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Tetteys Jig

Hughton opinions now?

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My opinion is mixed on him. To be perfectly honest i would rather him not be here, that being said I admit he seems to pick out a decent player, but for every Bassong there is a Harry Kane IMO. I also hate the way he continually praises the clubs we play against and not us.

I think it was the players who decided it was time to play that way yesterday rather than Hughton. If Hughton really wanted to play open attacking football i have a feeling we would of started with two forwards. However yesterday was the best we have played for a full 90 all season. His statement afterward about not expecting that every week is another reason i don''t think he liked how freely we played.

Having kept us up he will be here next season no doubt in my mind about that. however if after another transfer window we play the first two months of the season like we did since Christmas he will have to go.

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Sometimes the comments on this forum just leave me dumbfounded.

To those of you who persist with this notion that we exist in this fairyland in which Norwich are an established Premier League team, commanding world-class players in a constant bid to qualify for the Champions League, let me just say...

WHAT. THE. FRIGGIDY??

Seriously??

Our Norwich, wonderful and brilliant as it is, were at the bottom of League 1 a few seasons ago, close to bankruptcy! Why on earth do you think we should be swanning our way through the Premier League without a care in the world? Last season was an aberration, fueled by the Lambert philosophy of going gung-ho, using nothing more than the momentum of several seasons of rapid progress. It was never going to last, and someone had to take the reins, put on the brakes, and consolidate the team. It was an unenviable task, and Lambo obviously felt he wasn''t up to it, jumping ship before the pressure got too much. Hughton has succeeded where I''m sure many would have failed, and we should salute him for that. It wasn''t pretty, but it was effective, and now we''re sitting happy in 12th place. 12TH PLACE! In the PREMIER LEAGUE... if not the ''greatest league in the world'', then certainly one of the most competitive; where money talks and, somehow, (and still unbelievably to me) we''re holding our own.

Please, just take stock for a moment and consider where we are, and where we''ve come from. Accept that we needed a season of consolidation and that it was never going to live up to the excitement and sheer unbounded exuberance of last season.

We are, thanks to Hughton, edging our way to becoming an established Premier League team. I for one am hugely grateful to him, the players and the management. Next year will be so much more exciting, believe me.

Onwards and upwards!

OTBC!

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undecided. Always going to be hard in second season, also following Lambert. In saying that has not made it easy for himself, with tactics, substitutions etc. Willing to see how things pan out, see his summer signings and how the first ten games are approached before making a judgement.

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[quote user="ricky knight"]undecided. Always going to be hard in second season, also following Lambert. In saying that has not made it easy for himself, with tactics, substitutions etc. Willing to see how things pan out, see his summer signings and how the first ten games are approached before making a judgement.[/quote]

 

I think that speaks for me too Ricky.

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[quote user="Hannibal II"]My opinion is mixed on him. To be perfectly honest i would rather him not be here, that being said I admit he seems to pick out a decent player, but for every Bassong there is a Harry Kane IMO. I also hate the way he continually praises the clubs we play against and not us.

I think it was the players who decided it was time to play that way yesterday rather than Hughton. If Hughton really wanted to play open attacking football i have a feeling we would of started with two forwards. However yesterday was the best we have played for a full 90 all season. His statement afterward about not expecting that every week is another reason i don''t think he liked how freely we played.

Having kept us up he will be here next season no doubt in my mind about that. however if after another transfer window we play the first two months of the season like we did since Christmas he will have to go.[/quote]If he really said that then he is not the man for the job long-term. I''d try to get a man of the ilk of Martinez or Lambert that tries to win every game. We don''t expect to get a point every game but we want to be in with a chance.  Around 13 wins gets safety in the Prem as opposed to 38 draws and I know what I prefer   !!!!  

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I think if people believe that 1 game makes it breaks someone, they couldn''t be wider of the mark.

The pant wetters will say 1 win doesn''t make him Mourinho. Whereas the happy clappers will say,1 defeat doesn''t make him Roeder.

The pant wetters say that this is how we should have played during the season. The happy clappers are saying "look at that performance!"

I find it quite funny.

For me the jury is still out. Negative tactics, not believing in our strengths (8 players of last years "not good enough" sqd played yesterday), poor substitutions and forgetting the foundations that were left.

