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ricardo

On the Beach, Off the Beach

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A few weeks ago Swansea came down here and according to some people we couldn''t beat a team who were already "on the beach". Yet strangely a couple of games later Swansea beat Wigan in a pulsating game and so must have come back "off the beach". However yesterday they lost 0-3 to Fulham so must have gone back to the beach.WBA came to CR already "on the beach" therefore didn''t care that we beat them 4-0. Yesterday they come back with 3 goals in 9 minutes against the Champions so must have come back "off the beach".City win 3-2 at the Etihad, obviously the opposition were alreadt "on the beach".Does anyone seriously believe this on/off the beach nonsense, especially when millions of pounds are riding on league position?

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Agree to an extent Ricardo. However Citeh did not have league places nor associated money at stake yesterday. I would like to think we would also have won had they been battling for the title or a Champions league place but to be honest I''d have a tough job convincing myself.

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It doesnt bother me in the slightest. They still had £250m worth of talent on the field today and in a way we were safe and could have been ''on the beach'' but we had a right go and were hungrier than them.

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Absolutely - to say a team are on the beach and therefore easy to beat is simplistic. Results can go different ways at this point depending on the particular circumstances of the team and individuals within it

Yesterday it was clear their players would rather not have has to play . But neither did they want to lose. Players like Toure are world class and its a great achievement to win there any time

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The ''On the beach'' thing is a myth used when any team loses badly at the end of the season.

Similar to the ''Cup run affected league position'' myth.

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Agree. It is a phrase that was trotted out by someone (probably a MOTD pundit) which everyone jumps on to follow because it makes them sound as if they not what they''re talking about. Pretty pathetic really and in the same camp as "decisions level themselves out over a season".

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I think quite a few posters from here must have been on the beach since the West Brom game. I wonder if successes are so sweet after you''ve thrown your toys out of the pram? For most of us the bad times are what make the good times so sweet!

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="ricardo"]A few weeks ago Swansea came down here and according to some people we couldn''t beat a team who were already "on the beach". Yet strangely a couple of games later Swansea beat Wigan in a pulsating game and so must have come back "off the beach". However yesterday they lost 0-3 to Fulham so must have gone back to the beach.WBA came to CR already "on the beach" therefore didn''t care that we beat them 4-0. Yesterday they come back with 3 goals in 9 minutes against the Champions so must have come back "off the beach".City win 3-2 at the Etihad, obviously the opposition were alreadt "on the beach".Does anyone seriously believe this on/off the beach nonsense, especially when millions of pounds are riding on league position?[/quote]

 

ricardo, I think there are times when it is a factor and times when it isn''t. That performance from WBA was the most abject and uninterested I can ever remember seeing from a team in the top flight at Carrow Road. Can you think of a more pathetic display from an away team over those 40 years?I can''t believe WBA would have played like that if they had been either at the top vying for a European place or, like us, desperate for points in a relegation dogfight. That has to have been  factor in why they were so listless. As to why they played better against Man Utd, perhaps their pride had been wounded, and Clarke had read them the riot act. And it was in front of ther own fans.

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But every season every team plays these games. It''s not suddenly just us this season. I think you could balance it out with the games we played when other sides really needed points badly. Every season in every league a clubs finishing position is decided by results during the whole season in varying sets of circumstances.

 

 

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Spot on Nutty. When I saw the fixture list with the last game against the then Champions, my thoughts were this could be very good or very bad, depending on our respective situations at the time. As it worked out, circumstances were in our favour. Man City weren''t on the beach but they certainly weren''t geared up for a massive performance. Let''s enjoy it.

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I think it can change the intensity of the performance, there is no urgent need to get that goal which can obviously effect things. It''s still not easy to win a football match though and I read a statistic a couple of years ago that showed that actually teams with nothing to play for beat teams with lots to play for about the same as teams with things to play for win, as it can also relax the players and allow them to play their natural game.

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Being on the beach is often not all it''s cracked up to be. At this time in my life all I want is a nice pleasant spot where I can watch the young girls in their bikinis stroll by ( no running please....my eyes blur easily ) but still be far enough removed from the action so those pesky kids aren''t kicking sand in my face. The beach umbrella is in place should I require it, the sun is ever ready should I require its warm rays, the wife has a good book so I don''t have to respond to incessant chatter. If someone tells me I have a point or two I need to make then I close my eyes and pretend I didn''t even hear them. When the stars are lined up perfectly things can work out just fine. When people start to step on me, however, disturbing this tranquility I have worked so hard for all my life, I''m prepared to put up a fight. 

