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The ghost of Michael Theoklitos

Hypothetical question number three - Stadium capacity increase

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I think what is of more interest is the possibility of Standing Areas being introduced - there seems to be a bit of a groundswell (ha ha - appropriate choice of words!) on this subject.

 

It has been successfully deployed in the Bundesliga and would really be keen to see it introduced back here - my only question would be, "Where?"

 

Further info here: http://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/

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The question of what to do with the season ticket holders in the City Stand should we redevelop it has already been answered.

If the Club do decide to increase the capacity they will do so by replacing the City Stand. What they will do is knock down half of it and build that end of the new stand first. Meanwhile they will keep the other (old) end of the City Stand open. This means that they will only have to relocate 2,000 season ticket holders - which they can just about do by distributing them around the other stands.

This will take about a season, by which time half of the new stand will be completed. This half of the new stand will be big enough the following season to accommodate all 4,000 City Stand season ticket holders. Simples.

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I love all this well I''ve heard the club are gonna do this that or the other!!!

McNally stated in the last STAFF meeting that there will be no ground improvements/increased capacity at the moment as all additional monies will be put into the playing squad! The poster who said the bank refused a loan, so sorry m8 u are so wide of the mark!!! My source, someone who works at carrow road, if u want to know who, my previous posts have explained that!

 

OTBC!!!!!

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[quote user="mr lister"]

I love all this well I''ve heard the club are gonna do this that or the other!!!

McNally stated in the last STAFF meeting that there will be no ground improvements/increased capacity at the moment as all additional monies will be put into the playing squad! The poster who said the bank refused a loan, so sorry m8 u are so wide of the mark!!! My source, someone who works at carrow road, if u want to know who, my previous posts have explained that!

 

OTBC!!!!!

[/quote]We don''t need to know your source. McNally and Bowkett told us at the AGM in November that nobody was interested in underwriting the cost of Stadium expansion. It''s been common knowledge for months, tell us something we don''t know.

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I love all this well I''ve heard the club are gonna do this that or the other!!!

McNally stated in the last STAFF meeting that there will be no ground improvements/increased capacity at the moment as all additional monies will be put into the playing squad! The poster who said the bank refused a loan, so sorry m8 u are so wide of the mark!!! My source, someone who works at carrow road, if u want to know who, my previous posts have explained that!

OTBC!!!!!

--------------------------

he''s one of the sport psychologists, right? ;)

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I was 100% for increasing the capacity, but after a good debate with morty on here...

I have changed my opinion, that in reality the extra seats aren''t going to dramatically increase the turnover. However, it would be nice to have a 30k+ stadium, sounds so much more impressive...

Only spending on players, is going to keep our turnover at 100m+.

Alternatively, I would love the Barclay to be terraced again. If the Germans can, then sure we should be allowed...

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I thought that McNally had said that they would look at this after 3 years in the prem. Now it is the 3rd year so presumably they will look at it soon. I think much depends on this year. the last two have been about staying up. If we can show that we are a credible mid table team and not plunging towards the bottom it may give them confidence to spend the cash. Frankly, relocating the City stand folks should not be a big issue- use the casual seats dotted around the ground (2.5K or so?), restrict away supporters a bit, temp stand in front of the hotel or just don''t offer tickets there for a season, the club probably has no obligation to actually offer any space at all if it doesn''t want to. It would not be for a whole season either if timed right and some would definitely complain but would hopefully see the long term benefit, perhaps with a free season ticket for the first year after opening.

 

The City stand has been a joke since it went up, like a League 1 stand. Big miscalculation at the time, and it looks worse on TV as that is where the cameras point. A second tier on that with another 3-3.5K supporters would do nicely, look better, generate a bit more noise, appear a little more intimidating and from an emotional perspective it would be great to join the 30K+ club rather than be one of a host of teams in the mid to high 20s.

 

One final thought. Realistically are we going to be paying multi millions for players on a regular basis? With the associated wages? I doubt it. An RVW here or there but I simply can''t see us under present management paying silly money on a regular basis. We could easily end up like a QPR with a bunch of high transfer fee high earning prima donnas with no affiliation for the club. That is not the McNally model. So £46m this year and a minimum of £60m next year should be ample to allow some cash to be set aside for the stadium, maybe 50% cash, 50% long term bank loan.

