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BroadstairsR

So if Hughton's such a disaster

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what about the managers (ex or otherwise) of Stoke, Fulham, Villa, Southampton, Sunderland and Newcastle all on the same amount or within just 3pts. of us.

 

To say nothing of Wigan, Reading and QPR.

 

That''s half the league.

 

Although we could have done without the awful bore-fest, one way or another it seems likely that Chris Hughton will have done his job for us this time around.

 

On the assumption that we will scrape to safety then the Hoots deserves a relaxing Summer on Cromer Sands contemplating his use of his Wolfswinkel amongst other things, whilst Delia counts the money in her counting house and McNally deals with all the ins and outs that must be inevitable in his usual inimitable style. The latter hoping that he doesn''t have to fend off demands for his manager like last time around.

 

Me? I will have a tinnie or two whilst watching the Ashes.

  

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I would also like to add, the main critism of hughton seems to be the fact he plays defensive football....is this the case...or does he not have faith in our forwards, all of which I believe are no higher than championship quality?? Trying to sign strikers in jan indicated he needed more quality, and besides...

Put agbonglahor benteke wiemann bent into our squad I''d expect us to be above the ''flying'' Paul lambert 2 points above us

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Vaughan''s Stiff Upper Lip

"I would also like to add, the main critism of hughton seems to be the fact he plays defensive football....is this the case...or does he not have faith in our forwards, all of which I believe are no higher than championship quality?? Trying to sign strikers in jan indicated he needed more quality, and besides... Put agbonglahor benteke wiemann bent into our squad I''d expect us to be above the ''flying'' Paul lambert 2 points above us."

 

Precisely and whilst I am far from happy with a lot of the fayre provided this season (although as a stream-watcher only I have little right to over-grumble,) I do feel that some of the criticism of the man on here has been extremely OTT and even to the point of nasty. Long lists of possible replacements ranging from  the unrealistic to the daft have been commonplace.

 

He has been here just one year. He arrived into a very, very difficult situation. He arguably had the hardest job of all Premiership managers this season. He inherited more than his fair share of tryers that many on here doubted that even Lambert would have succeeded with this season. He immediately addressed the weakness ie. defence, and did he.

 

Give the man some slack. He deserves another season to prove his true worth. Repeat much of the same next season with the benefit of time and money signings and it''s ''on yer bike Chris.''    

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The problem is obviously the fact that Norwich have been fairly awful for half of the season - if the results had been more evenly spread across the 38 games I doubt there would be so much talk of sacking him.

 

However, a manager must always be judged on what is happening presently and what is being done to change things.

 

I''m still very much undecided on whether I would like to see Hughton stay or go this summer - I have said the removal of managers with better records is a good idea as they don''t seem to have much idea of taking a club forward (Nigel Adkins especially). I wouldn''t want to be in McNally''s shoes right now - do you give Hughton a summer and a what will be Norwich''s largest ever transfer budget to work with, or do you remove him on the basis of the second half of the season and go through another re-building process of a new manager wanting to bring in his own players.

 

The Van Wolfswinkle and Garrido transfers have already been agreed (although Garrido can pull out if he wants) so whoever comes in will already have two ''new'' players he didn''t sign - impossible to know how many other deals might have been sorted out in the background (I doubt the RVW deal was the only one going on). Any new manager will have the same problem Hughton had, another man''s squad suited to another man''s playing style. Without a vision like Swansea or a good Director of Football like WBA managerial changes have a massive knock on effect.

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Vaughan''s Stiff Upper Lip Said: I would also like to add, the main critism of hughton seems to be the fact he plays defensive football....is this the case...

Yes, it is the case, Bassong confirmed as much in an interview last week. He is a good defensive manager who plays a defensive game.

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I can see us being a better version of Villa next season if we stay up.

Strong defensively with counter attacking football coming from RVW, Redmond (or another quick winger), Snodgrass and one other player of real quality in attacking mid or up front. Either a Lukaku type or a Gaston Ramirez type depending on the game.

We''d then get a better quality centre mid such as McArthy or McArthur from Wigan or similar and This would allow Tettey/ Johnson to stick to defending while the new lad provided the fulcrum for attacks.

My dream players for the new roles would be Ronaldo out wide, Messi or RVP up front and Alonso or Carrick (yes Carrick) in the middle so them type players adjusted to our level would suit.

We just need to stay up and then Hughton can be judged on next season. Keep the faith

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Top post...puts things into perspective. As I have said many times we should stick with Hughton...I think we will see a different approach next year.

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Didn''t I read somewhere as well that we have been operating on the 2nd worst transfer budget and 2nd worse wage budget in the league?

So staying up against those odds is an achievement no matter how you look at it.

 

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We must give C.H. chance for next season with some big money players he will not have excuse if do same ugly football next year.If all keep same shit we really sack him around 10th round but I believe he need this chance because we all know second seasons build be big task with this group of players

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We lose to WBA with negative boring football again then lets see if the OP is quite so cocky regarding MR H.

