Apologies Due

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]ROONEY...............Cureton[/quote]What a player Rooney could have been if only he had put in the hard work Jamie Lad did. I have it on good authority he never practiced hitting a barn door or a cows arse...and he definitely couldn''t play a banjo. [;)]

[/quote]

 

That''s secondary Lapp, in my opinion. The main point is that Rooney could never have trotted out with green hair because wigs are not available in that colour. [:D][/quote]

So true Yankee. His only solution would be to have his head turfed or re-seeded. Either way, he would look an even bigger divot than he does now. [:D]

[BigFish 1,986]

[quote user="canarycat"]Very peased to note that my post has provoked some excellent and informed debate from many loyal fans who uderstand football and therefore understand what the club has achieved over the last four seasons.However, I note with interest, that there is a distinct lack of praise for the club, the manager,the players and the loyal fans, from those who were serial offenders, talking negative nonsense for the majority of the vital run in when the club needed support the most.Absolutely typical is all I can say.[/quote]

Typical indeed, there is a small cohort of posters who just can''t revel in the pleasure of our best finish in two decades or accept that they were mistataken in predicting oblivion for the tean just weeks ago. So instead of putting their hands up and admitting they were wrong all sorts made up explanations and historical revisionism is deployed.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Orford65"]What the reluctant apologists also wont want to hear is that, in terms of highest position gained in the top division, our final placing of 11th. makes Hoots the fifth most successful Norwich manager behind Walker, Stringer, Brown and Bond.It should also be noted that Bond, who was widely regarded as playing football the Norwich way - whatever that is, only managed 7 wins in the 78/79 season, but avoided relegation by virtue of drawing a staggering 23 matches, the highest ever total by some margin for our club in the top flight.[/quote]

That is a great statistic! Of course for younger posters one should point out that this was before  three points for a win, so getting a draw was half as good as getting a win rather than only a third as good. So arguably playing for a draw then (if that is what Bond sometimes did) was less defensive than it is now.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Orford65"]What the reluctant apologists also wont want to hear is that, in terms of highest position gained in the top division, our final placing of 11th. makes Hoots the fifth most successful Norwich manager behind Walker, Stringer, Brown and Bond.It should also be noted that Bond, who was widely regarded as playing football the Norwich way - whatever that is, only managed 7 wins in the 78/79 season, but avoided relegation by virtue of drawing a staggering 23 matches, the highest ever total by some margin for our club in the top flight.[/quote]

That is a great statistic! Of course for younger posters one should point out that this was before  three points for a win, so getting a draw was half as good as getting a win rather than only a third as good. So arguably playing for a draw then (if that is what Bond sometimes did) was less defensive than it is now.

[/quote]

 

And having looked at the games, there were only 5 0-0s but nine 1-1s, eight 2-2s and a 3-3!

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

[quote user="Orford65"]What the reluctant apologists also wont want to hear is that, in terms of highest position gained in the top division, our final placing of 11th. makes Hoots the fifth most successful Norwich manager behind Walker, Stringer, Brown and Bond.It should also be noted that Bond, who was widely regarded as playing football the Norwich way - whatever that is, only managed 7 wins in the 78/79 season, but avoided relegation by virtue of drawing a staggering 23 matches, the highest ever total by some margin for our club in the top flight.[/quote]Some people will NEVER give Chris Hughton credit.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

Yellow Wall Said: Perhaps the problem has been seen. We indeed played many players for many games, and injuries were few, but the quality of the back ups shows the real problem and the reason for this.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

We used the squad far less than last season, and we have a much stronger squad.

Only one player with 10+ appearances who was in last season''s Top 11 Players according to Whoscored has left the club: Kyle Naughton. Hughton has signed 5 who now appear in our Top 11 players for 2012/13.

A fantastic transfer record from the Hoot.

This year 15 players received 10+ starts. Last season 19 players received 10+ starts.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

[quote user="canarycat"]Very peased to note that my post has provoked some excellent and informed debate from many loyal fans who uderstand football and therefore understand what the club has achieved over the last four seasons.However, I note with interest, that there is a distinct lack of praise for the club, the manager,the players and the loyal fans, from those who were serial offenders, talking negative nonsense for the majority of the vital run in when the club needed support the most.Absolutely typical is all I can say.[/quote]

You are a smug little pussy are you not canarycat. I am sure you can direct us to a whole stream of posts where you were posting positive messages to us all during the dark days. I for one kept my head down, and it appears to me that you did too, I don''t think you are really in a position to be preaching!

[canarycat 27]

You are quite correct Canary girl. Instead of spending my time posting negative or positive posts on this forum during the vital run in. I, like many other loyal supprters, spent my time travelling to places like Wigan and Stoke as well as attending every home game and numerous other away fixtures and supporting the team, hoping that they would get the results they needed. Of course some of those performances were disappointing but Im a great believer in if you cannot say anything positive or productive dont say anything at all. I didnt say anything until i had something to say. I dont think im being smug, just factually correct. We finished 11th in the best league in the world and very few if any of the managers and players voiciferous critics have stood up to be counted and admit they were wrong.Not that this suprises me in any way at all. in fact I would have been astonished if they had. We wont have to wait too long for them to come out of the woodwork if we loose the first couple of games next season they will be back.

