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Hughton opinions now?

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[quote user="E.L.F."]" He took over a squad finishing 12th in the premier league. The league table does not lie. "

And HE has the team sitting 12th in the table in the present. You''re right, the league table does not lie.

IHWT[/quote]

So will we still be 12th after the Man City game ?  If we attack with quality as I know we can I think so, maybe higher, but play for the usual draw and we will be tonked IMO and finish a few places lower.  Let''s stop showing teams respect and go out to beat them !!!  Winning breeds confidence and will also set us up for a good start next season. Hughton has overmanaged the squad IMO and that has to change.

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[quote user="Dusk1983"]We''re only a point off last year''s "heroic" season under Lambert with a game to go. QPR and Reading aside, there''s been much less to separate the bottom 6 or 7 teams this year.

Hughton has bought well so far so I''ve confidence in him this Summer. With RVW already wrapped up (impressive in its own right) I hope we''ll sign some players - a central passer/creator somewhere between Fox and Hoolahan, and a winger or two with pace - to deliberately get the best out of him.

That all said, if we''re 6-10 games into next season with Tettey and Johnson both still deployed deep, Hoolahan/a new CM not starting regularly, and RVW isolated up front on his own, it''s time we move on to a more adventurous manager.

Pochettino''s early success seems to have faded but I understand Southampton''s rationale. Get a homegrown manager to build a solid foundation, then turn to the continent to add a more technical attacking approach. There''s no doubt he''ll be signing players Adkins wouldn''t have a hope of finding, and you''ll likely see some unknown Spanish talents next year and Saints will be an extremely strong, continental-style attacking outfit. I wouldn''t mind a future like that for NCFC.
[/quote]

All you''ve done is change the name of the Club. All we heard about a year ago was how fantastic QPR were going to be with all their foreign imports.

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Hughton should have played the same with more freedom earlier in the season, we could have been safer a lot earlier! However, Mr CH has accomplished our target, and we could even improve our last season finish with a result next week! KTF lol

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[quote user="Ginja"]Let be realistic, we''ve been given a get out of jail free card this last week and I thank Swansea, Chelsea and West Brom for gifting us our survival. Though well done to everyone for doing the business yesterday, we have to recognise that after our defeat to Villa, results couldn''t have been more perfect for us. I will reserve my judgement of Hughton until next season now, it''s still hard to say whether he will be a success or not.[/quote]

Ridiculous and idiotic statement which shows a total lack of knowledge of the game. Every team plays 38 games. Every team plays every other team twice. You get the points that you earn. No-one gives them to you. If team A beats team B or team C loses to team D, it is irrelevant. The only thing you can influence is your own results. Every team is capable of beating or taking points off every other team. It happens all the time and you finish the season where you deserve to finish. We have been gifted nothing and you must be on something if you think we have.

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[quote user="grefstad"]While I appreciate Hughtons efforts in keeping us up, I am not a fan of his approach to games, his negative/dour tactics, his constant overlooking of parts of the squad, his rigid system and seemingly "over-coaching" of players, his failure to turn a game by the use of substitutions (or at least trying to), his constant bigging up of the opposition and his constant reference to Norwich as "a club of our stature", meaning his is making us smaller than we are.

Nor am I a fan of his seemingly calculated approach of getting help from other teams to ease the burden on his team, as this is a dangerous approach.

Failure to make proper use of the squad, and failure to give support / have condidence in his own players is in my eyes his biggest failings, apart from the pretty obvious lack of tactical nous.

By playing the same XI week in, week out, he has noone on the bench with hunger, as they are all seemingly downheartened by the lack of chances and trust.

People say his former teams scored goals, and it may be me being wrong, but I seem to remember that his Birmingham days were full of the same dross we have been served this season.

Now, I appreciate that Norwich will not be able to compete with the big boys for the forseeable future, and I appreciate the thought that our current squad is not really good enough to break into the top 8 in the Premiership, but they are in my eyes not much worse than the likes of WBA, Swansea, etc, and should be able to gather safety in the relative comforts of midtable without too much of a hassle.

When you remember the home games vs QPR, Fulham, Newcastle, etc where Hughton clearly was happy to get a point, when the game was there for the taking with some more adventurous approach, I simply dont trust this guy to take us forward next season.