Changes will hopefully happen in the summer (squad wise) and we can bring in quality. Hopefully he will play them to their strengths, rather than the rigid turd we have seen this season.

I think we will know but October what the future holds. The question is, can Hughton go against his "mould" and mix it up a bit?

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That rigid turd kept us up.  We could have played all lambert and be down or facing relegation still...like Lambert.The draws were crucial.  We are not flippin Barcelona, we were always going to e close to relegation this season regardless of how we played.People''s perception of how good our squad is is insane.  Next season they will be expecting us to break into Eurpoe, when the reality is not that for most of the Prem league teams, avoiding relegation is the target every season.[quote user="can u sit down please"]I think if people believe that 1 game makes it breaks someone, they couldn''t be wider of the mark.

The pant wetters will say 1 win doesn''t make him Mourinho. Whereas the happy clappers will say,1 defeat doesn''t make him Roeder.

The pant wetters say that this is how we should have played during the season. The happy clappers are saying "look at that performance!"

I find it quite funny.

For me the jury is still out. Negative tactics, not believing in our strengths (8 players of last years "not good enough" sqd played yesterday), poor substitutions and forgetting the foundations that were left.

Changes will hopefully happen in the summer (squad wise) and we can bring in quality. Hopefully he will play them to their strengths, rather than the rigid turd we have seen this season.

I think we will know but October what the future holds. The question is, can Hughton go against his "mould" and mix it up a bit?[/quote]

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I''ve been quite irrational with my opinions in Hughton. Just last week I was crying for MoN to take the reigns and now I feel quite stupid. As others have said give him at most ten games to show progression and then make a decision. Ultimately Hughton made a meal of our survival but it was always going to be very difficult - it''s done and he deserves the summer break and the second attempt!

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We''re only a point off last year''s "heroic" season under Lambert with a game to go. QPR and Reading aside, there''s been much less to separate the bottom 6 or 7 teams this year.Hughton has bought well so far so I''ve confidence in him this Summer. With RVW already wrapped up (impressive in its own right) I hope we''ll sign some players - a central passer/creator somewhere between Fox and Hoolahan, and a winger or two with pace - to deliberately get the best out of him.That all said, if we''re 6-10 games into next season with Tettey and Johnson both still deployed deep, Hoolahan/a new CM not starting regularly, and RVW isolated up front on his own, it''s time we move on to a more adventurous manager.Pochettino''s early success seems to have faded but I understand Southampton''s rationale. Get a homegrown manager to build a solid foundation, then turn to the continent to add a more technical attacking approach. There''s no doubt he''ll be signing players Adkins wouldn''t have a hope of finding, and you''ll likely see some unknown Spanish talents next year and Saints will be an extremely strong, continental-style attacking outfit. I wouldn''t mind a future like that for NCFC.

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[quote user="ref89"]That rigid turd kept us up.  We could have played all lambert and be down or facing relegation still...like Lambert.The draws were crucial.  We are not flippin Barcelona, we were always going to e close to relegation this season regardless of how we played.People''s perception of how good our squad is is insane.  Next season they will be expecting us to break into Eurpoe, when the reality is not that for most of the Prem league teams, avoiding relegation is the target every season.[quote user="can u sit down please"]I think if people believe that 1 game makes it breaks someone, they couldn''t be wider of the mark.

The pant wetters will say 1 win doesn''t make him Mourinho. Whereas the happy clappers will say,1 defeat doesn''t make him Roeder.

The pant wetters say that this is how we should have played during the season. The happy clappers are saying "look at that performance!"

I find it quite funny.

For me the jury is still out. Negative tactics, not believing in our strengths (8 players of last years "not good enough" sqd played yesterday), poor substitutions and forgetting the foundations that were left.

Changes will hopefully happen in the summer (squad wise) and we can bring in quality. Hopefully he will play them to their strengths, rather than the rigid turd we have seen this season.

I think we will know but October what the future holds. The question is, can Hughton go against his "mould" and mix it up a bit?[/quote][/quote]

Again, a bold statement to say we would be down but not backed up. Just a flippant comment. Can you prove lamberts approach would''ve taken us down?

