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lake district canary

This is not Armageddon

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[quote user="sgncfc"]

Actually I think it is Armageddon in a footballing sense. This has all the hallmarks of 1995 - a massively expanding financial Premier League, a Championship full of big clubs and a Norwich City manager who can''t win games. If we go down, and although I hate to say it I think it is likely, we could take 10 years to get back.

I think Hughton is an honourable, decent man and I have absolutely no doubt that he will offer his resignation if we are relegated. I suspect McNally will too. I also suspect neither will be accepted.

We have one game to save ourselves - it''s almost a playoff final except we are at home against a team with nothing to play for except professional pride and in front of a passionate, desperate crowd. If we can''t win that one game, then we are looking at mid-table Championship next year. Not even a double over 1p5wich will make me feel better.

[/quote]

 

I wouldn''t expect McNally to offer to resign, and I wouldn''t advocate it. But there is another offer he might sensibly make, to save the board the embarrassment of making the decision for him.He shouldn''t be rewarded for his share of the blame (if etc etc etc) by a bonus. The specific criteria have never been made public but the £967,000 bonus he received in the last financial year was for "achieving an improved financial performance and retention of Premier League status". Now although it will not affect this year''s accounts, losing PL status will severely affect  next year''s.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"]

Stig How did the parachute payments work out for Wolves, Blackburn and Bolton? Going down is not a good thing and the club should have done everything in it''s power to make sure it didn''t happen. Instead, like you, they have stood idly by pretending everything would come good. Instead when the fixture list got drawn and we saw City as our last game and we all crossed our fingers that we wouldn''t need anything from them, the inevitable has slowly arrived and no action has been taken. But that''s alright - let''s look at the positive reasons why this has all happened, eh?


But we aren''t Wolves Blackburn or Bolton, are we?   
No one is being overly positive.   We don''t want to go down, but we could.  That is the real picture.  Hughton as shown in previous positions is not a negative manager, but is in favour of a more balanced approach than someone like Lambert - who as we all know would have struggled this season too, if he had stayed here.      He hasn''t had time to build his team yet.   Give him another year - if he doesn''t start showing improved attack with more goals - whichever division we are in - then yes, that would be a time to change.   If he suceeds in building the team next year it means we will do better in the premiership if we are still in it, or we will be doing well in the championship.   Success is success- but if it doesn''t happen, then yes, that would be the time to move him on. 
[/quote]

Do we all know that?

[/quote]


Oh come on, we all saw how things were not so good in the closing part of last season.   The signs were there. 



[/quote]

 

So Lambert, armed with at least the budget given to Hughton, would not have spent the money to improve the squad while learning from any mistakes as a first-time manager in the Premier League? You are in the contradictory position of assuming that Hughton will improve as a manager while claiming as a fact that Lambert would not have.

[/quote]

 

Purple, it''s good to see you back on your normal track of separating assumptions from facts. [:D] However, take it easy on LDC. When he is confronted with intelligent input showing a weakness or error in his thought process it can cause him to announce his "goodbye" to the message board, followed by a hasty return indicating to those welcoming his return that "he just needed a break." [:D]

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"]

Stig How did the parachute payments work out for Wolves, Blackburn and Bolton? Going down is not a good thing and the club should have done everything in it''s power to make sure it didn''t happen. Instead, like you, they have stood idly by pretending everything would come good. Instead when the fixture list got drawn and we saw City as our last game and we all crossed our fingers that we wouldn''t need anything from them, the inevitable has slowly arrived and no action has been taken. But that''s alright - let''s look at the positive reasons why this has all happened, eh?

But we aren''t Wolves Blackburn or Bolton, are we?    No one is being overly positive.   We don''t want to go down, but we could.  That is the real picture.  Hughton as shown in previous positions is not a negative manager, but is in favour of a more balanced approach than someone like Lambert - who as we all know would have struggled this season too, if he had stayed here.      He hasn''t had time to build his team yet.   Give him another year - if he doesn''t start showing improved attack with more goals - whichever division we are in - then yes, that would be a time to change.   If he suceeds in building the team next year it means we will do better in the premiership if we are still in it, or we will be doing well in the championship.   Success is success- but if it doesn''t happen, then yes, that would be the time to move him on.  [/quote]

Do we all know that?

[/quote]

Oh come on, we all saw how things were not so good in the closing part of last season.   The signs were there. 