It does not matter if it is Holt of RVW playing isolated on his own up front, even Van Persie would struggle with no support.
Now, Pilkington has been injured a lot, Bennett not involved as much due to Snoddy having a great season, Howson has been deployed too deep, which does clearly not suit him, and I dont understand why Johnson has been such an everpresent either, espescially in our home games, where we should dare to dictate tempo against all but the top 4 teams.
Failing to adress the striker problem, even during the summer, is a fault of Hughton, me thinks.
During January, it was always going to be difficult to bring quaility in, due to inflated prices, but starting Holt, on his own, up front in a 4-5-1, when he cleary has no pace to threaten space behind the defence is terrible tactically, as Hughton also limites the support from midfield with his rigid system. Howson has never been free to roam into the box to support, and even with Tettey/Johnson sitting deep at almost all times, it is better to play a pacy man up front in the hope of a quick counter (Jackson/Bennett?)

Personally I think that most of the players would not be bothered to see the back of Hughton this summer, espescially someone like Holt, maybe also Wes, Pilks, etc.
I dont think the board will do something with the manager though,  but McNally surely must have noticed the fans grunts during this campaign.

Norwich have never been a team to defend their way to points. The culture is not like this here, and it never will.
Maybe Hughton has a more qadvanced way of playing than the current squad skill levels allows for, but still it is in the managers best interests to play to his squads strengths, and I just cant see Hughton having done that this season, despite the success of staying up.
Without the massive failure of QPR and to a certain extent also Wigan (Readings demise was expected), we would be down this year.

I would welcome a change of manager this summer, but the chances for that happening are very, very slim.





[/quote]

I was beginning to think you were making some decent points until you came up with that nonsensical statement. It was similar to "if my auntie had testicles she''d be my uncle".

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[quote user="Zak Burger"][quote user="grefstad"]

People say his former teams scored goals, and it may be me being wrong, but I seem to remember that his Birmingham days were full of the same dross we have been served this season.

[/quote]

(Goals for 78 (4th highest) goal difference +27 (4th highest)).


Great post [Y]
[/quote]

Why let facts get in the way of biased, based on nothing, opinions.

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[quote user="grefstad"][quote user="hogesar"]I can''t help but think that straight from the off, his tactics have been based upon, at least partly, the pressure on him. His first full Prem season, with a squad which performed well last year, filling the boots of a manager who achieved a double promotion and retained premier league status, the board coming out and saying "failure is not an option this season". That, rightly or wrongly, puts him in a COMPLETELY different mentality than what Lambert would have had. Lambert''s free open game reflected the fact that not only did we not expect to get promoted, we didn''t really expect to stay up either. He''s formed a solid spine in the team which needs some tinkering to balance out attack and defense. He needs to sign players with a bit more pace and movement about them. The potential is there. And i don''t think there''s too many better managers available. I also would trust Hughton to spend our money wisely, as he has done thus far.[/quote]

Good post, hogesar
The psychological part of this should not be underestimated. It is always hard to take over when the former manager was successful and "loved". An eventual failure of Hughton would be seen upon as a much bigger failure than if Lambert had failed in keeping us up last season.

So yes, maybe Hughtons over-cautious approach was due to this fact.

I''ve noticed the press have also written quite a few articles about Hughtons cautiousness, so it is not just the supporters, but also the "neutrals" noticing this.

I dont think we should play open, adventurous football just to become media darlings like, example, Swansea.
Hughton is far too pragmatic to do that, and so am I.

But playing to the strengths of the squad must be the basis of any manager of this club, and I just can''t see that Hughton has done that.
Even coloured by the success of staying up I find it hard to say that Hughton and his coaching team has done particularly well, and although it may seem harsh to suggest it, even during the 10 match unbeaten run, we did not play particlarly well, but we were well organized, ever-cautious, and capitalized on other teams failings. Nothing wrong with that, ofcourse, but you surely can not base your play on other teams failings all the time.