It''s not about playing all Lambert. It was about a balanced approach that was flexible to adapt to situations whether "in game" or our tactics pre game.

We seem to have have had the same approach for 35/37 games. In some it worked, so can''t complain. It''s when it didn''t that concerned me and others.

What if we took yesterday''s approach in those now "infamous" games v Qpr,whu,saints,Swansea,villa, toon & Fulham? I would argue that WBA are better than all of them (league table) and this is what frustrates us pant wetters.

I didn''t want to mention lambert as this thread is about Hughton but it seems that when people can''t challenge a point, they throw their arms in the air and say "we would''ve went down with him!"

I just hope we see a change in approach, something I think 99% if people would agree with.

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There were times when we didn''t play well, especially since Christmas, but at the same time there were matches when we could have achieved more, with a little luck on decisions and also the elimination of errors.

 

Looking back now, it is possible to see the improvement coming - the improvement in Howson, and the entry of Ryan Bennett probably helped. In the last few games we came close to some good results, - Arsenal, Villa, Wigan, but didn''t quite make it.

 

Even if we can now see the gradual improvement,  the WBA result was a step change, probably for a few reasons, but mainly because the players wanted it, scored and kept going with no sitting back. The Baggies were poor, and helped us in the goals, but to some extent they were poor because we stopped them playing as they wanted, - the formidable three lost their adjective.

 

Every member of the squad who went on to the pitch played a part. Perhaps this was another reason - Holt re-found his enthusiasm, and one or two inconsistent players were at their best. It was a genuine team effort.

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Let be realistic, we''ve been given a get out of jail free card this last week and I thank Swansea, Chelsea and West Brom for gifting us our survival. Though well done to everyone for doing the business yesterday, we have to recognise that after our defeat to Villa, results couldn''t have been more perfect for us.

I will reserve my judgement of Hughton until next season now, it''s still hard to say whether he will be a success or not.

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While I appreciate Hughtons efforts in keeping us up, I am not a fan of his approach to games, his negative/dour tactics, his constant overlooking of parts of the squad, his rigid system and seemingly "over-coaching" of players, his failure to turn a game by the use of substitutions (or at least trying to), his constant bigging up of the opposition and his constant reference to Norwich as "a club of our stature", meaning his is making us smaller than we are.Nor am I a fan of his seemingly calculated approach of getting help from other teams to ease the burden on his team, as this is a dangerous approach.Failure to make proper use of the squad, and failure to give support / have condidence in his own players is in my eyes his biggest failings, apart from the pretty obvious lack of tactical nous.By playing the same XI week in, week out, he has noone on the bench with hunger, as they are all seemingly downheartened by the lack of chances and trust.People say his former teams scored goals, and it may be me being wrong, but I seem to remember that his Birmingham days were full of the same dross we have been served this season. Now, I appreciate that Norwich will not be able to compete with the big boys for the forseeable future, and I appreciate the thought that our current squad is not really good enough to break into the top 8 in the Premiership, but they are in my eyes not much worse than the likes of WBA, Swansea, etc, and should be able to gather safety in the relative comforts of midtable without too much of a hassle.When you remember the home games vs QPR, Fulham, Newcastle, etc where Hughton clearly was happy to get a point, when the game was there for the taking with some more adventurous approach, I simply dont trust this guy to take us forward next season.It does not matter if it is Holt of RVW playing isolated on his own up front, even Van Persie would struggle with no support.Now, Pilkington has been injured a lot, Bennett not involved as much due to Snoddy having a great season, Howson has been deployed too deep, which does clearly not suit him, and I dont understand why Johnson has been such an everpresent either, espescially in our home games, where we should dare to dictate tempo against all but the top 4 teams.Failing to adress the striker problem, even during the summer, is a fault of Hughton, me thinks.During January, it was always going to be difficult to bring quaility in, due to inflated prices, but starting Holt, on his own, up front in a 4-5-1, when he cleary has no pace to threaten space behind the defence is terrible tactically, as Hughton also limites the support from midfield with his rigid system. Howson has never been free to roam into the box to support, and even with Tettey/Johnson sitting deep at almost all times, it is better to play a pacy man up front in the hope of a quick counter (Jackson/Bennett?)Personally I think that most of the players would not be bothered to see the back of Hughton this summer, espescially someone like Holt, maybe also Wes, Pilks, etc.I dont think the board will do something with the manager though,  but McNally surely must have noticed the fans grunts during this campaign.Norwich have never been a team to defend their way to points. The culture is not like this here, and it never will. Maybe Hughton has a more qadvanced way of playing than the current squad skill levels allows for, but still it is in the managers best interests to play to his squads strengths, and I just cant see Hughton having done that this season, despite the success of staying up.Without the massive failure of QPR and to a certain extent also Wigan (Readings demise was expected), we would be down this year.I would welcome a change of manager this summer, but the chances for that happening are very, very slim.

