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BroadstairsR

So if Hughton's such a disaster

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Nobody is saying last year''s team was crap, Indy, but, with the exception of Ruddy, they were all players from the lower leagues. I think the adrenalin had already run out at the end of last season when a run of 12 games saw 2 wins, 2 draws and 8 losses. I think PL thought that as well, so he left. I also notice that you neatly sidestep the issue about why Pardew and Lambert are struggling this season? Even Harry hasn''t exactly performed miracles at QPR. Why is that?

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[quote user="dpj canary"]

[quote user="Orford65"]Bet Manure are glad they did''nt dump Fergie when his team was struggling after he took over![/quote]

 

 

Ye Gods! are you seriously comparing the two?

 

Nurse!

[/quote]Err! No. Just pointing out that the axe was hovering over Fergie at one point and look what he went on to do.

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[quote user="dpj canary"]

[quote user="Norwich or die tryin"]Wigan loose one game and people are backing this muppet up again![/quote]

 

It makes you weep doesn''t it?

 

IF we stay up it''ll be despite him not because of him, the same crew who backed Worthy until the bitter end are doing the same with Hughton.

 

They make me vomit!

[/quote]

 

Oh yeah because it was a field of roses when Worthy got pushed out wasn''t it...... and this same crew you are talking about are also the one''s who didn''t claim their rebate upon relegation which helped us buy Grant Holt who ultimately fired us in to the premiership..... the same negative people on here were refusing to "give the club any more of their money"

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nutty nigel wrote the following: I haven''t seen this interview with Bassong but if it hasn''t been taken out of context then it really does put the ball firmly in McNally and Bowkett''s court.

The interview is here:

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/photos-and-videos/videos/norwich-sebastien-bassong-on-life-in-premier-league.html

In the end it matters not if he is a defensive or attacking manager. My own view is we could be doing better if we showed a more positive approach, especially in game. But there is no reason to be over-critical if Hughton''s methods keep us up. And of course, his signings have been very good for the most part.

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Yelloow Since 72 said: I think the adrenalin had already run out at the end of last season when a run of 12 games saw 2 wins, 2 draws and 8 losses. I think PL thought that as well, so he left. I also notice that you neatly sidestep the issue about why Pardew and Lambert are struggling this season? Even Harry hasn''t exactly performed miracles at QPR. Why is that?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course we were already safe with 8 games to go... Players on the beach perhaps, Lambert messing around with the formation.. Seems to have happened to Swansea this season.

By the way our last 12 results in 2011-12 were 3 wins 3 draws and 6 defeats.

Our current last 12 games is 2 wins 5 draws 5 defeats... less points... Seems the adrenalin has really run out this season and the games are still meaningful....

Harry took over an overpaid, overrated QPR side already deep in the mire, it wouldn''t be the first time he has taken a side down. Lambert has struggled, but his side have improved massively since Christmas, only next season will we see if this is genuine improvement. Pardew, who knows, I was amazed he took them so high last season.

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[quote user="dpj canary"]

[quote user="Norwich or die tryin"]Wigan loose one game and people are backing this muppet up again![/quote]

 

It makes you weep doesn''t it?

 

IF we stay up it''ll be despite him not because of him, the same crew who backed Worthy until the bitter end are doing the same with Hughton.

 

They make me vomit!

[/quote]

I''m getting so sick of this ''in spite of him not because of him'' // ''we''ve been dependent on other teams'' rubbish. If we finish on 39 or 41 points and stay up, then will it not have been him that got us those points? Or is there some weird system whereby Wigan and Swansea etc have contributed to our points tally?

Yes, we''ve had a woeful second half of the season but if we stay up it will be because we (i.e. Hughton''s team) earned more points than the teams that end up below us - is that simple enough.

I''m not sticking up for Hughton in particular as of course I''ve been disappointed with our displays since Christmas, but this weird line of thinking in which somehow we don''t deserve to stay in the league because we''ve depended on other teams is crackers.

If we stay up it will be because we have earned more points than the teams that go down. Simple as that.

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ellis206 wrote the following post: Didn''t I read somewhere as well that we have been operating on the 2nd worst transfer budget and 2nd worse wage budget in the league?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No idea about wages, I imagine we are the lowest, or at least close... but how about this for transfers: http://transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/transfer-league-table-last-five-seasons.html

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It shows that we''ve spent the second least amount of money and that we''ve recouped the second least amount of money.

 

I''d say that it was fairly predictable. Where is the revelation?