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[quote user="ellis206"]

Didn''t I read somewhere as well that we have been operating on the 2nd worst transfer budget and 2nd worse wage budget in the league?

So staying up against those odds is an achievement no matter how you look at it.

[/quote]

You did, but those figures were for last season, and yes, it was a fantastic achievement.

We''ll have to wait and see when this season''s financials are released to see how we stacked up. My guess is that we will be 3rd or 4th lowest combined transfer/wage for this season.

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[quote user="dpj canary"]We lose to WBA with negative boring football again then lets see if the OP is quite so cocky regarding MR H.[/quote]

 

Well didn''t you just totally miss the point?

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To be honest, I think it''s more a case of us simply not being good enough in the final third currently, and Hughton trying to play to strength and grind out results. It''s ugly, but with two games remaining we are still outside the dropzone (just!). Judge him next season when he''s had a chance to improve the squad. If he''s still playing this style with quality in the final third, it''s time for him to move on.

The decider for me has been the fact that he HAS improved the squad in certain areas. Particularly at the back where Bassong / Turner / Bunn and Tettey have all impressed.

I think his panic signings in Kamara and Kane, and his clear blanking of Beccio, Jackson, Vaughan and Martin prove his lack of faith in the front line as it is.

I think we can easily beat WBA provided Holt stays in the middle and doesn''t keep drifting off into wide areas, and provided the wingers deliver quality into the box at every opportunity.

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I think it has been a case of horses for courses this year for Hughton, the issue is though he has been sent to ascot with a donkey.With him coming in this season it isn''t inconceiveable to think that his brief was survival and survival only. This would explain the siege mentality taken in games this season. The issue is however, that the players he inherited are not "suitable" or competant at playing that type of game. You saw last season with lambert that the team played expansive attacking football in the diamond. This does however have its issues as we know especially given that the teams in the league know a lot more about our team than they did last year. And I think you would see that given the choice Hughton will look to imporve the squad further to try and alter the football style. I do agree that the siege mentality hasn''t worked but I believe it is because of the players he has at his dipsosal, they aren''t capable of sitting back and countering. I think and hope that surviving this season will bring out the best in hughton and a full transformation into his squad and his football. I have watched hughton''s teams and even observed his coaching sessions and it is clear that I don''t think he is enjoying this style of football but it is a fear of failure that is stopping him go for the win.

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[quote user="Norwich or die tryin"]Wigan loose one game and people are backing this muppet up again![/quote]

 

It makes you weep doesn''t it?

 

IF we stay up it''ll be despite him not because of him, the same crew who backed Worthy until the bitter end are doing the same with Hughton.

 

They make me vomit!

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The telling argument for me is the other teams around us in the table. Newcastle, for example - Pardew was manager of the season last year and now he''s one place above relegation. Has he suddenly become a bad manager? He has the same players except Ba, and has brought in other good players. Why are they not performing? PL took over good players and brought in good players as well, including Benteke - but why are they struggling. Di Canio was the saviour until it all came apart so horrifically for Sunderland at Villa. The answer is that this is a tough, tough league where the game is played at a ferocious and unforgiving pace. One mistake and you''ve had it. Changing the manager won''t change that. Building a better quality, balanced squad will.

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Aye; the grass is always greener on the other side, isn''t it? Some on here are guilty of believing that surely anybody else would have done better. Except there is absolutely no guarantee that would have been the case.

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[quote user="Yelloow Since 72"]The answer is that this is a tough, tough league where the game is played at a ferocious and unforgiving pace. One mistake and you''ve had it. Changing the manager won''t change that. Building a better quality, balanced squad will.[/quote]But there''s very little wrong with the squad as a whole. Yes, we need a couple more signings to bolster the midfield, and RVW upfront will also be a big boost, but this is the same team as we had last season that played some damn good football and weren''t scared of ANYONE, but with better players added and the attacking play and self-belief drained from it.I love how in some fans eyes, we went from having a team of good players who showed they could make the step up (in most cases), that played good football under a strong mananger, to suddenly being a pile of crap who were always going to be lucky not to finish bottom...

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]Vaughan''s Stiff Upper Lip Said: I would also like to add, the main critism of hughton seems to be the fact he plays defensive football....is this the case... Yes, it is the case, Bassong confirmed as much in an interview last week. He is a good defensive manager who plays a defensive game.[/quote]

 

See! You should stick around Foggy! Your posts always make me look at things from another angle. I haven''t seen this interview with Bassong but if it hasn''t been taken out of context then it really does put the ball firmly in McNally and Bowkett''s court. Because they surely know of all grumblings and rumblings within the group and will be in a position to deal with it after the Man City game. Will be interesting to see what''s done.

 

As for the tired old argument from others about Worthy... well that worked out well! Not just because of who we replaced him with but also the subsequent careers of the managers most people on here wanted. Successful managers really don''t rock up that often. The 3 years like Lambert just had probably occur once in a lifetime.