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="ricardo"]A few weeks ago Swansea came down here and according to some people we couldn''t beat a team who were already "on the beach". Yet strangely a couple of games later Swansea beat Wigan in a pulsating game and so must have come back "off the beach". However yesterday they lost 0-3 to Fulham so must have gone back to the beach.WBA came to CR already "on the beach" therefore didn''t care that we beat them 4-0. Yesterday they come back with 3 goals in 9 minutes against the Champions so must have come back "off the beach".City win 3-2 at the Etihad, obviously the opposition were alreadt "on the beach".Does anyone seriously believe this on/off the beach nonsense, especially when millions of pounds are riding on league position?[/quote]

 

ricardo, I think there are times when it is a factor and times when it isn''t. That performance from WBA was the most abject and uninterested I can ever remember seeing from a team in the top flight at Carrow Road. Can you think of a more pathetic display from an away team over those 40 years?I can''t believe WBA would have played like that if they had been either at the top vying for a European place or, like us, desperate for points in a relegation dogfight. That has to have been  factor in why they were so listless. As to why they played better against Man Utd, perhaps their pride had been wounded, and Clarke had read them the riot act. And it was in front of ther own fans.

[/quote]

............ and the occasion was "massive" (copyright Lambert)

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We could argue about the influence of the fixture list until the cows come home. What about those fixtures where a team has a big cup game (even a final) as the next game - does that affect the team selection and / or the motivation of the players. Or what about a team that has just played a game in the far reaches of Eastern Europe mid-week and then has to go away to play in the Prem - are they more likely to get beaten (Mr Wenger seems to think so, for one). There are lots of accidental factors which affect results - injury to key players at crucial times, a ''flu bug decimating the team etc - and in a league where the margins are so slim between success and failure, especially in that mid/lower end of the table, that these can have a significant effect on the position short and long-term. The end of season games are just one element in the lottery. They rarely turn out how they look at the beginning of the season. Most teams - and certainly most players - will have something to play for right up to the end (if only to influence what happens next season). There are exceptions but the majority will not be on any beach - and if they are, it''s only one random element in a season full of random influences on games. To succeed you need to be good - and lucky.

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Well said Ricardo! I think we all know that it''s people (for some weird reason) making up anything they can to undermine the achievements of the team they claim to support. Goodness knows why though!?

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="ricardo"]A few weeks ago Swansea came down here and according to some people we couldn''t beat a team who were already "on the beach". Yet strangely a couple of games later Swansea beat Wigan in a pulsating game and so must have come back "off the beach". However yesterday they lost 0-3 to Fulham so must have gone back to the beach.WBA came to CR already "on the beach" therefore didn''t care that we beat them 4-0. Yesterday they come back with 3 goals in 9 minutes against the Champions so must have come back "off the beach".City win 3-2 at the Etihad, obviously the opposition were alreadt "on the beach".Does anyone seriously believe this on/off the beach nonsense, especially when millions of pounds are riding on league position?[/quote]

 

ricardo, I think there are times when it is a factor and times when it isn''t. That performance from WBA was the most abject and uninterested I can ever remember seeing from a team in the top flight at Carrow Road. Can you think of a more pathetic display from an away team over those 40 years?I can''t believe WBA would have played like that if they had been either at the top vying for a European place or, like us, desperate for points in a relegation dogfight. That has to have been  factor in why they were so listless. As to why they played better against Man Utd, perhaps their pride had been wounded, and Clarke had read them the riot act. And it was in front of ther own fans.

[/quote]

Seriously?! WBA were the worst away team you''ve ever seen at CR??!! I can remember countless worse performances by visiting teams.

And then they magically decided to turn it on because of wounded pride to pull back 3 goals against the champions?! Why can''t you just accept that we confounded expectations and pulled two unexpected results out of the bag to finish very comfortably in mid-table?

And, no, I''m not complacent about next season, I just can''t see why every time we achieve something it is always because opposition was crap/ they have nothing to play for/ other teams helped us out/ opposition team weakened through injury/ other teams having runs of bad luck or fixture congestion etc etc ad nauseum 

  

 

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Very interesting. Don''t forget that WBA were on the beach when they went to Southampton who still needed points and beat them 0-3. And was it not Leicester who were on the beach in the early 80s and sent us down when we needed a win? And Leeds in ''95? And the most famous one in City history when we went to a Fulham team so obviously "on the beach" that they beat us 6-0.

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We can only beat the 11 players in front of us and due to the right approach we deservedly got 6 points and 7 goals from these two games.

 

But I do agree that WBA were extremely poor (maybe not the worst team seen here but defintely lacking in every department and nowhere near the team that has got them a deserved top half finish) and citeh were at best lack lustre.     I suspect we would have had more difficult games had there been more to play for.  

 

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

We can only beat the 11 players in front of us and due to the right approach we deservedly got 6 points and 7 goals from these two games.

 

But I do agree that WBA were extremely poor (maybe not the worst team seen here but defintely lacking in every department and nowhere near the team that has got them a deserved top half finish) and citeh were at best lack lustre.     I suspect we would have had more difficult games had there been more to play for.  

 

[/quote]

Point taken ZLF - just seems as though some people are really loathed to give us any credit at all. For what it''s worth, I think that we could have beaten West Brom at home even if they weren''t ''on the beach''. I genuinely think we could and very likely would have.  