[Bill Car 0]

So to summarise Canarycat, you kept quiet when we were losing, but you went to a lot of games so your opinion now is obviously more valid?

Frankly you’re “If you can’t say anything positive, don’t say anything at all” statement is retarded. That’s a business model that no one follows for a very good reason.

“You’re not being smug” Ha!! Waiting till after the event then asking for apologies is being smug, you don’t strike me as the type that would post an “I was wrong” thread if we went down.

Just to make this very clear, you can still support a team passionately and ask question regarding performances and decisions, this does not deduct from how much you want the team to win.

During the 19 games when we had the worst form in the league, I didn’t post often but was rightly worried.

Now, apologise....

[Mr Jenkins 0]

You have NAILLED it really Bill, a bit like shooting fish in a barrel isn''t it. But there you go, I suppose he has asked for it.

"Of course some of those performances were disappointing but Im a great believer in if you cannot say anything positive or productive dont say anything at all"

So you say nothing positive because you can''t, bit of a confession pussy? In fact almost an apology!

[Bill Car 0]

I’m not really expecting a retort Canarygirl. To question asking questions flies in the face of science and reason.

I’m chuffed to bits at our final position, (I won over a ton in the Man city game!) but equally I think realism has escaped a lot of our fans. The league we play in is unforgiving and rightly so given the amount of money involved. Not many clubs would have backed a manager who goes 19 games with the worst form on the league, irrespective of what was achieved beforehand.

Chris Hughton has earned the right to lead us into next season and his signings this season have been very good and I’m looking forward to what he brings in. This aside, if he was sacked anytime between the 15 -19 games when our form was dire I would of have had no complaints due to the nature of the league.

Canarycat, did your “If you can’t say anything positive, don’t say anything at all” also apply when Roeder was in charge? Or is this purely a hindsight statement?

[nutty nigel 7,509]

There''s nothing wrong with constructive criticism or debate stimulated by that criticism. Some of the stuff posted here towards the end of the season was neither. Especially some of the nasty stuff thrown towards Grant Holt. Can that be excused as realism?

 

 

[Bill Car 0]

I’m a big Grant Holt fan, he’s undoubtedly not had a great season but I think he brings a lot to the team in terms of attitude and willingness that goes amiss. So not condoning that in anyway.

My point put quite simply is that a season is 38 games long. For half of that time (in a row) we were the worst team in the league. That’s just a factual statement and anyone saying the team as a whole including the manager should not be beyond criticism during that time is frankly deluded.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

I like how your opinion is that you are a realist and anyone who disagrees is deluded. That is more likely to stimulate abuse rather than debate.

 

Anyway, was it realistic to say Grant Holt was overweight, disinterested and a red card waiting to happen?

 

 

[Bill Car 0]

Abuse away!!!

Not really sure where you are going with the Grant Holt thing as I’ve never said a bad word against him and on the contrary, just agreed with you with what he brings to the team so maybe your train of thought is slightly misguided (as is mine after copious amounts of wine!)….

I shouldn’t really have to repeat myself but can’t be bothered to reword it so will just post it again. Try reading each word slowly.

My point put quite simply is that a season is 38 games long. For half of that time (in a row) we were the worst team in the league. That’s just a factual statement and anyone saying the team as a whole including the manager should not be beyond criticism during that time is frankly deluded.

If you find that derogatory to any one person, you’ve completely misinterpreted what I’ve said.

[Bill Car 0]

Nutty, I don''t want to get off on the wrong foot but can you tell me what part of what I’ve just posted is factually incorrect? Then we would have something to debate.

[crabbycanary 2]

Should Wigan have sacked Martinez anytime over the last couple of years, and was Man City right to sack Mancini for finishing second in the Prem?

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Bill Car"]Abuse away!!! Not really sure where you are going with the Grant Holt thing as I’ve never said a bad word against him and on the contrary, just agreed with you with what he brings to the team so maybe your train of thought is slightly misguided (as is mine after copious amounts of wine!)…. I shouldn’t really have to repeat myself but can’t be bothered to reword it so will just post it again. Try reading each word slowly. My point put quite simply is that a season is 38 games long. For half of that time (in a row) we were the worst team in the league. That’s just a factual statement and anyone saying the team as a whole including the manager should not be beyond criticism during that time is frankly deluded. If you find that derogatory to any one person, you’ve completely misinterpreted what I’ve said.[/quote]

 

You will get off on the wrong foot if you carry on like that. The only way to answer you is to quote the original post, which you replied to, which I will repost here, and ask you to try reading each word slowly. I''ve even made it easier for you with bold print and pretty colours...