I cant help (maybe it is just a stupid theory from me though), that when a team play defensively, like we did at Arsenal, and got done by dodgy refereeing, it is mainly due to the ref also seeing the game as "unfair" on the hosts, having pressed for much of the game, not getting anything, and maybe, due to the ref also being human and prone to errors, the home team get the small bias their adventourness "deserves", and therefore get the rub of the green with dodgy decisions.
Crazy theory, I admit, but I think there may be something in it.

Sometimes you to make your own luck, and in the game vs Everton, and to a certian extent vs WBA, the players through caution to the wind and went for it, and got their just awards.

For me, staying up this season is not much due to Hughton, but due to the general quality in the squad. I dont think Hughtons management has made us stay up, infact, I believe it has slightly hampered us.
Having said that, Hughton was spot on with his tactics against the big boys, vs Man U and Arse at home, but he can''t play the same way vs teams we should compete well with, like Fulham, Newcastle, Wigan, QPR, etc.
Thats one of his major shortcomings. Failure to adapt to situations and act accordingly.




[/quote]

 

I''m trying to recall. Which planet did you say you came from?

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[quote user="grefstad"][quote user="Zak Burger"][quote user="grefstad"]

People say his former teams scored goals, and it may be me being wrong, but I seem to remember that his Birmingham days were full of the same dross we have been served this season.

[/quote]

(Goals for 78 (4th highest) goal difference +27 (4th highest)).


Great post [Y]
[/quote]

Blah. Did not say much about the quality fo their play though.
Even though the goals were scored, maybe 65% was from set pieces?
[/quote]

But he has disproved your ridiculous statement by giving you some facts. What have you done in return? Just guessed again and said "maybe".

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I think ultimately, in the cold light of day people need to take a step back from the hysteria and actually look at the season as a whole.

Look at our league position, our points tally, who we will likely finish above, the relative strength of our squad, and the reasons why Hughton had to set out as he did sometimes.

Hopefully if people can manage to do this objectively they will realise that Hughton has fulfilled his brief, which was to keep us up, and, by definition, the season is a success.

You can cry all you like about tactics and opinions, but the bottom line is we will be playing Premiership football next season, with a stronger squad than we had this season(hopefully).

Some folks need to have a sense of realism in regard to just how hard this league is.

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[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="E.L.F."]" He took over a squad finishing 12th in the premier league. The league table does not lie. " And HE has the team sitting 12th in the table in the present. You''re right, the league table does not lie. IHWT[/quote]


So will we still be 12th after the Man City game ?  If we attack with quality as I know we can I think so, maybe higher, but play for the usual draw and we will be tonked IMO and finish a few places lower.  Let''s stop showing teams respect and go out to beat them !!!  Winning breeds confidence and will also set us up for a good start next season. Hughton has overmanaged the squad IMO and that has to change.
[/quote]

Being a fairly simple person, could you explain in words of one syllable how and how?

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[quote user="Webbo118"]

[quote user="Crystal Canary"]Sometimes the comments on this forum just leave me dumbfounded. To those of you who persist with this notion that we exist in this fairyland in which Norwich are an established Premier League team, commanding world-class players in a constant bid to qualify for the Champions League, let me just say... WHAT. THE. FRIGGIDY?? Seriously?? Our Norwich, wonderful and brilliant as it is, were at the bottom of League 1 a few seasons ago, close to bankruptcy! Why on earth do you think we should be swanning our way through the Premier League without a care in the world? Last season was an aberration, fueled by the Lambert philosophy of going gung-ho, using nothing more than the momentum of several seasons of rapid progress. It was never going to last, and someone had to take the reins, put on the brakes, and consolidate the team. It was an unenviable task, and Lambo obviously felt he wasn''t up to it, jumping ship before the pressure got too much. Hughton has succeeded where I''m sure many would have failed, and we should salute him for that. It wasn''t pretty, but it was effective, and now we''re sitting happy in 12th place. 12TH PLACE! In the PREMIER LEAGUE... if not the ''greatest league in the world'', then certainly one of the most competitive; where money talks and, somehow, (and still unbelievably to me) we''re holding our own. Please, just take stock for a moment and consider where we are, and where we''ve come from. Accept that we needed a season of consolidation and that it was never going to live up to the excitement and sheer unbounded exuberance of last season. We are, thanks to Hughton, edging our way to becoming an established Premier League team. I for one am hugely grateful to him, the players and the management. Next year will be so much more exciting, believe me. Onwards and upwards! OTBC![/quote]

Absolutely and totally right.

