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Redders Right Foot

Jeff on canary call

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[quote user="alartz"]Apart from saying ''I know someone in the club'' part. That was completely wrong But, I think he''s 100% right. And if the last 2 results were different. You''d all be saying the same thing.[/quote]

And if my auntie had testicles, she''d be my uncle.

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"yet there are still some who want him sacked."

some ?''Jeff'' on Canary Call ..... and err

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Why can''t we get straight in our heads this idea that a "good run" and a "bad run" is mostly just a clustering of results. There is an element of luck in how the fixture list pans out too, if Citeh still needed a win today for the title would we have won that game? Not very likely!

In reality we have ended the season about where we hoped we would, with points in the mid 40s and , almost, a top 10 finish. Lets rejoice.

The fact that at home our record is immense, away is frankly poor, that we finished above Villa, and Fulham after that terrible first Day defeat, is all largely irrelevant. We have consolidated where at the start of the season most of us hoped we would belong, mid table. And finally on Hughton, how do fundamentally negative managers win the Championship with 102 points, 11 clear of second? (Talking of which we finished above them too!)

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[quote user="Webbo118"]

[quote user="alartz"]Apart from saying ''I know someone in the club'' part. That was completely wrong But, I think he''s 100% right. And if the last 2 results were different. You''d all be saying the same thing.[/quote]

And if my auntie had testicles, she''d be my uncle.

[/quote]Given the part of Norfolk you reside in that is not unlikely

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[quote user="City1st"][quote user="Webbo118"]

[quote user="alartz"]Apart from saying ''I know someone in the club'' part. That was completely wrong But, I think he''s 100% right. And if the last 2 results were different. You''d all be saying the same thing.[/quote]

And if my auntie had testicles, she''d be my uncle.

[/quote]

Given the part of Norfolk you reside in that is not unlikely






[/quote]

Cheap jibe from a cheap poster. Clown!

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One thing is clear; since losing to Villa, our defensive approach has gone out the window; we''ve scored seven in two; Holt''s scored two in two; Howson''s scored two in two; we''ve won two in two.

It doesn''t take a genius to work out that Hughton has had a rocket up his arse, and rightly so.

I like Hughton but his post-Xmas performance has been awful. I trust he''s learned something this season and reviews his back room team.

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[quote user="Kingston Yellow"]One thing is clear; since losing to Villa, our defensive approach has gone out the window; we''ve scored seven in two; Holt''s scored two in two; Howson''s scored two in two; we''ve won two in two. It doesn''t take a genius to work out that Hughton has had a rocket up his arse, and rightly so. I like Hughton but his post-Xmas performance has been awful. I trust he''s learned something this season and reviews his back room team.[/quote]

Perhaps you could get in touch and give him some advice.

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[quote user="City1st"]I can only comment on the posts on here as i did not listen to Canary Call, but it would be foolish to dimiss all of Jeffs claims - albeit I would think they are second hand (at best) rather than some contact at the club.There was some sort of ''turning point'' before the WBA game and what I heard has merely been confirmed elswhere by someone I trust, when talking about such matters. I have no idea what has been said by the board and have not heard anything that has been attributed to any board members, however it does appear that quite a few players have been unhappy for somewhile with the tactics on matchdays and this came to a head with the position the team were in after the Villa game.I doubt very much that Chris Hughton would have done a complete about face with regard to tactics before that game, as that would have been an admittance of ''failure, so maybe it was just the players deciding to take matters into their own hands. There''s not much else I can say bar that this seems to have reached certain quarters of the media, which might explain the appearance of Holt on Talkshite, the release of details of the teams bonuses (something never done before) and maybe the way Hughton was picked out today just after we scored to show a face showing no emotion whatsoever. Whether more comes out, who can know ? The club is normally good at keeping a lid on these sort of things, but certainly someone/persons is/are briefing the media. Maybe if we knew why then things might be a bit clearer.Interesting days ahead methinks

ps to clarify I am not calling for Hughton to be sacked, nor would I want Poyet, Poyet/Phelan appointed either[/quote]

Pretty much how I see it.