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"I have changed my opinion, that in reality the extra seats aren''t going to dramatically increase the turnover."they

will actually decrease the overall take - a simple calculation based on

present income from tickets gives around £400 ps = £1.6m (4000 seats)

against £2.5m-£3.5m annual cost - that is 100%and current ticket prices ....... a loss/subsidy

"use the casual seats dotted around the ground (2.5K or so?
you are kidding, aren''t you - that will ony happen by moving the MainStand en bloc and dotting the displaced elsewhere, breaking up family groups .... ?

"restrict away supporters a bit, temp stand in front of the hotel"secure access to toilets etc ... can''t be done"just don''t offer tickets there for a season, the club probably has no

obligation to actually offer any space at all if it doesn''t want to
"it does, that whether that can be reduced far more than the lower capacity would demand is a moot point - again where are they to go ?

"should be ample to allow some cash to be set aside for the stadium, maybe 50% cash, 50% long term bank loan.

"

"the City stand ......... A second tier on that with another 3-3.5K

supporters"
eh ? It cannot be built upon, it would need to be completely demolished

"but I simply can''t see us under present management paying silly money on a regular basis"  or  "We could easily end up like a QPR with a bunch of high transfer fee high earning prima donnas with no affiliation for the club" ....... what !"should be ample to allow some cash to be set aside for the stadium, maybe 50% cash, 50% long term bank loan"which would mean taking a massive amount from the playing budget for the cash amount which might be at the expense of PL status ...... where then paying the loan on a Championship budget ?

Until the practicalities and cost of any redevelopment are sensibly addressed this project will remain on hold as I think that when it is as blunt as playing budget or subsidising new fans then it always going to be a no brainer.

ps before the usual trolls over excite themselves and start squeaking let me reiterate what I have said many times before .... I would love there to be seating instead of the hotel, as well as having a 8000 seat stand in place of the current Main Stand, but I don''t have the decision, the money to pay for the work or the authority to turf ouu 400 happy clappies whilst the work is being carried

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""the City stand ......... A second tier on that with another 3-3.5K supporters"

eh ? It cannot be built upon, it would need to be completely demolished"

Are you sure about that City1st?

When the City Stand was built and eyebrows were raised about its small size, I am sure we were told not to worry because it had been intentionally built with suitable foundations for the addition of a second tier as and when we needed it. Of course I understand that we might have been told a porky; and modern building regs might have overtaken us anyway.

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City 1st I think you are being a tad naughty, perhaps obtuse!

Let us debate how this might be achieved, not throw stones at fairly reasonable possibilities. More positive outlooks will take this club forward, let''s not assume everything is too difficult. There are solutions to eveything and expanding the City stand is not quite the biggest challenge faced by mankind.

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[quote user="City1st"]That presumes the decision is in our hands.Given how almost all players now have a release clause in their contract if a ''bigger'' club makes an offer that offer will be based on the amount needed to trigger that clause (Earnshaw).As to what to do with any money then it will simply be used for the playing squad.the stadium stuff is, at the moment, totally out of the equation until the club can work out where to put the 4000 season ticket holders from the Main Stand during construction work[/quote]Maybe the masterplan is already in operation to bore season-ticket holders for a season or so, thus reducing renewals, waiting list etc and thus freeing up seats to move fans from the City stand.  Then the new stand can be built while we have low attendances before we start playing expansive football, thus increasing attendances again.

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[quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"]There was a couple of hypotheticals on the board a a few days ago. I''ve just had a thought and wondered what people would make of it.Let''s say RVW comes in next season and completely takes the Premier League by storm. He scores 23 goals. Comes 2nd in the Golden Boot behind rejuvenated Wayne Rooney at Chelsea. Norwich City finish 8th in a great season, bit with no cup wins and no European place.Interest obviously comes in for our new star striker, and an offer is made from an unnamed Premiership team for £30million.Do we;A) Not sell - Hope that another year of rebuilding and progress can meet the ambition of our new star striker,B) Sell - Spend the profit on rebuilding the City Stand to add 7,000 seats to Carrow Road,C) Sell - Reinvest the money into the squad.[/quote]You are about £10m out because the club has said that it would cost £30m to replace the City Stand.

