a statement saying that a lot of people here don''t know as much as they would like to think about football, but I don''t believe I actually pointed the finger at any individual?Now if he took personal offence to my generic statement, thats not really my problem, is it?

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="Chunky Norwich"]I think fans want this same ''rubbish'' midfield to put in the kinds of performances they did under Lambert[/quote]

Crofts and fox were part of that midfield....
[/quote]

 

Fox is still here and you''re not honestly telling me that Snodgrass and Tettey aren''t an improvement on Crofts on the right hand side of midfield, not that Crofts figured much last year.

 

The midfield is the problem, and it''s a problem of Hughton''s making. The shackles have to come off next week or we''ll be in the Championship next season. It''s that simple.

 

Quite what David Fox has to do to get a game is beyond me.

 

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

Like it or not it was the usual suspects, Snodgrass, Howson and Johnson who lost us the game today...
[/quote]

Utter, utter tosh but I expect nothing less from you.

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[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

Like it or not it was the usual suspects, Snodgrass, Howson and Johnson who lost us the game today...
[/quote]

Utter, utter tosh but I expect nothing less from you.

[/quote]

What crap jas. absolute garbage.

Howson had a very good game today. The other 2 were only just behind him.

The difference today was the attack. Our midfield measured up quite well against theirs.

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We played the open football against Villa that everybody was calling for. The fullbacks were overlapping and the defensive line pushed further up the field. And the result of this Villa scored twice on fast-counter attacking play.

Had we played as we have been doing Villa would never have broken down our defence and we could have won it on the penalty. Instead we went for it, just as the fans demanded and ended up losing all three points.

Even a 0-0 draw would have given us a point and life would have been much different today. Be careful what you wish for.

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[quote user="Rock The Boat"]We played the open football against Villa that everybody was calling for.[/quote]Yet still insisted on playing Holt as the lone striker when he doesn''t like the role, isn''t actually very effective at it because he drifts to the wing too often, and we don''t get the support from midfield needed to cover him when he does this leaving a huge gap in the area where we have ZERO strikers...Today was crying out for the return of the diamond, play Holt with a proper strike partner, drop one of the DM''s in exchange, and get the wingers to whip plenty of balls into the box for people like Holt and Kamara to attack.Hughton seems to think that he''s still got either Andy Carroll or Nicola Zigic when in fact it''s Grant Holt, who despite his build, does not play like either of them...

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