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[quote user="Webbo118"]

[quote user="Kingston Yellow"]One thing is clear; since losing to Villa, our defensive approach has gone out the window; we''ve scored seven in two; Holt''s scored two in two; Howson''s scored two in two; we''ve won two in two. It doesn''t take a genius to work out that Hughton has had a rocket up his arse, and rightly so. I like Hughton but his post-Xmas performance has been awful. I trust he''s learned something this season and reviews his back room team.[/quote]

Perhaps you could get in touch and give him some advice.

[/quote]

That''s not my job. It''s McNally''s. And McNally''s done his job. As per usual.

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[quote user="Webbo118"][quote user="City1st"][quote user="Webbo118"]

[quote user="alartz"]Apart from saying ''I know someone in the club'' part. That was completely wrong But, I think he''s 100% right. And if the last 2 results were different. You''d all be saying the same thing.[/quote]

And if my auntie had testicles, she''d be my uncle.

[/quote]Given the part of Norfolk you reside in that is not unlikely

[/quote]

Cheap jibe from a cheap poster. Clown!

[/quote]I wouldn''t call it cheap, you can get paid fr taht sort of stuff you know the right people, so I have been toldthough not for -"Are you Jeff in disguise?"which has minimal comedic value

unlike yourself

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The last two games have only confirmed my belief that now would be a good time to thank Hughton for his services and to find someone else to take us forward.  He has had this team at his disposal all season but has not been able to set up his tactics to make full use of his resources, especially this side of Christmas.  Yes we''ve had two great results against WBA and Man City, but I''m much more concerned about how we performed against the likes of Aston Villa, Southampton, Stoke, Wigan etc. etc.

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"The last two games have only confirmed my belief that now would be a good time to thank Hughton for his services and to find someone else to take us forward.  He has had this team at his disposal all season but has not been able to set up his tactics to make full use of his resources, especially this side of Christmas.  Yes we''ve had two great results against WBA and Man City, but I''m much more concerned about how we performed against the likes of Aston Villa, Southampton, Stoke, Wigan etc. etc."

ROFL you couldn''t make it up!

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Although not a regular poster, I would like to think that the posts I have put on here are never outlandish or tarnished with a perceived motive as some are... However I do genuinely believe that there are forces beyond those of just Hughton at work in the recent change in our form.If anyone attended the away supporters party they may have overheard a conversation where McNally openly admitted that the style of play was not impressing, be this on a personal level with regards to his enjoyment of football or with regards the objectives of the club (which we have undeniably achieved... eventually) who knows.Further to this, I refuse to believe that the cancellation of the POTS dinner and awarding of the POTS award away from the fans were solely at the discretion of Hughton too. I cannot believe that if this did in some way include someone from above Hughton in the decision process that the conversation was left at "We are underachieving with regards to our safety within the league, WE are cancelling the celebrations but you continue to operate and coach the football side in the way you have"The murmurings from the players, Holt on Sky and Talk-sport openly commenting on the change in mentality and the affect on the team. Bassongs interview on the BPL website... Etc.For me, too much going on, coming out and swing in form to not believe that something drastic has occurred, what it means for Hughton and the rest of his team/certain players I don''t know. Hopefully it was a frank performance evaluation and all concerned have learnt a little and will move on better for the experience.

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No comedy element intended. Merely illustrating the futile nonsense of "ifs". If we had lost the 3 games we won against Manure, Citeh and Arsenal, we would have been relegated. On the other hand, if we had beaten, home and away, all the teams who finished below us in the table, we would be in the Champions League next season. If you didn''t give every indication of being a binner ............

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"Why can''t we get straight in our heads this idea that a "good run" and a "bad run" is mostly just a clustering of results. There is an element of luck in how the fixture list pans out too, if Citeh still needed a win today for the title would we have won that game? Not very likely!"