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Its interesting trying to figure out what would happen with the fans in the city stand when it does eventually happen, I think several things would have to happen to make it work without causing uproar or losing a large number of core season ticket holders.I think the biggest indication something was going to happen, in preperation, would be a frezze on all new season tickets, thus freeing up space to move season ticket holders into the seats of those who dont re-new for however long is required. Judging by how many people were queing up for a new season ticket on wednesday at Carrow road alone, that suggests that  potentially there could be anywhere up to 400 seats free''d up doing this from non-renewals.With the jarrold I seem to remember there being 2 rows of temporary seating infront of the build for most of the season which, running the length of the touch line could account for a further 200, maybe more. I know this has been brought up a thousand times, but maybe we would see that temporary corner infill to seat another 200 or so. Then we could potentially loby the Premire League and request a lower proportion of away fans as a temporary messure, say a cap on 1,500 which would be maybe a further 500 seats maybe more. Which then would lead to the final thing being to pretty much scrap casual tickets in the standard areas of the ground,  meaning only really Top of the terrace or the corporate/posh seating in the Jarrold are able to be purchased as a one off. Im not sure on the exact number of Casual tickets but I think that potentially that could be anywhere between 500 and 2,000... someone want to help me out with that figure? The work on the Jarrold stand started the summer of ''03 and was finished about 3/4''s of the way through the following season, with some of the stand opening early for the West ham match if i remember correctly. If work was to comence on the City stand we know that, going off the Jarrolds time, there is the potential to have some of the fans back in the stand before the end of the season. But the other thing that could happen, and I hate to use this example, is to do it the way Wolves did with their newest stand. They appeared to build it front to back and started re-introducing fans into the lower tiers before they had completed work on the upper tier. I wonder if there is a way to attempt this to speed up the build by having some of the lower areas of the stand being focused on to get people back in there as quickly as possible. I dont know much about building or health and saftey, so feel free to set me straight on that.Either way, these are just out-of-season-saturday-afternoon musings... when there is nothing on the pitch to talk about, why not!

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Ship in a few hundred round-the-clock Asian construction workers and they would have the whole thing built in the close season with time to hold the Hospital Cup against the old foe before the real season begins.

 

Half in jest of course, but there are ways and means of speeding up such building projects these days.

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[quote user="tom cavendish"]

 the club has said that it would cost £30m to replace the City Stand.
[/quote]

Really ? Wherever has that been said or written. No waffle now Mr Caventosh just plain facts will do.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="tom cavendish"] the club has said that it would cost £30m to replace the City Stand.[/quote]

Really ? Wherever has that been said or written. No waffle now Mr Caventosh just plain facts will do.

[/quote]

 

McNally gave that as an upper figure in a twitter exchange on May 15:"If I win the euro millions I will help to expand the stadium :-)” thanks very much, need £20 to £30 million

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="tom cavendish"]

 the club has said that it would cost £30m to replace the City Stand.
[/quote]

Really ? Wherever has that been said or written. No waffle now Mr Caventosh just plain facts will do.

[/quote]

 

McNally gave that as an upper figure in a twitter exchange on May 15:

"If I win the euro millions I will help to expand the stadium :-)” thanks very much, need £20 to £30 million

[/quote]

So Purple it looks like Mr Caventosh has taken the upper end figure as what is actually required and took it to mean just a rebuild of the City Stand only.

Such a shame that people take twitter as gospel.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="tom cavendish"] the club has said that it would cost £30m to replace the City Stand.[/quote]

Really ? Wherever has that been said or written. No waffle now Mr Caventosh just plain facts will do.

[/quote]

 

McNally gave that as an upper figure in a twitter exchange on May 15:"If I win the euro millions I will help to expand the stadium :-)” thanks very much, need £20 to £30 million

[/quote]

So Purple it looks like Mr Caventosh has taken the upper end figure as what is actually required and took it to mean just a rebuild of the City Stand only.

Such a shame that people take twitter as gospel.

[/quote]I seldom understand what is in my own mind so I wouldn''t presume to know what goes on in anyone else''s. That said, the directors, when discussing expanding to 34,000 or 35,000 seats have only ever talked about either putting an extra tier on The Jarrold or an extra tier on the City Stand or a massive rebuild of the latter. I cannot remember a project for another stand being mentioned. So when McNally gives a figure of £20m-£30m for expansion he may mean just the City stand. As to trusting twitter, this was an official tweet from McNally as CEO of the football club, so it entirely fair to rely on it.

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