[/quote]

Absolute twaddle more like - based on making up stuff then trying to knock that down rather than deal with the real problem.

NO ONE has ever claimed here or elswhere that "

Absolute twaddle more like - based on making up stuff then trying to knock that down rather than deal with the real problem.

NO ONE has ever claimed here or elswhere that "we should be swanning our way through the Premier League without a care in the world?" What many have pointed out is that his negative play is not suited to our squad or individual players. In fact it was this supposed ''gung ho '' style of play that saw us achieve our biggest ever win in the PL since 1993 ! Using EIGHT players from the supposedly failing team of the season before.Likewise with this ''consolidation'' guff. You are as good as the season you play. It is not the Grand Prix where your time trial the day before decides your place at the beginning of the race. Eac season is decided on the teams merits and achievents ie points ... as Newcastle, Stoke and Fulham have found. Clubs who were previously supposedly ''consolidated'' ... as Bolton before. No club at our level will ever be established in the PL. It will be a battle every season, something you seem to be unable to grasp. And in that light we need the players playing to the best of the abilities, not in some sub Don Revie style spoiling game where you set out solely to thwart the opposition by whatever method possible. That was abandoned yesterday as Snodgrasses refusal to take a tumble in the box was evidence of.

As to the money and where we were a few years back then I think virtually every genuine City supporter is aware of that fact and don''t need you to try and use that to justify a disturbing failing at the club.We have gone backwards this season, if only in having to draw on the strength of the ''old guard'' to save us. we should never have been in that position - and from what I hear the club won''t risk it happening again in the near future.

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[quote user="City1st"][quote user="Webbo118"]

[quote user="Crystal Canary"]Sometimes the comments on this forum just leave me dumbfounded. To those of you who persist with this notion that we exist in this fairyland in which Norwich are an established Premier League team, commanding world-class players in a constant bid to qualify for the Champions League, let me just say... WHAT. THE. FRIGGIDY?? Seriously?? Our Norwich, wonderful and brilliant as it is, were at the bottom of League 1 a few seasons ago, close to bankruptcy! Why on earth do you think we should be swanning our way through the Premier League without a care in the world? Last season was an aberration, fueled by the Lambert philosophy of going gung-ho, using nothing more than the momentum of several seasons of rapid progress. It was never going to last, and someone had to take the reins, put on the brakes, and consolidate the team. It was an unenviable task, and Lambo obviously felt he wasn''t up to it, jumping ship before the pressure got too much. Hughton has succeeded where I''m sure many would have failed, and we should salute him for that. It wasn''t pretty, but it was effective, and now we''re sitting happy in 12th place. 12TH PLACE! In the PREMIER LEAGUE... if not the ''greatest league in the world'', then certainly one of the most competitive; where money talks and, somehow, (and still unbelievably to me) we''re holding our own. Please, just take stock for a moment and consider where we are, and where we''ve come from. Accept that we needed a season of consolidation and that it was never going to live up to the excitement and sheer unbounded exuberance of last season. We are, thanks to Hughton, edging our way to becoming an established Premier League team. I for one am hugely grateful to him, the players and the management. Next year will be so much more exciting, believe me. Onwards and upwards! OTBC![/quote]

Absolutely and totally right.


[/quote]

Absolute twaddle more like - based on making up stuff then trying to knock that down rather than deal with the real problem.


NO ONE has ever claimed here or elswhere that "

Absolute twaddle more like - based on making up stuff then trying to knock that down rather than deal with the real problem.


NO ONE has ever claimed here or elswhere that "we should be swanning our way through the Premier League without a care in the world?" What many have pointed out is that his negative play is not suited to our squad or individual players. In fact it was this supposed ''gung ho '' style of play that saw us achieve our biggest ever win in the PL since 1993 ! Using EIGHT players from the supposedly failing team of the season before.