No, but then if they were challenging for the title still they would not have sacked Mancini. That said, usually players tend to up their performance the game after their managers sacking to prove that they want to remain at the club and to give a reason for them to be first choice.

Look at it that way and the performances of some players is quite inexplicable. Tevez, Aguero and a couple of others have made sounds about leaving. But lets not forget, despite them not being on song today, we absolutely had to be and despite being pulled back twice managed to score and win - a large part of that due to some well organised defending at the back for the last 15 odd mins.

The chap on canary call appeared to love the sound of his own voice more than anything else. The more time he was given to speak the more dross he spouted out.

Some hypocrisy on this thread too. He is allowed to have his opinion but should not be criticised by others if they do not agree? Would that not be he can have his opinion but others denied theirs?

I can imagine that perhaps a message was sent to Hughton a few weeks ago, stating that our performances were not acceptable as they were drawing us worryingly close to relegation.

However, our performances had improved, even the Villa game represented a better overall performance than previous games - so it doesn''t really fit with what Jeff said.

Lastly, my opinion on this is that this season at least ten teams were involved in a relegation dog-fight until the last handful of games or so.

Swansea in 9th finished with two more points, ten points off 17th placed Wigan.

Of the teams placed 12th-16th (6 teams), how many of those will be looking to sack their manager?

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To be honest you need the occasional idiot on Canary Call just to bring your own opinion into perspective... just so you realise how well our club is run and also how stupid getting rid of Hughton now seems, hopefull those on the fence will now see actually its a bad idea for now. Now im not for one second saying that he has been outstanding, but yeah grand scheme of things, 11th place... Id tear your arm off 2 weeks and 12 months ago! Next season we judge him on next season.

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UNBELIEVABLE............................................................................................................................................................JEFF

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[quote user="QHcanary"]"The last two games have only confirmed my belief that now would be a good time to thank Hughton for his services and to find someone else to take us forward.  He has had this team at his disposal all season but has not been able to set up his tactics to make full use of his resources, especially this side of Christmas.  Yes we''ve had two great results against WBA and Man City, but I''m much more concerned about how we performed against the likes of Aston Villa, Southampton, Stoke, Wigan etc. etc."

ROFL you couldn''t make it up![/quote]Not really as outlandish as it sounds.The football since Christmas has been pretty abysmal. Most on here were crying out for a change of tactics for months which only really came about this month when we got ourselves out of jail with the WBA win. Today was nice icing on the cake but the two games would have been much tighter had the opposition had anything to play for.That said I don''t agree that this would be a good time to part with Chris Hughton. Although the football was pretty horrible he achieved his objective for the season and must be given a chance to progress next term.That said I suspect that the Board have made it known that they didn''t appreciate our style of football and are looking for a big improvement. They''ll not be expecting a WBA/Man City performance every week but they won''t tolerate the dross we had to put up for more weeks than I care to remember for long.

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So, after reading this thread have I got it right.

If the team cocks up Hughton got it wrong.

If the team plays well it was nothing to do with Hughton.

Am I right?

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"]So, after reading this thread have I got it right.

If the team cocks up Hughton got it wrong.

If the team plays well it was nothing to do with Hughton.

Am I right?[/quote]Almost.  If the team cocks up Hughton got it wrong.If the team plays well, it''s against Hughton''s orders.  Hughton still got it wrong.  The players decided to mutiny.

