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EXCLUSIVE: Swansea boss Laudrup poised to sign £4m Johnson from Norwich

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I think Mr Laudrup has other things on his mind at the moment.

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[quote user="ellis206"]I find it strange you trying to compare pass rates between one player who has played 35 games and one player who has played 21 games.... they are inaccurate results, you need to find out how many attempted passes made [/quote]I find it strange that you don''t understand percentages and why these are absolutely NOT inaccurate results.Whilst in a very small sample, data CAN be deceptive, statistics from over 20 games are absolutely NOT ambiguous and are highly representative of how often each player completes their passes successfully (note I make no distuinghisment between the distance of the pass, it''s intended targets or how useful it was to our overall balance of play there).In an average game with an average amount of passes made by each player, Tettey WILL have more passes successfully reach their target on average than Johnson will, as is perfectly shown by the data.Just because you don''t agree with it, doesn''t make it incorrect or inaccurate...

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mendhams_rusty_shank

reckon 5 million would be a fair price

i also think this shows hughtons a fkn clueless idiot whos probably going to break up the squad and fill it with brick 5h1thouse 6 foot 4 africans with limited technique but can run around a lot

1 gk 9 alex tetteys and 1 dutch man up front :/

where the F*k did you get him replacing the entire squad with Africans? what the hell is your problem.

the ignorance of this bored is outstanding. please p*s off to your whitebred backwards cave.

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="chicken"]And Agbonlahor scored from our right side, not our left.

Johnson does play his role, very, very, very well. He is worth more than £4million. And would not be so easy to replace.

If he was such a poor player why have England scouts been keeping an eye on him as a possible long term replacement to Gareth Barry who is guess what? Great at tracking, tackling and strong but is no great passer.[/quote]Both of Agbonlahor''s goals came down our left.[/quote]

First one yes, although watching it again Abonlahor skips past several players, the last of which is Howson, without any challenges.

The 2nd is most definitely not from the left. Its a ball from Delph from a central position, through and up to Abonlahor who is being marked by Bassong in a central position. Abonlahor runs slightly wide of Bassong as to get past him and then shoots. Delph''s position is roughly right CM when he plays the ball.

No leftyness about it other than Abonlahor''s five-ten yard dash/movement at the end to go past Bassong.

But yeah, by all means, Johnson is rubbish and responsible for x% of all our goals this season so we should ship him out whilst we have got the best possible offer we could want.

Seriously, I am so happy that some people on here are not our clubs manager . . . . .

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but what is your reasoning for it? because the majority of his signings have been from africa?

Butterfield? nope

Whittaker? nope

snodgrass? nope.

Bassong? French citizen but plays for cameroon through heritage - so he is european.

Tettey? nope

Kamara - yes. (although could be argued as he is a US citizen.)

Turner? nope

Garrido? nope

Kane? nope

Becchio? nope.

Bunn? nope

Camp? nope

so, 2 of his signings play for an African nation. hardly a majority at all, is it.

so again? what is your reasoning?

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="ellis206"]I find it strange you trying to compare pass rates between one player who has played 35 games and one player who has played 21 games.... they are inaccurate results, you need to find out how many attempted passes made [/quote]I find it strange that you don''t understand percentages and why these are absolutely NOT inaccurate results.Whilst in a very small sample, data CAN be deceptive, statistics from over 20 games are absolutely NOT ambiguous and are highly representative of how often each player completes their passes successfully (note I make no distuinghisment between the distance of the pass, it''s intended targets or how useful it was to our overall balance of play there).In an average game with an average amount of passes made by each player, Tettey WILL have more passes successfully reach their target on average than Johnson will, as is perfectly shown by the data.Just because you don''t agree with it, doesn''t make it incorrect or inaccurate...[/quote]

Sorry Indy, normally I agree with you more often than not, but this one is a no goer.

Pass completions have very little to do with individual players.

For a pass to be completed a player has to play the ball and another has to control and retain possession of it.

Therefore the best way of comparing player for player is when they are in exactly the same scenario, which in football never happens.

You''d need exactly the same players in a game against a similar or the same opposition.

For example, if you are playing in a game with say, Jackson up front rather than Hoolahan, your pass completion rate is likely to be lower to Jackson than it is to Hoolahan due to the latter''s better movement and anticipation as well as control.

In the same way you''d expect pass completion rates and as a result possession, to be better against teams lower in the table Vs teams at the top of the table.

That''s before you even bring tactics to the table. Teams like Stoke tend to press and harry quite a bit more than others, thus putting players under more pressure.