[/quote]

 

So Lambert, armed with at least the budget given to Hughton, would not have spent the money to improve the squad while learning from any mistakes as a first-time manager in the Premier League? You are in the contradictory position of assuming that Hughton will improve as a manager while claiming as a fact that Lambert would not have.

[/quote]

 

Purple, it''s good to see you back on your normal track of separating assumptions from facts. [+o(] However, take it easy on LDC. When he is confronted with intelligent input showing a weakness or error in his thought process it can cause him to announce his "goodbye" to the message board, followed by a hasty return indicating to those welcoming his return that "he just needed a break." [:$]

[/quote]
Let''s hope he doesn''t forget his password this time

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Purple, it''s good to see you back on your normal track of separating assumptions from facts. [:D] However, take it easy on LDC. When he is confronted with intelligent input showing a weakness or error in his thought process it can cause him to announce his "goodbye" to the message board, followed by a hasty return indicating to those welcoming his return that "he just needed a break." [:D]

[/quote]

That LDC has learnt his lesson, Yankee.   Much more aware now of how things work on here.   Anyway, my opinion is as valid as anyone else''s.     My opinion is that Hughton is a better long term bet as a manager for us than Lambert would have been.  No facts, just opinion.    

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For a club like ours to survive in the Premiership year on year we have to have a good to exceptional manager who can always get the best out of players. Hughton is an average manager, good enough for most championship clubs, or could probably keep a bigger mid table prem side like Fulham at mid table year on year but he isn;t good enough for us!

The reason he has no faith in our attacking players is because he can''t utilize them in the same way a good Manager like Lambert could. It''s his short comings that mean we needed to destroy our attractive and effective style of play from the past few years. He has a good eye for a player and has brought some real quality to the squat BUT we still find ourselves teetering on the brink of relegation and looking like a shocking side in every game despite the quality of the players he''s brought in.

He needs to go at the end of the season or we''ll go down next year for sure!

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Purple, it''s good to see you back on your normal track of separating assumptions from facts. [:D] However, take it easy on LDC. When he is confronted with intelligent input showing a weakness or error in his thought process it can cause him to announce his "goodbye" to the message board, followed by a hasty return indicating to those welcoming his return that "he just needed a break." [:D]

[/quote]

That LDC has learnt his lesson, Yankee.   Much more aware now of how things work on here.   Anyway, my opinion is as valid as anyone else''s.     My opinion is that Hughton is a better long term bet as a manager for us than Lambert would have been.  No facts, just opinion.    

[/quote]
Which we are well aware of, seeing as that just isn''t the case.

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[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]You''re not serious?[/quote]

Long term in the premiership?  Yes, I am serious.   Lambert has the ability to get teams to compete well but his defences are below standard, as demonstrated here and at AV.   Imo Hughton has addressed that, will build a more balanced team, get in players that have quality on the ball and we will see a consistent balanced team develop that will stand the test of time.    But it will take time.  

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[quote user="lake district canary"]Look,  I know we''re all peed off about losing yesterday, but once the emotion has died down a bit, you will see that the performance, tactics and effort were all there yesterday.    What was lacking was the final cross, pass, or quality free kick that was needed.   Everything else was good.   We were beaten by a quality pacey striker who unfortunately found his form at the wrong time for us. 

You can lambast Hughton and that is your right and he does take ultimate responsibility for the team, but substitutions were good, we had plenty of good possession, had Villa with their backs to the wall.    Then there is that free kick that Pilks should have taken - and the crosses that Snodgrass put in that were frankly clogs.    It is the players responsibility to play the game.   You can''t blame Hughton!   He took off Wes at the right time as he starts to slow after about an hour.   He took off Snodgrass which was right imo  (I would have taken him off sooner as for all his huff and puff, did little of any quality).  He brought on attackers.    Good management  and yesterday was not the dire performance some have made out.   Also, we are still three points ahead and have the opportunity of a home game next week. 

It is not over yet.  Sunderland and Newcastle are struggling too and Wigan have difficult games too.  

Keep the faith!

[/quote]LDC - if you are going to support Hughton at least try to get the facts correct - he did not take Snodgrass off because of a tactical change, Snodgrass pulled/tweaked his hamstring.  How do i now? Because Snodgrass sat down on the pitch 10 yards in front of me and signalled to the bench that he needed to come off - maybe you couldnt see that on your internet stream but you have highlighted Hughton''s apparent tactical nous in taking Snodgrass off as part of a justification that he is a good manager.  Now that you are aware that he was going to continue with a player whose only contribution was apparently "huff and puff" presumably you will reevaluate his tactical ability

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He doesn''t have time! He has 2 games!