Likewise with this ''consolidation'' guff. You are as good as the season you play. It is not the Grand Prix where your time trial the day before decides your place at the beginning of the race. Eac season is decided on the teams merits and achievents ie points ... as Newcastle, Stoke and Fulham have found. Clubs who were previously supposedly ''consolidated'' ... as Bolton before. No club at our level will ever be established in the PL. It will be a battle every season, something you seem to be unable to grasp. And in that light we need the players playing to the best of the abilities, not in some sub Don Revie style spoiling game where you set out solely to thwart the opposition by whatever method possible. That was abandoned yesterday as Snodgrasses refusal to take a tumble in the box was evidence of.


As to the money and where we were a few years back then I think virtually every genuine City supporter is aware of that fact and don''t need you to try and use that to justify a disturbing failing at the club.

We have gone backwards this season, if only in having to draw on the strength of the ''old guard'' to save us. we should never have been in that position - and from what I hear the club won''t risk it happening again in the near future.




[/quote]

Please, tell us more.

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Is it only me, or could it be others being pissed of by this Webbo118 dude, spreading his one-liner comments to "answer" long posts in this forum?Could it be that his 2000+ posts are just utter dross like his oneliners?Imagine if people visiting this forum could actually contribute with their thoughts instead of only blasting others for what they think.

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[quote user="City1st"]We have gone backwards this season, if only in having to draw on the strength of the ''old guard'' to save us. we should never have been in that position - and from what I hear the club won''t risk it happening again in the near future.[/quote]Got a contact in the club have we?  Do enlighten us.What "twaddle".

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oh dearas you have NO idea what I know then you have little evidence to comment

though that hasn''t stopped your previous utterances has it ?

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What I am asking for is some sense of realism, rather than the pig-headed refusal to accept the position we''re in and the circumstances of the club.

If the negative play isn''t suited to the club, then why are we in the same position in the league as last season, and why are the mighty Wigan, with all their flair and latin creativity, about to get dumped out of the league?

What do you want exactly? Would you swap our position with Wigan, if we played their attractive style of football? I doubt it.

Of course there''s a need for consolidation. This isn''t some cup run where you batter the opposition and hope for the best.. this is a long-haul, 38 game slog, and it takes structure and consolidation at all levels, not just in the playing team but in the finances, the facilities, the staff and management. Mcnally has mentioned countless times on how hard they''re working to CONSOLIDATE the club: to get the finances in order, to structure and develop the academy, to bring in the best players for Hughton and eventually expand the stadium. You don''t just take the season as a one-off, sprint to the finish.. you slowly and progressively put the pieces in place and develop the club.

We are Premier League

We are 12th in the league

We have now survived our 2nd year, despite losing our manager.

Are you seriously telling me this is a ''disturbing'' failure, just because we''re not playing the free-flowing, tiki-taka football of Barcelona, which you and some other seem to think we deserve/expect/demand?

Take a step back. Look at the bigger picture. And be thankful.

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I don''t agree with everything you''ve put grefstad, but I think you''ve made some very interesting points.

Good post

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[quote user="Crystal Canary"]What I am asking for is some sense of realism, rather than the pig-headed refusal to accept the position we''re in and the circumstances of the club.

If the negative play isn''t suited to the club, then why are we in the same position in the league as last season, and why are the mighty Wigan, with all their flair and latin creativity, about to get dumped out of the league?

What do you want exactly? Would you swap our position with Wigan, if we played their attractive style of football? I doubt it.

Of course there''s a need for consolidation. This isn''t some cup run where you batter the opposition and hope for the best.. this is a long-haul, 38 game slog, and it takes structure and consolidation at all levels, not just in the playing team but in the finances, the facilities, the staff and management. Mcnally has mentioned countless times on how hard they''re working to CONSOLIDATE the club: to get the finances in order, to structure and develop the academy, to bring in the best players for Hughton and eventually expand the stadium. You don''t just take the season as a one-off, sprint to the finish.. you slowly and progressively put the pieces in place and develop the club.

We are Premier League

We are 12th in the league

We have now survived our 2nd year, despite losing our manager.

Are you seriously telling me this is a ''disturbing'' failure, just because we''re not playing the free-flowing, tiki-taka football of Barcelona, which you and some other seem to think we deserve/expect/demand?