I really struggle when people try to base an argument on an abstract, narrow set of statistics.

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[quote user="chicken"]

First one yes, although watching it again Abonlahor skips past several players, the last of which is Howson, without any challenges.

The 2nd is most definitely not from the left. Its a ball from Delph from a central position, through and up to Abonlahor who is being marked by Bassong in a central position. [/quote]You described them as right....  They both came down the left half of the pitch.  If we are including centre then yes, both were quite central.  Left Central. [8-|]

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He''s not.

Like many of us he is a passionate Norwich fan.

And like many of us is probably considering wearing nappies on Sunday to save him on his laundry bill.

And like most of us is looking at this team and manager and trying to make sense of where and why it isn''t quite happening for them.

There is nothing wrong in that. That is part of following any football team.

I am merely trying to point out that an opinion is fine. Statistics can be used to support an opinion, but some are incredibly misleading. And that should we stay up, it will be a lot more difficult to replace Johnson than people think, and he is a much better player.

For me, the biggest flaw is people stating that his passing isn''t good enough, whilst pretty much every other aspect of his game is good enough. It''s a bit like stating that Ruddy is rubbish at shooting - it''s not his role.

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Normally the Anchor Men have enormous pass success. Because their job is simple, break up play, and pass to someone else usually a creative player not that far away. Some of the best sides have an anchor man and a deep lying play maker next to him.

Gattuso/Pirlo or Mascherano/Alonso spring to mind. It wouldn''t be surprising if Gattuso/Mascherano passing has a higher percentage completion as it''s just 5 yards to their mate.

Who then tries to crack the defense and through balls might be only successful 20% of the time, but when his are successful it normally ends with a clear cut chance.

So whilst a passing stat is clearly correct in terms of % completion, it doesn''t tell the story of what an individual players job is and what passes they''re attempting.

Nevertheless, I feel that Tettey and Johnson isn''t a good enough partnership as a 4231.

Either Tettey and a playmaker or johnson and a playmaker. Don''t forget some playmakers are also fantastic tacklers i.e both Alonso and Pirlo can tackle.

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="chicken"]

First one yes, although watching it again Abonlahor skips past several players, the last of which is Howson, without any challenges.

The 2nd is most definitely not from the left. Its a ball from Delph from a central position, through and up to Abonlahor who is being marked by Bassong in a central position. [/quote]You described them as right....  They both came down the left half of the pitch.  If we are including centre then yes, both were quite central.  Left Central. [8-|][/quote]

Lol - the 2nd defenitely isn''t. Have a look at the highlights. Either way we''re deflecting and we have to be careful, if Laudrup sees this thread he''ll think he''s offered too much - or perhaps thats what people are trying to do to make it easier for the club to reject the bid and I am the only one that hasn''t been told of the plan?

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[quote user="chicken"]n the same way you''d expect pass completion rates and as a result

possession, to be better against teams lower in the table Vs teams at

the top of the table. 

I really struggle when people try to base an argument on an abstract, narrow set of statistics.[/quote]I understand where you are coming from, but Johnson has the worst passing accuracy for any Central Midfieder who has played 18+ Premiership games.  In the end you don''t need much from BJ.  Just to shift the ball to a central midfielder who has a decent range and accuracy of passing, but we don''t play any central midfielders who specialise in passing.Interesting that WhoScored has both BJ and Howson down as having a weakness in their passing.http://www.whoscored.com/Players/12490/Show/Bradley-Johnsonhttp://www.whoscored.com/Players/23273/Show/Jonathan-Howson

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[quote user="chicken"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="chicken"]

First one yes, although watching it again Abonlahor skips past several players, the last of which is Howson, without any challenges.

The 2nd is most definitely not from the left. Its a ball from Delph from a central position, through and up to Abonlahor who is being marked by Bassong in a central position. [/quote]You described them as right....  They both came down the left half of the pitch.  If we are including centre then yes, both were quite central.  Left Central. [8-|][/quote]

Lol - the 2nd defenitely isn''t. Have a look at the highlights. Either way we''re deflecting and we have to be careful, if Laudrup sees this thread he''ll think he''s offered too much - or perhaps thats what people are trying to do to make it easier for the club to reject the bid and I am the only one that hasn''t been told of the plan?[/quote]Ball played forward into Gabby''s pass from the left of the center circle (from an NCFC perspective).  Anyway, whatever, who cares!http://www.goal-247.com/FootballVideos/View/525/Norwich-1-2-Aston-Villa-GOAL-Gabriel-Agbonlahor-89-/4

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Yup.