 

[quote user="canarycat"]To all of those who unfairly critisised and villified our manager, our centre forward, & our attacking midfielder perhaps you now have the decency to admit you were wrong? we have finished 11th in the most competative premier league in the world on very limited resources and the club is now in a fantastic postition to move forward. Have the decency to stand up and apologise for some of the histrionic drivel that hes been posted over the past few weeks on this forum. Get behind your team, support them and enjoy what has been a fantastic success story with more to come.[/quote]

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="crabbycanary"]Should Wigan have sacked Martinez anytime over the last couple of years, and was Man City right to sack Mancini for finishing second in the Prem?[/quote]

 

Southampton, Sunderland, Reading and QPR all sacked their manager to try and retain their Premier League status. They all finished below us. That suggests to me that our finishing position would have been worse if we had sacked our manager as has been suggested. Worse enough to be relegated? I think that''s a distinct possibility.

 

 

[crabbycanary 2]

I know Nutty, it was more aimed at any lingering pantwetters.

It perhaps also shows the differing thought processes of people like Dave Whelan and the owners of Man City

[Bill Car 0]

Fight Fight Fight!

The post I was replying to was this one from cannarycat, as I found it, like cannary girl a bit self-righteous

"You are quite correct Canary girl. Instead of spending my time posting negative or positive posts on this forum during the vital run in. I, like many other loyal supprters, spent my time travelling to places like Wigan and Stoke as well as attending every home game and numerous other away fixtures and supporting the team, hoping that they would get the results they needed. Of course some of those performances were disappointing but Im a great believer in if you cannot say anything positive or productive dont say anything at all. I didnt say anything until i had something to say. I dont think im being smug, just factually correct. We finished 11th in the best league in the world and very few if any of the managers and players voiciferous critics have stood up to be counted and admit they were wrong.Not that this suprises me in any way at all. in fact I would have been astonished if they had. We wont have to wait too long for them to come out of the woodwork if we loose the first couple of games next season they will be back."

I’d of hoped that you would have picked that up as I used “quotations marks” to the points I was referring to and it was directly under his post.

This is why I found your continued reference to Grant Holt Baffling. To be fair, I’m new and unsure of the rules, does every post even 18 pages in have to be a direct reply to the original post or can other discussions take place around it?

Thanks for the bold and pretty colours by the way, if you could also spell the long words fon-et-ik-al-lee, that would also be very helpful.

In answer to your question Crabby, I don’t know. I’m glad that we didn’t sack Hughton now, but hindsight’s a wonderful thing.

Nutty, how many points did each of those teams get after sacking their manager compared to Norwich during the same period? If you want to make comparisons at least make them relevant.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Bill Carr

 

I''m not going to look back and check it out because in my mind it''s irrelevant. Southampton, Sunderland, Reading and QPR all sacked their managers to try to stay in the PL. They all finished below us. Or to put it another way we kept faith with our manager to try to stay in the PL and finished above those who didn''t.

 

 

[Bill Car 0]

Nutty, even the most bog standard analysis shows that all the teams who sacked their manager except QPR gained more point than we did during the period that their new manager was in charge.

If you’re going to make sweeping statements please don’t brush off the facts.

From this statement alone it’s clear you’re talking shite, I’m not taking the Piss, but I think you should bowl to my superior judgement.

If you’re going to try and argue with me on facts, I don’t think you realise how much trouble urine.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

The league table is my fact and we finished 11th keeping faith with the same manager. If you can bring me some facts to prove we''d have finished above 11th through sacking Hughton then you have a point. If you can''t then take the piss off buddy[:O]

 

 

[Bill Car 0]

Sorry nutty, all jokes, I didn’t mean to be self-defecating, this was my Piss de résistance.

We’re not going to agree so, let’s agree to disagree and have a laugh!

[nutty nigel 7,509]

My favourite girl band of all time told me "Don''t mess with Bill"[8][;)]

 

 

[TIL 1010 4,722]

[quote user="Bill Car"]Nutty, even the most bog standard analysis shows that all the teams who sacked their manager except QPR gained more point than we did during the period that their new manager was in charge. If you’re going to make sweeping statements please don’t brush off the facts. From this statement alone it’s clear you’re talking shite, [/quote]

Well now Bill i think you will find that Nigel Adkins was manager of Reading for their last 8 games of the season during which time they got 5 points. Norwich City got 10. Not a sweeping statement or talking shite but just a plain fact.

[Bill Car 0]

Till you''re right. The whole post was pretty much done in jest.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

[quote user="Bill Car"]Till you''re right. The whole post was pretty much done in jest.[/quote]

So i had better not mention Paulo Di Canio then who was manager of Sunderland for the last 7 games of the season when they got 8 points whilst Norwich got 10 ? [;)]

[Bill Car 0]

Probably best you keep that to yourself!

As you''ve come this far, how about the rest? a Pie chart or Histogram should suffice.

I''ve not heard that one Nutty, but always love a bit of Motown.