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[quote user="macdougalls perm"]

 

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="ricardo"]A few weeks ago Swansea came down here and according to some people we couldn''t beat a team who were already "on the beach". Yet strangely a couple of games later Swansea beat Wigan in a pulsating game and so must have come back "off the beach". However yesterday they lost 0-3 to Fulham so must have gone back to the beach.WBA came to CR already "on the beach" therefore didn''t care that we beat them 4-0. Yesterday they come back with 3 goals in 9 minutes against the Champions so must have come back "off the beach".City win 3-2 at the Etihad, obviously the opposition were alreadt "on the beach".Does anyone seriously believe this on/off the beach nonsense, especially when millions of pounds are riding on league position?[/quote]

 

ricardo, I think there are times when it is a factor and times when it isn''t. That performance from WBA was the most abject and uninterested I can ever remember seeing from a team in the top flight at Carrow Road. Can you think of a more pathetic display from an away team over those 40 years?I can''t believe WBA would have played like that if they had been either at the top vying for a European place or, like us, desperate for points in a relegation dogfight. That has to have been  factor in why they were so listless. As to why they played better against Man Utd, perhaps their pride had been wounded, and Clarke had read them the riot act. And it was in front of ther own fans.

[/quote]

Seriously?! WBA were the worst away team you''ve ever seen at CR??!! I can remember countless worse performances by visiting teams.

And then they magically decided to turn it on because of wounded pride to pull back 3 goals against the champions?! Why can''t you just accept that we confounded expectations and pulled two unexpected results out of the bag to finish very comfortably in mid-table?

And, no, I''m not complacent about next season, I just can''t see why every time we achieve something it is always because opposition was crap/ they have nothing to play for/ other teams helped us out/ opposition team weakened through injury/ other teams having runs of bad luck or fixture congestion etc etc ad nauseum 

  

 

[/quote]

 

As it happens I didn''t say "worst". I said WBA were abject, uninterested and listless, which is not quite the same thing. Villa in the last game last season were hopeless, but they tried a bit. It didn''t seem to me that WBA were trying at all, and their manager and players afterwards aplogised for the performance. Even so I would be interested to see your list of "countless" even worse performances by a team at Carrow Road in the top flight.As to the idea that I am trying to downplay our achievement this season, that is nonsense. Apart from anything else I didn''t mention the Man City game!

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These are your exact words:

''Can you think of a more pathetic display from an away team over those 40 years''

Fair enough, I didn''t see that you had specified ''top-flight'' in the previous line, confused by your ''over those 40 years'' line - thought you meant any team - apologies :-) 

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[quote user="macdougalls perm"]

These are your exact words:

''Can you think of a more pathetic display from an away team over those 40 years''

Fair enough, I didn''t see that you had specified ''top-flight'' in the previous line, confused by your ''over those 40 years'' line - thought you meant any team - apologies :-) 

[/quote]

 

We beat Scunthorpe 6-0 in the Championship and they were awful, but even so I think they tried harder than WBA did! Let''s leave it there.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="macdougalls perm"]

These are your exact words:

''Can you think of a more pathetic display from an away team over those 40 years''

Fair enough, I didn''t see that you had specified ''top-flight'' in the previous line, confused by your ''over those 40 years'' line - thought you meant any team - apologies :-) 

[/quote]

 

We beat Scunthorpe 6-0 in the Championship and they were awful, but even so I think they tried harder than WBA did! Let''s leave it there.

[/quote]

 

Walsall with Merson also springs to mind :-) 

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[quote user="macdougalls perm"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="macdougalls perm"]

These are your exact words:

''Can you think of a more pathetic display from an away team over those 40 years''

Fair enough, I didn''t see that you had specified ''top-flight'' in the previous line, confused by your ''over those 40 years'' line - thought you meant any team - apologies :-) 

[/quote]

 

We beat Scunthorpe 6-0 in the Championship and they were awful, but even so I think they tried harder than WBA did! Let''s leave it there.

[/quote]

 

Walsall with Merson also springs to mind :-) 

[/quote]

 

Wasn''t that his first match as manager?

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[quote user="Sons of Boadicea"]

Ricardo, the rules are very simple, they are:

Norwich City = Crap

Chris Hughton = Crap

Delia Smith = Crap

Norwich City Board = Crap

Anybody Norwich City Beat = Crap/On the Berach/Off day/Lucky

 

[/quote]Yep, thats pretty much spot on.Some people only get enjoyment out of knocking the club and it''s acheivements. There have been some poor City teams and some poor seasons over the years but this certainly isn''t one of them.

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Definitely true of some on here.

 

Returning to teams "on the beach", didn''t Watford play Leeds in the final game of the regular season needing a win to avoid the play-offs and Leeds, despite being safely in mid-table, won it at the end instead ?

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