He''s conceded marginally less goals than Lambert''s team did, his team have conceded 10 less in 36 games than Lambert''s did in 38 last term, and with a trip to the Etihad to come that margin will be smaller after the full 38. Keep in mind that by achieving back to back promotions Lambert didn''t ever have the luxury of building a squad, it required fairly major surgeries in both summers, making his achievement even more remarkable.

But that marginal improvement has come at the almost full sacrifice of any attacking threat.

If you don''t think Lambert would have improved the defence this season but without neutralising our attacking threat then frankly you should see a mental health professional at the earliest opportunity.

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[quote user="whistleblower"][quote user="lake district canary"]Look,  I know we''re all peed off about losing yesterday, but once the emotion has died down a bit, you will see that the performance, tactics and effort were all there yesterday.    What was lacking was the final cross, pass, or quality free kick that was needed.   Everything else was good.   We were beaten by a quality pacey striker who unfortunately found his form at the wrong time for us.  You can lambast Hughton and that is your right and he does take ultimate responsibility for the team, but substitutions were good, we had plenty of good possession, had Villa with their backs to the wall.    Then there is that free kick that Pilks should have taken - and the crosses that Snodgrass put in that were frankly clogs.    It is the players responsibility to play the game.   You can''t blame Hughton!   He took off Wes at the right time as he starts to slow after about an hour.   He took off Snodgrass which was right imo  (I would have taken him off sooner as for all his huff and puff, did little of any quality).  He brought on attackers.    Good management  and yesterday was not the dire performance some have made out.   Also, we are still three points ahead and have the opportunity of a home game next week.  It is not over yet.  Sunderland and Newcastle are struggling too and Wigan have difficult games too.   Keep the faith![/quote]LDC - if you are going to support Hughton at least try to get the facts correct - he did not take Snodgrass off because of a tactical change, Snodgrass pulled/tweaked his hamstring.  How do i now? Because Snodgrass sat down on the pitch 10 yards in front of me and signalled to the bench that he needed to come off - maybe you couldnt see that on your internet stream but you have highlighted Hughton''s apparent tactical nous in taking Snodgrass off as part of a justification that he is a good manager.  Now that you are aware that he was going to continue with a player whose only contribution was apparently "huff and puff" presumably you will reevaluate his tactical ability[/quote]

Thanks, I didn''t know that.     The fact is I was getting really cheesed of with Snodgrass, always wanting the ball and then not doing anything constructive with it.   Won the penalty, yes, but how many times did he fail to put in a decent cross?   As for Hughton''s abilities, we can all have opinions on that.   I still think that given time he will develop the team and style of play to be more like those of his last two clubs - and that was far from defensive.

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Purple, it''s good to see you back on your normal track of separating assumptions from facts. [:D] However, take it easy on LDC. When he is confronted with intelligent input showing a weakness or error in his thought process it can cause him to announce his "goodbye" to the message board, followed by a hasty return indicating to those welcoming his return that "he just needed a break." [:D]

[/quote]


That LDC has learnt his lesson, Yankee.   Much more aware now of how things work on here.  

Anyway, my opinion is as valid as anyone else''s.    

My opinion is that Hughton is a better long term bet as a manager for us than Lambert would have been. 

No facts, just opinion.    



[/quote]

Jeez..... Hughton better than Lambert. I''ve heard it all now. [:D]    

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[quote user="lake district canary"]
No one is being overly positive.   We don''t want to go down, but we could.  That is the real picture.  Hughton as shown in previous positions is not a negative manager.

[/quote]That may be, but my word he has been bloody negative here, from negative formations, to playing for 0-0s, to having no belief in the squad.  Even one of the players has accused him of such. The players even spoke about getting 6 draws to stay up.  Embarrassing.If we go down, it is the fault of the manager''s negative tactics, and going to places like Stoke looking for a 0-0.  Villa didn''t come here looking for a draw.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]

My opinion is that Hughton is a better long term bet as a manager for us than Lambert would have been. 

[/quote]Pull the other one... Lambert took over Villa, overhauled the squad and has got them improving now.  Lambert''s trend for constant improvement he showed with us is starting to show itself at Villa.In League one we started slowly and in the end won the league. The Championship, the same, slow progress to breaking into the play-offs and finally winning promotion.  Again in the Premiership, started slowly but in the end stayed up effectively with 8 games to play.Hoot is struggling to make this season a success.

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