 

 

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]No idea about wages, I imagine we are the lowest, or at least close... but how about this for transfers: http://transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/transfer-league-table-last-five-seasons.html[/quote]With an estimated 41 mil a season, then wages wise, only Southampton, Wigan (37 mil each), Reading and Swansea (34 mil each) are paying less than we are annually.Next up are WBA with 48 mil, Villa are on 75 mil and at the top it''s unsurprisingly Man City with 200 mil!The full list is here:[url]http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/latest-news/wage-and-the-premier-league-scaled-table[/url]

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]No idea about wages, I imagine we are the lowest, or at least close... but how about this for transfers: http://transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/transfer-league-table-last-five-seasons.html[/quote]
With an estimated 41 mil a season, then wages wise, only Southampton, Wigan (37 mil each), Reading and Swansea (34 mil each) are paying less than we are annually.

Next up are WBA with 48 mil, Villa are on 75 mil and at the top it''s unsurprisingly Man City with 200 mil!

The full list is here:
[url]http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/latest-news/wage-and-the-premier-league-scaled-table[/url]
[/quote]

Those figures are from last season or based on guesswork - I''m 90% sure Southampton wages will be higher than that now, considering the addition of players like Ramires.

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]No idea about wages, I imagine we are the lowest, or at least close... but how about this for transfers: http://transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/transfer-league-table-last-five-seasons.html[/quote]
With an estimated 41 mil a season, then wages wise, only Southampton, Wigan (37 mil each), Reading and Swansea (34 mil each) are paying less than we are annually.

Next up are WBA with 48 mil, Villa are on 75 mil and at the top it''s unsurprisingly Man City with 200 mil!

The full list is here:
[url]http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/latest-news/wage-and-the-premier-league-scaled-table[/url]
[/quote]

 

That is interesting. I''m a little surprised that we are apparently paying more than Wigan and Southampton but..

 

So on wages at least, our current position is bang on. Villa''s bill is nearly double ours though for 2 points more, so if we are performing as expected, they are massively underachieving. Of course wages only tell part of the story as people like Bent are going to be on huge wages and he has hardly kicked a ball..that''s up to the manager though, isn''t it?[;)]

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Those figures are from last

season or based on guesswork - I''m 90% sure Southampton wages will be

higher than that now, considering the addition of players like

Ramires.[/quote]That''s a fair point BYG, and it does say on the article it''s based on either published wage reports from 11/12 or estimated figures as close as can be given.[quote user="Warren Hill"]That is interesting. I''m a little surprised that we are apparently paying more than Wigan and Southampton but.. 

So on wages at least, our current position is bang on. Villa''s bill is nearly double ours though for 2 points more, so if we are performing as expected, they are massively underachieving. Of course wages only tell part of the story as people like Bent are going to be on huge wages and he has hardly kicked a ball..that''s up to the manager though, isn''t it?[;)][/quote]

That was one of the key areas that Lerner wanted Lambert to fix apparently, which is why we''ve seen so many younger players this season as Lambert desperately tries to help offload the big earners whilst still developing a squad that can compete...

I actually think that our wage bill isn''t fully representative of some of the quality we have, but this is mainly due to the fast track progression through the leagues, give it another year or two and I expect we''ll be much closer to WBA''s bill (or higher) - assuming we bring in the players that are needed to develop the squad going forwards.

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Those figures are from last season or based on guesswork - I''m 90% sure Southampton wages will be higher than that now, considering the addition of players like Ramires.[/quote]
That''s a fair point BYG, and it does say on the article it''s based on either published wage reports from 11/12 or estimated figures as close as can be given.
[quote user="Warren Hill"]That is interesting. I''m a little surprised that we are apparently paying more than Wigan and Southampton but.. 

So on wages at least, our current position is bang on. Villa''s bill is nearly double ours though for 2 points more, so if we are performing as expected, they are massively underachieving. Of course wages only tell part of the story as people like Bent are going to be on huge wages and he has hardly kicked a ball..that''s up to the manager though, isn''t it?[;)][/quote]

That was one of the key areas that Lerner wanted Lambert to fix apparently, which is why we''ve seen so many younger players this season as Lambert desperately tries to help offload the big earners whilst still developing a squad that can compete...

I actually think that our wage bill isn''t fully representative of some of the quality we have, but this is mainly due to the fast track progression through the leagues, give it another year or two and I expect we''ll be much closer to WBA''s bill (or higher) - assuming we bring in the players that are needed to develop the squad going forwards.