I guess what I was trying to point out is that if those around you are hardly any better at passing is it the individual or the team?

One of the things I always expect a half decent team to do once a season is to score three goals and tonk a side. We haven''t managed that all season and have never really looked like it.

For me, mainly because going forward we often appear very disjointed, we just haven''t quite clicked.

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[quote user="CanaryNewbee"]Heres the link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2321999/Michael-Laudrup-wants-Bradley-Johnson-Swansea-4m.html[/quote]If this is sentiment of Hughton''s managerial talent then this guy really is the Messiah...how the hell did he manage to get a club like Swansea to part with over 4 million for this donkey? All that remains to be seen is how much he can flog Holt for! At this rate we will definitely have a decent transfer war chest for capturing talent in the summer!  No wonder the Rip Van Winkle decided to sign...onwards and upwards!

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We''d be mad to sell any of our younger first team regulars for anything like 4m.

Plus he only signed a new deal in Feb to keep him here until 2016, he cost a lot more than that.

They''re probably after Oli Johnson.

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

We are not in discussions with any club about the sale/potential sale of any first team player. Ok?

[/quote]

Ooooh! Any ''first team'' player.

That means some of the ''squad'' are already being moved on, other than those out of contract too, we wouldn''t need to talk to anyone about those either.

Interesting.

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Firstly the rumor is absolute tosh, Johnson doesn''t fit Swansea''s style at all, and no way would we be selling before the final two games of the season.

However if it was true, I''d be happy. Johnson whilst being one of our better players this season, and being decent defensively, really struggles going forward.

We all say the service is not good enough, and that stems from midfield. If we''re to progress, we need better overall players in our starting XI than Johnson

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I agree with Indy and NWC, if we are to progress the defensive blocker with no forward ability or passing has to be a thing of the past. We do need a "disruptor" in there but one with pace, anticipation and some passing vision. They are not ten a penny but a critical part of making a team tick. BJ has his uses, but typifies our limitations sadly.

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Sorry Chicken, but I simply don''t agree on this one.Whether you''re trying 60 yard cross field balls, 5 yard passes in midfield or 20 through balls, pass completion rate is based on whether or not each pass was successful, irrespective of who you tried to play it to or whether or not they did jack with it afterwards.Especially when you compare players who are being asked to perform very similar roles (both Tettey and Johnson are used as midfield enforcers who then look to move the ball onto a more attacking player), then with a reasonable size sample, it''s a perfectly fair and reasonable yardstick to measure by.This season Johnson has averaged 45 passes per game - the highest amount in our team overall, but has only completed 71.5% of them, which over the 35 games he''s played, is an approximate 1575 passes, of which 449 have gone astray.Tettey on the other hand averages 42 passes per game - the 2nd highest in the team, but completes 83% of them - the second best behind Wes, which over the 21(4) apps he''s made is approx 1050 passes, of which just 179 have gone astray.If Tettey had played the same amount of games as Johnson (bearing in mind that there''s 4 sub apps in Tettey''s totals), then he''ve have made approx 1470 passes, of which only 250 would have gone astray - almost HALF of what Johnson has misplaced on average.Whilst you can never do a perfect comparison, this is more than enough to illustrate that Tettey gives the ball away far less than Johnson does.However, to add more meat onto the bones, we can also see that Johnson averages 4.3 accurate long balls per game in contrast to Tettey''s 2.2, which then shows us that Johnson more than likely attempts more long balls (based on his average pass accuracy in order to get that higher number) than Tettey does. So it could be argued that if Johnson restricted himself to making shorter passes rather than trying the longer balls, his accuracy could well improve to some degree, although it''s highly unlikely to reach Tettey''s overall accuracy.As a comparison I checked out Swansea''s stats in regards to this area, and their worst passer (in terms over successful pass completion %) is Michu on 78% (I don''t include the keepers in this as that''s already a given), but their own ''defensive'' midfielders in players like Britton (91%), and Ki  Sung-Yeung (92%) are MUCH more accurate than ANYONE we''ve got. Also interesting is that aside from Michu, only 1 other outfield player has a pass success rate below 80% (Agustien who''s an DM sub most of the time anyway), whereas in our own squad only FIVE of our side meet that 80% mark (Wes, Tettey, Cinnamon, Pilks and Howson).To even further put this into perspective, aside from Victor Valdes (again, keepers expected), every single player in the Barca squad averages 80% or over in this area, with an astonishing 15 players averaging over 90% accuracy! And even Valdes himself manages 63%, which is a far cry from Ruddy''s 33% and Bunn''s 34% levels...What I would also point out is that despite Jackson having an 82% pass success rate, he only averages 0.1 key passes per game, so in other words - he passes the ball pretty well, but not in any way that is particularly useful to us from an attacking perspective (for those that claim his link up play is pretty good...)The honest truth is that you can prove everything and nothing with stats depending on how you interpret them (especially if you''re creative), but in this instance I feel it backs up what I''ve seen on the pitch. The stats are taken from across a season where the players have faced sides from Stoke to Man City, Reading to Chelsea, and it clearly shows that Tettey is more conservative with his passing range than Johnson is, but at least they reach their target most of the time, whereas Johnson is clearly a weaker link in this area and should arguably focus more on making more accurate shorter passes than going for long balls which don''t pay off often enough in relative terms.We can also see from the stats that Tettey harries better than Johnson does, isn''t dribbled past anywhere near as often and commits half as many fouls in the process to boot. In fact the only area that Johnson really beats Tettey in most of the time is in aerial battles, which is odd considering Tettey''s height advantage and natural strength.So taking all those factors into account along with my own opinion from watching them play over the last season (2 in Johnson''s case), I feel confident in my assertion that Tettey is the better overall player out of the two, but am more than willing to accept that this is simply my opinion - regardless of however many stats I can use to back it up...