Take a step back. Look at the bigger picture. And be thankful.[/quote]

dearie, dear methere''s a worrying thought that this chap actually believes this guffConsolidating the bloody training ground !  The debt was consolidated FOUR YEARS AGO, it is now at the point of being paid off. What on earth that has to do with stopping the players playing their natural game."You don''t just take the season as a one-off"Then what the heck is it ? Each season starts afresh, it is a basically a one offThe disturbing failure is that we have a team that has only achieved a win because they played AGAINST they managers instructions. And we are in a position where we could finish ONE point above relegation - lets compare the two seasons then.In the mean time maybe you could get a grown up to explain to you the meaning of this new found word to you ... consolidation - and then perhaps tell us what other names you usually post under and why you are too ashamed to post under one of them on this thread.

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[quote user="City1st"]The question is whether the players can continue this metaphorical ''two fingers up to you mate'' approach and play as they see fit. I suspect there was a feeling that it was their careers and wages on the line as well and as the WBA game was posibly the last chance, so to speak, then they were not going to be tied to the mast and meekly go down with the ship.  Gone was the tactic of passing the ball backwards/sideways once it had crossed the halfway line, gone also was the tactic of stumbling over a players feet to get a free kick - Snoddy even stayed up in the penalty box when he had clearly been caught. The tactic of back pedalling and not challenging the opposition when they have the ball and are running at the defence was turned on it''s head by Hooly having a run and a shot. In fact more shots on goal yesterday than in a handfull of previous games. Holt was back to his usual free ranging best, and Howson had somehow cut the chain that only ever allowed him to move in a semi circle 30 yards away from his own penalty spot. Yes, it helped having a team who had been out of sorts in the past couple of games, and as it appears their manager has been trying out ''new stuff/line ups etc. And yes, it also helped having a crowd who were up for it - they in their part being helped by a team that not only were up for it, but looking to have the intent of doing it as well. But you still have to play, something that against other teams who were no better than WBA ie Newcastle, Stoke, Wigan we struggled to do.  Whether the previous style of play was dicated by ''higher'' voices than Hughton''s is at the moment unknown, but what is not unknown is that the style of play yesterday, and most of the team, pre dated him. Posting up ridiculous old tosh about Hughton inheriting a poor squad that had all but collapsed has added little to this debate. The figures clearly disprove this and the evidence of yesterday demonstrate that given the right conditions the players can deliver.  And that poses the question of whether Hughton is, in that case, a hindrance or a help.ps a blo ody marvellous day and game that was all too reminiscent of the fun of previous seasons, a true end of term party that suggested very few will welcome another term at Bleak House [/quote]

To quote a well known poster, what "utter twaddle".    The players took responsibility.   That is not a reflection on the manager, it is a reflection on the players who stood up to be counted when it mattered.   Any manager relies on his players to take responsibility, we are no different.  The team have been under a lot of pressure since Christmas after setting such high standards beforehand.  The difficult matches over the new year made it harder to get back to those standards.  Anyway, not all the matches since then have been dire, there have been some good performances along the way.   A terminally narrow view of our season, City 1st.  

 

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grefstad you''ve made a few clear points. Agree we should play to the strengths of our players.

 

morty when I look back over the season I wonder where we would be if we had played a few of those games we lost like we did yesterday. The players have proved they can play attacking football under Hughton and that was Holt''s best game in ages. What changed behind the scenes to make that happen? Was it the situation we found overselves in at ko? Was it the Pilks incident with him allegedly refusing to bow to Hughton''s tactics? We won''t ever know. Can we play ''cliche and idiom bingo'' with your posts?

I agree Hughton''s brief was to keep us up. Will he have learnt from this season? We must hope so if the board see fit to retain his services.

 

Interesting thought from you city1st about the 2 fingers up attitude as I mentioned above.

 

Crystal Canary seems to be stuck in a time warp over our debts. I thought the outstanding debt was due to be paid off after this season if we stayed up. Can anyone confirm this?