[/quote]

 

Whether that is true or not is open to question and not playing players doesn''t equate to not paying them.

 

 

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[quote user="Warren Hill"][quote user="Indy_Bones"]That was one of the key areas that Lerner wanted Lambert to fix apparently, which is why we''ve seen so many younger players this season as Lambert desperately tries to help offload the big earners whilst still developing a squad that can compete...[/quote]Whether that is true or not is open to question and not playing players doesn''t equate to not paying them.[/quote]Of course it doesn''t equate to not paying them, but it makes it very clear that they are surplus to requirements and more likely than another club will make an approach knowing this is the case (and potentially hoping to get a deal on the transfer fee in the process).

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Of course they could just sit there and "Bogarde"...

 

Are another team more likely to buy a player on big wages that has sat twiddling his thumbs for a year or one that has been playing?

 

 

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[quote user="Warren Hill"]Are another team more likely to buy a player on big wages that has sat twiddling his thumbs for a year or one that has been playing?[/quote]That really does depend on the situation.Bent for example hasn''t become a bad player overnight, and not being selected isn''t really his fault (assuming he''s working to a fair level in training).What it does show potential buyers, is not only do Villa not see him in their plans going forwards, but without the playing time this season, he''s in less of a position to demand a big contract which could also make it a more attractive option for a club.

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Maybe more attractive for a club in the Championship. If he isn''t in Villa''s plans moving forward, a team that have been bottom six all season, it isn''t exactly selling his quality to anyone above them is it?

Championship clubs won''t pay his salary, so either a club take a massive gamble on a rusty Bent or alternatively he can just sit there and earn his pennies for sod all.

Badly handled, I think. They won''t realise his transfer value because he hasn''t played, someone might get a bargain I suppose but this guy has a decent scoring record and Lambert has destroyed him. All those moaning about Hughton and Holt eh?

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Warren, you''ve committed the ultimate crime - you''ve attacked "his lordship"!!!

On top of that, you didn''t denigrate CH!!!

 

Oh the shame of it - you''ll have to change your name!

You''ll get hounded out of this forum by the HOB''s (Hughton Out Brigade)!

Quick, repent and get your tin hat on, before the obvious suspects find out [8-|]

 

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In my opinion Hugnton was the best steady, experienced option last summer and he still is!

 

Its laughable people think Martinez is so wonderful when year after year Wigan only cling onto top flight status by their finger tips when their budget would be substantial and far greater than ours which would probably be in the bottom 3!

 

Yes we''ve been too negative especially the Newcastle and Fulham home games that we should have won which would see us safe now, but a lot of this cause Hughton doesn''t rate our attack and quite rightly too. In recent games we have plenty of attacks but haven''t had the quality to produce the end product of goals or even make decent chances. The only difference between us andVilla were their front line, swap 3 of our forward players with theirs and we''d of beaten them comfortably cause we were better than them in defence and midfield!

 

People forget what League we''re in. This season was always going to be tough, the momentum had already gone before the end of last and Lambert knew this. I honestly think its likely we''d of been worse of had he stayed anyway!

 

Look at our squad, how many of them would other premiership teams want?

 

Bassong and Ruddy for definate then maybe Turner and Pilkington are the only ones in iur sqaud who other prem teams would want!

 

You can''t make a silk purse out of a sows ear I think the saying goes!

 

If we stay up then it''ll be job done as far as I''m concerned although with a big cautionary MUST IMPROVE tagged onto it!

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[quote user="kingsway"]

Its laughable people think Martinez is so wonderful when year after year Wigan only cling onto top flight status by their finger tips when their budget would be substantial and far greater than ours which would probably be in the bottom 3!

[/quote]

 In his defence he has to sell 1 or 2 of his best players every year. I have read ...somewhere... a case made that by the time he gets his side intergated/adjusted to loss of last years best and has new talent bedded it''s post-Christmas and the Wigan resurgence starts. It''s an idea with some merit I suppose.

[quote user="kingsway"]

Look at our squad, how many of them would other premiership teams want?

[/quote]

Which may work in our favour - in the sense that for the first time (ever?) we don''t have to sell anyone even if offers come in. We can build with what we have without having to repair first.

[quote user="kingsway"]

If we stay up then it''ll be job done as far as I''m concerned although with a big cautionary MUST IMPROVE tagged onto it!

[/quote]Agreed

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