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I feel the criticism of CH has been harsh and unfair. His prime concern at the start of the season was to bolster the defence and that he has done excellently. He tried in January to improve our firepower, but ultimately found that he couldn''t afford what he felt we needed and so concentrated on playing defensively.

Since Christmas our form has been pretty poor, but over the entire season we have played and attracted more points than the teams below us (pretty obvious really). And lets not forget the points unluckily dropped at the start of the season, when we played far better than our results indicated.

The final point though is that with one game of the season remaining we could with a flukey win end up with a top flight top half finish for the first time in over twenty years, something we''ve only managed four times before in our entire history.

Hardly a disastrous season, warranting changing the manager.

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I can''t help but think that straight from the off, his tactics have been based upon, at least partly, the pressure on him.

His first full Prem season, with a squad which performed well last year, filling the boots of a manager who achieved a double promotion and retained premier league status, the board coming out and saying "failure is not an option this season".

That, rightly or wrongly, puts him in a COMPLETELY different mentality than what Lambert would have had. Lambert''s free open game reflected the fact that not only did we not expect to get promoted, we didn''t really expect to stay up either.

He''s formed a solid spine in the team which needs some tinkering to balance out attack and defense. He needs to sign players with a bit more pace and movement about them.

The potential is there. And i don''t think there''s too many better managers available. I also would trust Hughton to spend our money wisely, as he has done thus far.

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Fantastic post? More like fantastical.

There''s a reason why the manager won''t be changed this season.. Because he''s done an amazing job and the majority of fans (I hope) can see that.

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Why not challenge his points if you feel that strongly about it?

Amazing job? That''s a strong word. I''d say Guardiola, Ferguson,klopp have done "amazing jobs".

I''d say he''s done "done well but could''ve done better.''"

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[quote user="grefstad"]People say his former teams scored goals, and it may be me being wrong, but I seem to remember that his Birmingham days were full of the same dross we have been served this season. [/quote](Goals for 78 (4th highest) goal difference +27 (4th highest)).Great post [Y]

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[quote user="hogesar"]I can''t help but think that straight from the off, his tactics have been based upon, at least partly, the pressure on him.

His first full Prem season, with a squad which performed well last year, filling the boots of a manager who achieved a double promotion and retained premier league status, the board coming out and saying "failure is not an option this season".

That, rightly or wrongly, puts him in a COMPLETELY different mentality than what Lambert would have had. Lambert''s free open game reflected the fact that not only did we not expect to get promoted, we didn''t really expect to stay up either.

He''s formed a solid spine in the team which needs some tinkering to balance out attack and defense. He needs to sign players with a bit more pace and movement about them.