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[quote user="JayNCFC"]Although not a regular poster, I would like to think that the posts I have put on here are never outlandish or tarnished with a perceived motive as some are... However I do genuinely believe that there are forces beyond those of just Hughton at work in the recent change in our form.If anyone attended the away supporters party they may have overheard a conversation where McNally openly admitted that the style of play was not impressing, be this on a personal level with regards to his enjoyment of football or with regards the objectives of the club (which we have undeniably achieved... eventually) who knows.Further to this, I refuse to believe that the cancellation of the POTS dinner and awarding of the POTS award away from the fans were solely at the discretion of Hughton too. I cannot believe that if this did in some way include someone from above Hughton in the decision process that the conversation was left at "We are underachieving with regards to our safety within the league, WE are cancelling the celebrations but you continue to operate and coach the football side in the way you have"The murmurings from the players, Holt on Sky and Talk-sport openly commenting on the change in mentality and the affect on the team. Bassongs interview on the BPL website... Etc.For me, too much going on, coming out and swing in form to not believe that something drastic has occurred, what it means for Hughton and the rest of his team/certain players I don''t know. Hopefully it was a frank performance evaluation and all concerned have learnt a little and will move on better for the experience.[/quote]

I entirely accept that McNally said that. Why wouldn''t he? I doubt anyone thinks we''ve played well in some matches.

The reason Jeff cannot be right is that he says this happened after the Villa game.

But, theoutfield team, tactics and attitude of the team were identical in the two games. Villa and especially Agbonlahor were too quick for us. So the proposition that there was a change of heart or policy after the Villa game is factually rubbish.

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[quote user="Matt Juler"]The last two games have only confirmed my belief that now would be a good time to thank Hughton for his services and to find someone else to take us forward.  He has had this team at his disposal all season but has not been able to set up his tactics to make full use of his resources, especially this side of Christmas.  Yes we''ve had two great results against WBA and Man City, but I''m much more concerned about how we performed against the likes of Aston Villa, Southampton, Stoke, Wigan etc. etc.[/quote]Sorry but you are clueless, if we were to have beaten those above mentioned teams like you suggested we should have, we would be pushing top 4..... a quick summary of those above teams as wellVilla - Spent a good £100m + over the last few years on that squadSouthampton - Again spent a lot of money and are currently operating with a £22m + strikeforceStoke - 3rd highest spenders in the premier league (Net spends)Wigan - Probably spent the same as us, they got relegated, we didn''t......The team we put out for most of this season cost us in the region of £12m, pretty much all premiership clubs have players that cost more than that, so please tell me, why should we be beating anybody? and why should we have a god given right to improve year on year and finish higher than last season? (Which we did by the way....)This is simply the time to admit you were wrong, Hughton had a target, and that was to stay up. We have had a lot of success at this football club over the last few years, the success rate has to slow down at some point, I think you need to lower your expectations or support United

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[quote user="ellis206"]Sorry but you are clueless, if we were to have beaten those above mentioned teams like you suggested we should have, we would be pushing top 4..... a quick summary of those above teams as wellVilla - Spent a good £100m + over the last few years on that squadSouthampton - Again spent a lot of money and are currently operating with a £22m + strikeforceStoke - 3rd highest spenders in the premier league (Net spends)Wigan - Probably spent the same as us, they got relegated, we didn''t......The team we put out for most of this season cost us in the region of £12m, pretty much all premiership clubs have players that cost more than that, so please tell me, why should we be beating anybody? and why should we have a god given right to improve year on year and finish higher than last season? (Which we did by the way....)This is simply the time to admit you were wrong, Hughton had a target, and that was to stay up. We have had a lot of success at this football club over the last few years, the success rate has to slow down at some point, I think you need to lower your expectations or support United[/quote]You can call me clueless or any other insult that you deem fit, but in my view he''s not the correct man for Norwich City Football Club.  You can''t hide the fact that 8 days ago we were staring relegation in the eye, these two games can''t mask what has been an appalling second half of the season.  Had we of approached the many winnable games earlier in the season with this same mentality there''s a good chance we''d have been safe many weeks ago.

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"]So, after reading this thread have I got it right.

If the team cocks up Hughton got it wrong.

If the team plays well it was nothing to do with Hughton.