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[quote user="City1st"] In the mean time maybe you could get a grown up to explain to you the meaning of this new found word to you ... consolidation - and then perhaps tell us what other names you usually post under and why you are too ashamed to post under one of them on this thread.[/quote]

Oh gosh, City1st... what was I thinking?! Your eloquence and persuasive reasoning, without resorting to the need of belittling or insulting, has me completely convinced! /end sarcasm

I''m a new poster. Joined the other day. Been reading for a while and thought i''d add my opinion. Thought it might be nice to add a voice of reason to the offensive, sputum-filled invective of the angry, ignorant minded few. Ok with you, sweetheart?

Are you seriously saying that they went out there playing against the manager''s instructions? Just because Howson said they went out there playing with a freedom, doesn''t mean it wasn''t Hughton''s desire to do so.

Every win, every draw and every loss is down to Hughton''s managing. He has to take the rough with the smooth. You can''t rip him apart for playing a defensive style and losing, and not give him credit when they go out attacking and win. Besides, that ''negative'' style of football also helped us pick up points against the big boys, keeping tight and hitting on the counter.

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[quote user="drurys testamonials V 15"]

grefstad you''ve made a few clear points. Agree we should play to the strengths of our players.   morty when I look back over the season I wonder where we would be if we had played a few of those games we lost like we did yesterday. The players have proved they can play attacking football under Hughton and that was Holt''s best game in ages. What changed behind the scenes to make that happen? Was it the situation we found overselves in at ko? Was it the Pilks incident with him allegedly refusing to bow to Hughton''s tactics? We won''t ever know. Can we play ''cliche and idiom bingo'' with your posts?  I agree Hughton''s brief was to keep us up. Will he have learnt from this season? We must hope so if the board see fit to retain his services.  Interesting thought from you city1st about the 2 fingers up attitude as I mentioned above.  Crystal Canary seems to be stuck in a time warp over our debts. I thought the outstanding debt was due to be paid off after this season if we stayed up. Can anyone confirm this?

[/quote]

Clearly, with some people the manager takes the blame when we lose and the players take the credit when we win.   Does that seem entirely fair?  The situation called for players to step up and take responsibility yesterday, after losing to Aston Villa (which was not the dire performance some have stated).   The players stepped up and did the job.   That they were able to is a credit to the manager too, or is it the case that the manager takes the blame for bad things that happen, then gets no credit for the good things that happen?      The season has overall been a success, there have been signs through the season of some very positive play, as well as some frustrating performances.  On balance we are in the premiership on merit - as we were last season.     That is a cause for celebration - and should be the catalyst for a SUCCESSFUL manager to further develop the squad and forward play.   Two fingers up??  Some fans need that treatment, imo.

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[quote user="grefstad"]Is it only me, or could it be others being pissed of by this Webbo118 dude, spreading his one-liner comments to "answer" long posts in this forum?
Could it be that his 2000+ posts are just utter dross like his oneliners?
Imagine if people visiting this forum could actually contribute with their thoughts instead of only blasting others for what they think.


[/quote]

 

Looks like it''s only you [:D]

 

Webbo118, Crystal Canary and about 20 other posters have all posted really good and rational posts on this topic.

 

However, there are a few posters (always the same, sad few!) who have not come to terms with "his lordship''s" departure and will have absolutely nothing but anti CH views. They are known as the HOB NOBs - Hughton Out Brigade - the rest is self explanatory!

 

These folk will not allow common sense or fact to stand in the way of their vitriolic attacks and have been known to resort to personal insults against our manager.

 

They believe that there are other managers out there "gagging" to become Norwich''s next manager. I have asked some of these poor deluded souls to suggest who they would prefer (given that PL is a non-starter, as is probably SAF, Benitez and Mancini) options I gave included:

Tony Pulis (don''t even think about it!)

Roberto Martinez - nice chap, but why does his team perenially fight relegation?

Colin? - as you can see, I''ve given up!

 

I really am looking forward to seeing some sensible suggestions. (I even had one poor old thing who thought that "anyone" was better than CH - ha ha ha)

 

Now, ask the board and the fans of the 8 teams below us, who they would prefer, their current incumbent or someone who consolidated a mid table position? We are guaranteed premier league football next season, 5 teams are not!