The potential is there. And i don''t think there''s too many better managers available. I also would trust Hughton to spend our money wisely, as he has done thus far.[/quote]Good post, hogesarThe psychological part of this should not be underestimated. It is always hard to take over when the former manager was successful and "loved". An eventual failure of Hughton would be seen upon as a much bigger failure than if Lambert had failed in keeping us up last season.So yes, maybe Hughtons over-cautious approach was due to this fact.I''ve noticed the press have also written quite a few articles about Hughtons cautiousness, so it is not just the supporters, but also the "neutrals" noticing this.I dont think we should play open, adventurous football just to become media darlings like, example, Swansea.Hughton is far too pragmatic to do that, and so am I.But playing to the strengths of the squad must be the basis of any manager of this club, and I just can''t see that Hughton has done that.Even coloured by the success of staying up I find it hard to say that Hughton and his coaching team has done particularly well, and although it may seem harsh to suggest it, even during the 10 match unbeaten run, we did not play particlarly well, but we were well organized, ever-cautious, and capitalized on other teams failings. Nothing wrong with that, ofcourse, but you surely can not base your play on other teams failings all the time.I cant help (maybe it is just a stupid theory from me though), that when a team play defensively, like we did at Arsenal, and got done by dodgy refereeing, it is mainly due to the ref also seeing the game as "unfair" on the hosts, having pressed for much of the game, not getting anything, and maybe, due to the ref also being human and prone to errors, the home team get the small bias their adventourness "deserves", and therefore get the rub of the green with dodgy decisions.Crazy theory, I admit, but I think there may be something in it.Sometimes you to make your own luck, and in the game vs Everton, and to a certian extent vs WBA, the players through caution to the wind and went for it, and got their just awards.For me, staying up this season is not much due to Hughton, but due to the general quality in the squad. I dont think Hughtons management has made us stay up, infact, I believe it has slightly hampered us.Having said that, Hughton was spot on with his tactics against the big boys, vs Man U and Arse at home, but he can''t play the same way vs teams we should compete well with, like Fulham, Newcastle, Wigan, QPR, etc.Thats one of his major shortcomings. Failure to adapt to situations and act accordingly.

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[quote user="Zak Burger"][quote user="grefstad"]People say his former teams scored goals, and it may be me being wrong, but I seem to remember that his Birmingham days were full of the same dross we have been served this season. [/quote](Goals for 78 (4th highest) goal difference +27 (4th highest)).Great post [Y][/quote]Blah. Did not say much about the quality fo their play though.Even though the goals were scored, maybe 65% was from set pieces?

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You''re just guessing now. Wait til next season, Hughton''s signing have almost all improved the 1st team, we have our record signing coming in and I trust him to continue to progress. If 8 or 9 games in, we''re still playing like we have been since Christmas, then maybe it is time for him to go, but let him really make it "his squad" first.

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The question is whether the players can continue this metaphorical ''two fingers up to you mate'' approach and play as they see fit. I suspect there was a feeling that it was their careers and wages on the line as well and as the WBA game was posibly the last chance, so to speak, then they were not going to be tied to the mast and meekly go down with the ship.Gone was the tactic of passing the ball backwards/sideways once it had crossed the halfway line, gone also was the tactic of stumbling over a players feet to get a free kick - Snoddy even stayed up in the penalty box when he had clearly been caught. The tactic of back pedalling and not challenging the opposition when they have the ball and are running at the defence was turned on it''s head by Hooly having a run and a shot. In fact more shots on goal yesterday than in a handfull of previous games. Holt was back to his usual free ranging best, and Howson had somehow cut the chain that only ever allowed him to move in a semi circle 30 yards away from his own penalty spot.Yes, it helped having a team who had been out of sorts in the past couple of games, and as it appears their manager has been trying out ''new stuff/line ups etc. And yes, it also helped having a crowd who were up for it - they in their part being helped by a team that not only were up for it, but looking to have the intent of doing it as well. But you still have to play, something that against other teams who were no better than WBA ie Newcastle, Stoke, Wigan we struggled to do.Whether the previous style of play was dicated by ''higher'' voices than Hughton''s is at the moment unknown, but what is not unknown is that the style of play yesterday, and most of the team, pre dated him. Posting up ridiculous old tosh about Hughton inheriting a poor squad that had all but collapsed has added little to this debate. The figures clearly disprove this and the evidence of yesterday demonstrate that given the right conditions the players can deliver. And that poses the question of whether Hughton is, in that case, a hindrance or a help.

ps a blo ody marvellous day and game that was all too reminiscent of the fun of previous seasons, a true end of term party that suggested very few will welcome another term at Bleak House 

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To say he inherited a squad who''s best players cost £250k from Blackpool, £150k from Everton reserves and £450k from Shrewsbury, he''s done a great job!

We''re 12th now, never forget where we''ve come from. Echos of Charlton fans on Curbishley. I bet they''d take 12th in the premiership.

It only takes one rash decision and one bad appointment and we could be back down to league one like Wolves.