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Have you watched a game where they both play?

The reason Johnson plays more long balls is because he believes he can pass it further. Moves often break down with Tettey because he appears to prefer shorter passing.

Like I say a completed pass requires two players - fact. It can be a good pass but if the player it is too doesn''t come to meet it it doesn''t complete.

Like I said before, it also depends on who you play against.

Your statistics are averages and as such don''t display things likewhethe most of Johnson''s failed passes came in harder games where Tettey may have been absent.

It is just trying to simplify things too much. And does not work. You can disagree with me all you like but as I have said before statistics like these are very misleading and essentially inaccurate.

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Interesting moment for such news. While I''m no big friend of conspiracy theories, if it has any legs, maybe the  whole deal was Sawnsea to beat Wigan plus 4m for Bradley?

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[quote user="chicken"]Have you watched a game where they both play?

The reason Johnson plays more long balls is because he believes he can pass it further. Moves often break down with Tettey because he appears to prefer shorter passing.[/quote]So moves break down because Tettey passes a shorter distance and more accurately than Johnson does......okay, moving swiftly on....[quote]Like I say a completed pass requires two players - fact. It can be a good pass but if the player it is too doesn''t come to meet it it doesn''t complete.[/quote]Ah, so now you''re saying that Johnson is just as good as Tettey in the pass accuracy stakes, but in fact it''s the rest of the teams'' fault that less passes from him are completed, because they can''t be bothered to come receive them.....okay, moving swiftly on.... [quote]Like I said before, it also depends on who you play against.

Your statistics are averages and as such don''t display things like whether most of Johnson''s failed passes came in harder games where Tettey may have been absent.[/quote]Right, so just because we''re up against Man Utd rather than Newcastle, that suddenly means that players have to lose all accuracy in their passing does it? A team which presses and harries us more can certainly force players into a mistake, but it doesn''t just impact a single player, it affects the whole team and therefore their average across the season. To add to this Tettey has played against Chelsea (x2), Man Utd, Liverpool (x2), Arsenal (x2), Spurs, Man City, Everton and Stoke (x2) - so tell me again how Johnson''s passing failed in games against better opposition where Tettey was absent...[quote]It is just trying to simplify things too much. And does not work. You can disagree with me all you like but as I have said before statistics like these are very misleading and essentially inaccurate.[/quote]It looks simple because it actually is, and the stats are absolutely NOT misleading or inaccurate and show what has happened across the season.If I really wanted to, I could bring up individual stats from every single game to illustrate the point even further such as how in the recent 3:1 defeat to Arsenal, Tettey managed a 77% pass completion rate compared to Johnson''s 70%, that he made more clearances (and effective clearances), committed 1 less foul, made 4 successful direct tackles to Johnson''s 0 and in fact the only thing Johnson did better on, was he made 3 turnovers to Tettey''s 0, had 1 more accurate long ball, and made 1 cross more than Tettey did.I could go on, but by now you''ll either concede the point, or will simply dig your heels in and refuse to accept it regardless of what evidence I provide to back up my assertion...

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Pass completion and pass accuracy are two completely different stats, which one are you on about now?

Originally it was pass completion. Its also nice that rather than disprove what I am saying you are just dismissing it.

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