 

 

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Yelloow Since 72"]The answer is that this is a tough, tough league where the game is played at a ferocious and unforgiving pace. One mistake and you''ve had it. Changing the manager won''t change that. Building a better quality, balanced squad will.[/quote]
But there''s very little wrong with the squad as a whole.

Yes, we need a couple more signings to bolster the midfield, and RVW upfront will also be a big boost, but this is the same team as we had last season that played some damn good football and weren''t scared of ANYONE, but with better players added and the attacking play and self-belief drained from it.

I love how in some fans eyes, we went from having a team of good players who showed they could make the step up (in most cases), that played good football under a strong mananger, to suddenly being a pile of crap who were always going to be lucky not to finish bottom...
[/quote]

 

''kin hell Indy!! How much worse can you paint it. After 38 games you pretty much finish where you deserve to be.

 

 

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Well said Indy

The arrogance of some who are convinced we would have been relegated under Lambert and yet Hughton is the messiah is, frankly, quite astonishing.

Having said that, surely we wont mess it up now. My old heart couldn''t suffer the disappointment

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If I''m helping make dpj vomit then I''m glad.  Put that vile bile down the toilet where it belongs and spare us on here.  For the record, I wanted Worthy out when we were relegated and I want to keep Hughton so it''s not the same crowd.

 

Picking up Indy''s point, just go back to last August.  as I''ve said before, the pundits and many on here were convinced City would fall to second season syndrome.  If we were so earth shattering last season why was that?  I believe we played creditably well last season and that we played without fear and at times, out of our skins.  But, it was an adrenalin, confidence infused over performance.  We had good players who played well against better player''; we did not have great players.  We did what Reading did a few times this season only we did it better and for longer.  Also, Lambert was a big part of that.  He has charisma and is inspirational in the dressing room.  It was doubtful whether he could perform again this season and I believe that is why he left.  Because he couldn''t.  There are diminishing returns in inspiring players to overperform; you can''t do it forever.  That''s one reason the fear of second season syndrome was so prevalent.   How do you get up and do it again?

So Hughton took over a squad of good players and had to find a new ways for good players to beat better players.  That has not gone as well as any of us would like.  But, the longer term plan is clearly to buy better palyers to beat the other better palyers and that process is still in its early stages.

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yes the squad has been improved and we still have the same players as last year but other teams have adapted too. even with our signings we have had to play a certain we to make sure we stayed in the league, would you prefer to play attractive and go down missing out on the new TV money next year that will surely improve the teams squad or would you take the ugly approach for a season just to ensure you are in league just in time for the new rights, personally i would take the latter of the two. the strike hasnt really been improve we all know that. but i think come next season the team will improved significantly and we will be a much harder opponent to face. hughton needs time any manager needs time but do they get it no. shouldnt we really be supporting the manager instead of having a go at his tactics, he was set his target and if he meets his target job done.

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[quote user="Orford65"]Bet Manure are glad they did''nt dump Fergie when his team was struggling after he took over![/quote]Actually, the team was struggling BEFORE Fergie took over, having lost 6, drawn 4 and won only 3 of their first 13 games whilst Atkinson was in charge.Fergie lost his first match just two days after joining them, but then only lost 7 more until the end of the season, with a further 10 draws and 11 wins.So in season 1, Fergie won 11, drew 10 and lost 8, having come in on the back of an awful run under Atkinson.Hardly ''struggling'' was he...What''s more is that he didn''t play 10 men in defence and sacrifice attacking play in the process either...

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[quote user="Orford65"]Bet Manure are glad they did''nt dump Fergie when his team was struggling after he took over!
[/quote]

 

 

Ye Gods! are you seriously comparing the two?

 

Nurse!

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Hughton has done well, considering the squad he had, and with little cash to add. He was also a little handicapped by the lateness of his arrival and then the need to settle the Holt stand-off.

 

I think that he inherited a squad of good but not outstanding players, and also players who are a little inconsistent in performance. If we are relegated, then I would not expect much in the way of offers for any of our team. Perhaps Ruddy, Bassong, Turner might attract Premiership interest, but I suspect that most of the others would be seen as good championship players, given that Holt and Wes are getting towards the ends of their careers.

 

Unlike most Premiership teams, our lacks a really standout player or two whose individual brilliance can change the course of a game.

 

In general, Hughton and before him Lambert took on sides with more skill at Premiership level. Lambert had an advantage in that most of our team were unknown, while Hughton has a team which has been longer analysed.

 

In the circumstances I think that Hughton has done well to achieve what he has, and we were carried away in dreaming that we could compete with the big boys and others who had assembled good squads over several years at this level.

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Cambridge wrote about Lambert " he had charisma and was inspirational in the dressing room"

Yes that is how you get the best out of players, a group of the same players have performed significantly worse this season than last, many factors can affect that, but the performances of the players across the park has lacked inspiration and confidence.

For a team like us who are going to be struggling to fund a squad full of top class players, the ability of our manager to motivate is absolutely crucial. We have to get average to good players playing their best football, a manager that demonstrably is unable to do that is not old enough for us.

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