Face it, until we can spend £500m on our squad, we''re gonna have bad days at the office quite regularly at this level.

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scummer ref89 wrote: A better squad than villa?  Sunderland?  Newcastle? Stoke? Wigan? If you can''t see we are a poor squad the you are an arse.

---------------------------------------------------------

A far better squad than Wigan, QPR, Reading for starters. Sunderland are very average, Bramble, Cattermole, Wickham, Colback, Vaughan, O''shea, Sessègnon, Fletcher. Overrated overpaid dross. Villa have a dismal defense far worse than us.

You keep slagging off our players numpty, they stayed up easily last season, and they should have stayed up easily this season.

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Jimmy Smith: To say he inherited a squad who''s best players cost £250k from Blackpool, £150k from Everton reserves and £450k from Shrewsbury, he''s done a great job!

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Player fees are meaningless... Just look at QPR. Money can easily be spent on toilet. He took over a squad finishing 12th in the premier league. The league table does not lie. And as we have seen this season there are at least 10 teams with a squad no better than ours. Now that we have forked out 8 million on a striker perhaps we can finally put this endless shite about us having no transfer budget to bed. Many of the teams around us have had little or no net transfer spend in recent years with the majority of player purchases funded by player sales.

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" He took over a squad finishing 12th in the premier league. The league table does not lie. "

And HE has the team sitting 12th in the table in the present. You''re right, the league table does not lie.

IHWT

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[quote user="Crystal Canary"]Sometimes the comments on this forum just leave me dumbfounded. To those of you who persist with this notion that we exist in this fairyland in which Norwich are an established Premier League team, commanding world-class players in a constant bid to qualify for the Champions League, let me just say... WHAT. THE. FRIGGIDY?? Seriously?? Our Norwich, wonderful and brilliant as it is, were at the bottom of League 1 a few seasons ago, close to bankruptcy! Why on earth do you think we should be swanning our way through the Premier League without a care in the world? Last season was an aberration, fueled by the Lambert philosophy of going gung-ho, using nothing more than the momentum of several seasons of rapid progress. It was never going to last, and someone had to take the reins, put on the brakes, and consolidate the team. It was an unenviable task, and Lambo obviously felt he wasn''t up to it, jumping ship before the pressure got too much. Hughton has succeeded where I''m sure many would have failed, and we should salute him for that. It wasn''t pretty, but it was effective, and now we''re sitting happy in 12th place. 12TH PLACE! In the PREMIER LEAGUE... if not the ''greatest league in the world'', then certainly one of the most competitive; where money talks and, somehow, (and still unbelievably to me) we''re holding our own. Please, just take stock for a moment and consider where we are, and where we''ve come from. Accept that we needed a season of consolidation and that it was never going to live up to the excitement and sheer unbounded exuberance of last season. We are, thanks to Hughton, edging our way to becoming an established Premier League team. I for one am hugely grateful to him, the players and the management. Next year will be so much more exciting, believe me. Onwards and upwards! OTBC![/quote]

Absolutely and totally right.

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[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Hannibal II"]My opinion is mixed on him. To be perfectly honest i would rather him not be here, that being said I admit he seems to pick out a decent player, but for every Bassong there is a Harry Kane IMO. I also hate the way he continually praises the clubs we play against and not us. I think it was the players who decided it was time to play that way yesterday rather than Hughton. If Hughton really wanted to play open attacking football i have a feeling we would of started with two forwards. However yesterday was the best we have played for a full 90 all season. His statement afterward about not expecting that every week is another reason i don''t think he liked how freely we played. Having kept us up he will be here next season no doubt in my mind about that. however if after another transfer window we play the first two months of the season like we did since Christmas he will have to go.[/quote]

If he really said that then he is not the man for the job long-term. I''d try to get a man of the ilk of Martinez or Lambert that tries to win every game. We don''t expect to get a point every game but we want to be in with a chance.  Around 13 wins gets safety in the Prem as opposed to 38 draws and I know what I prefer   !!!!  
[/quote]

Why do people keep on mentioning him? Relegation battle very season and finally succeeding in taking his team down. Is that grass really so much greener? Just engage brain for a minute and think about it.

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