 

Maybe some people thought that PL''s comments about the "fans being t''rrific for me" was some sort of never ending "love-in" between them and PL - most people saw his ecstatic response after Agbonlahor''s 2nd goal against us as being the final closure of the PL chapter!

 

So in conclusion, my opinion of CH, which at the start of the season was ambivalent, has now grown to high respect. I love the dignity and professionalism with which he operates, which portrays a very positive image of and for, Norwich City Football Club!

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ldc I''d say it was a mix of both players and management who have to take the blame when we lose and credit when we win. If you go to a restaurant and have a poorly cooked and badly presented meal who do you blame? The chef/cook for bad cooking or the waiter/waitress for bringing out poorly presented food? Both are at fault.

Same goes for football games win or lose. Everyone''s involved in the result just at different levels. However the manager is the person who is held responsible with both the football or the restaurant (sticking with that analogy). Villa wasn''t dire all game but we just didn''t do the business when they scored. You said The situation called for players to step up and take responsibility yesterday.

Why didn''t the players step up and do the job when we conceded in that game? Or any other game? How was it more important to win yesterday''s game than any other game this season? Leaving aside the fact we needed the points because we hadn''t stepped up in other games. Every game is important over a season and players should being stepping up and taking responsibility every game. Every point matters.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]Clearly, with some people the manager takes the blame when we lose and the players take the credit when we win.   Does that seem entirely fair?[/quote]Whilst you can''t knock results against teams like Man Utd and Arsenal, by no means were they our best performances from a footballing perspective per se - even if they were some of our very best from a results based outlook.I don''t like losing, I don''t think anyone does, but if we have to lose I''d rather lose going down fighting, playing good football whilst trying to actively get something from the game, than by having sat back for 90 mins, defending it out and hoping to nick a goal from a set play...The games where we have arguably turned in some of our best performances in this respect have been the games where the players have either had more freedom (such as yesterday), or where they said f**k it - let''s go for it regardless of what the manager wants (like at Everton).Both manager and players have to take a portion of the blame for a loss, just like they have to take a portion of the credit when we win. My argument would be that the difference in size between those portions is certainly not balanced and nor should it be.You don''t ask a racehorse to win a marathon, so when the manager sets the team out in a manner that does this (i.e. doesn''t play to their strengths), then the larger portion of blame has to go that way because of it. Similarly, if the manager gave them their ''head'' and told them to play as best they can, and they then turn out an awful performance, at that point the balance shifts and they have to shoulder the heavier load of blame. For most of the season it''s been the former rather than the latter IMHO, so whilst it may not be entirely fair, it''s not entirely unfair either...

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"grefstad"Is it only me, or could it be others being pissed of by this Webbo118 dude, spreading his one-liner comments to "answer" long posts in this forum?Could it be that his 2000+ posts are just utter dross like his oneliners?Imagine if people visiting this forum could actually contribute with their thoughts instead of only blasting others for what they think.

I think he''s cool!

And why waste a thousand words on people who aren''t listening?

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[quote user="Webbo118"]

[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="E.L.F."]" He took over a squad finishing 12th in the premier league. The league table does not lie. " And HE has the team sitting 12th in the table in the present. You''re right, the league table does not lie. IHWT[/quote]

So will we still be 12th after the Man City game ?  If we attack with quality as I know we can I think so, maybe higher, but play for the usual draw and we will be tonked IMO and finish a few places lower.  Let''s stop showing teams respect and go out to beat them !!!  Winning breeds confidence and will also set us up for a good start next season. Hughton has overmanaged the squad IMO and that has to change. [/quote]

Being a fairly simple person, could you explain in words of one syllable how and how?

[/quote]He has rigidly stuck to his cautious approach telling players to do things that go against their attacking instincts, even during games when if we had opened up we could have gained a win. On certain occasions, such as happened in the last game it''s best just to let the players get on with it and utilise their own skills to maximum effect rather than restricting, constraining and ultimately frustrating them and the supporters.  

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[quote user="Dusk1983"]Are you on drugs, Webbo? You''re posting utter bilge mate. Literally, complete nonsense.[/quote]

It''s not nonsense, makes complete sense. I think you might mean grefstad - now there is some properly made up twaddle.

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