Am I right?[/quote]

If the team plays well, attacking , win or lose, all take the credit if the display was good.  If the display was poor and we lose, all take criticism. If we play defensive dross and we lose or bore-draw Hughton will always get slaughtered, as has been happening most of the season.  Seems fair to me.  Hughton needs to learn that we don''t mind losing a few games as long as we played well and entertained. No team wins every game and we only need  13 wins to survive even if we get no other points.  Give me 38 attempts to win games rather than 38 attempts to get draws.  With our quality I''ve no doubt we can get those 13 wins every season, and we may even get more than we expect !!!

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"You can call me clueless or any other insult that you deem fit, but in my view he''s not the correct man for Norwich City Football Club. You can''t hide the fact that 8 days ago we were staring relegation in the eye, these two games can''t mask what has been an appalling second half of the season. Had we of approached the many winnable games earlier in the season with this same mentality there''s a good chance we''d have been safe many weeks ago."

Is anyone saying those 2 games have masked an appalling 2nd half of the season? We all know massive improvements need to be made, not least Hughton himself who has admitted so in numerous interviews but why oh why do you think we should sack someone who has improved on our finishing position?

The key for me is the potential there is in the squad and the possible, very exciting improvements from the acquisition of players like RVW that will come in over the summer. Like it or not, Hughton has shown this squad can play good solid football across the pitch and has improved the area the second coming never could. He''s now already shown a sign of intent in improving the other weaknesses so if he has as much success with our attack (we know from the past his teams can attack well) as he had in improving our defence, we''re in for some good times ahead.

How can he be denied the opportunity to do this, he''s earned it from his one aim for this season - keep us up.

If, and its a massive if, there''s any issues behind the scenes, I trust McNally to deal with it promptly and in the correct way (al la the Gunn situation).

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[quote user="Matt Juler"][quote user="ellis206"]
Sorry but you are clueless, if we were to have beaten those above mentioned teams like you suggested we should have, we would be pushing top 4..... a quick summary of those above teams as well

Villa - Spent a good £100m + over the last few years on that squad
Southampton - Again spent a lot of money and are currently operating with a £22m + strikeforce
Stoke - 3rd highest spenders in the premier league (Net spends)
Wigan - Probably spent the same as us, they got relegated, we didn''t......

The team we put out for most of this season cost us in the region of £12m, pretty much all premiership clubs have players that cost more than that, so please tell me, why should we be beating anybody? and why should we have a god given right to improve year on year and finish higher than last season? (Which we did by the way....)
This is simply the time to admit you were wrong, Hughton had a target, and that was to stay up. We have had a lot of success at this football club over the last few years, the success rate has to slow down at some point, I think you need to lower your expectations or support United
[/quote]You can call me clueless or any other insult that you deem fit, but in my view he''s not the correct man for Norwich City Football Club.  You can''t hide the fact that 8 days ago we were staring relegation in the eye, these two games can''t mask what has been an appalling second half of the season.  Had we of approached the many winnable games earlier in the season with this same mentality there''s a good chance we''d have been safe many weeks ago.
[/quote]

 

Well I''ll argue it. We have bnever been that close tro relegation. The only way we stared it in the eye was when our own fans made up ridiculous scenarios about our results and results elsewhere. The fact is that if we''d have picked up just one point in our final six games we wouldn''t have been relegated.

 

I agree this forum should be made up of contrasting views for it to serve any purpose but can''t for the life of me understand why supposed City fans would make stuff up to paint a bleaker picture than actually exists.

 

 

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Come on Nutty. Rather disingenuous. Being a fan can sometimes be about fear as much as optimism. I always said it was unlikely we would go down but around the beginning of the month, I became somewhat less comfortable in my view. My love of the club led to my pants becoming a little damp at that time but I wouldn''t say I, nor many others, were making stuff up to paint a bleak picture. By the time we got to the end of the Villa game, it did not take a ''ridiculous scenario'' to envisage us slipping through the trapdoor. We turned things around with some gusto in the end and this is something to be proud of and in the end that is all that matters.

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