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andrew norwichcity

Johnson and Howson

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I''ve been watching the games on my laptop whilst at uni as I''ve been unable to attend most of the games this season (Been to 7 and seen 1 win).

Anyways, my main point is - do these two offer enough to the midfield?

I think Johnson has, to a degree, established himself in the team through being consistently ''ok''. He doesn''t do the greatest job defensively or provide much in attack but puts in a good shift most weeks with his work ethic. My issue with him is that he does nothing to help us get forward and gives away freekicks.

Howson for me sometimes disappears on the pitch and having seen his passing statistics I wasn''t very impressed. Does he provide much going forward?

I understand we have them both as ''defensive'' midfielders but surely they are in actual fact more standard centre midfielders playing further back which leads to less attacking potential. It''s obvious Tettey will come back into the side (for me anyways) but I want to see Fox get his chance to work alongside him and ping balls about, show composed passing and generally offer a different angle to what we''ve seen recently - we''ve barely scored and not won enough.

I might just be on my own here... Some people love both Howson and Johnson! I just want to see change.

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Johnson is  a stalwart. Howson is fircone useless. Disasterous signing, second on the list for the summer exit door after damp-eyed nancy boy Surman. Don''t waist your time on book larnin Student Grant. Get a haircut!

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Howson has really disappointed me! I was quite excited when he joined. The bits and pieces I saw of him at Leeds, he always seemed to be quite forward thinking scoring a few goals. For us I can''t really remember him having a good game. I wonder if its what the manager is asking him to do? Or maybe he''s one of those one team players, and his best performances came at Leeds because they were his team?! I really don''t know.

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I kind of agree. With Hughton being obviously defensive minded he''s given Howson a different role to play this season than he had when he joined - I remember people discussing him playing as an attacking midfielder.

If you did a comparison of our centre midfielders against most other teams it''s rare to the point of non-existent that either of these two have provided a through ball, amazing pass or really scored/tested the goalkeeper much. Johnson gets stuck in though and Howson is... just there?

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Johnson has had a decent season always commited and a 100% player, Howson for me is the technically better footballer but he''s just not showing it and in general is having a very poor season. Regardless i hope we get better than both in during the summer so we can actually control a game abit more. Currently if i had to lose one from the squad i''d keep Johnson everytime.

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Howson needs to play as an attacking midfielder or in the Hoolahan role, the current position is like asking Cazorla to play defensive midfield. I know he''s not as good as Cazorla but you get my point, a move like that won''t make him look too sharp neither.

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I am a big fan of Howson and I think he can still be a cracking player for us despite a disappointing season in general. However I am still slightly uncertain about what his best position is.

Last season I actually thought he didn''t look that impressive when deployed off the striker. He was largely anonymous against Everton despite scoring the goal. However when he was used as a deep lying playmaker (like at Arsenal) I thought he was absolutely outstanding. This display was capped by him receiving the ball off Ryan Bennett and feeding a wonderful assist through to Morison for the equaliser.

This season has been a different story. I thought against Swansea his most impressive moment was when he burst forward from midfield carrying the ball for about 30 yards or so at speed. If he is given more licence to attack I wonder if we would see the best of him.

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Johnson has been a sensation this season as I would put him in contention for POTS. He offers a lot defensively and offensively when he makes a powerful burst forward.

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BJ is an honest, hard working pro. He puts a shift in every single week and deserves his place in the team. However, he needs to know his limitations, his long range passing and shooting is terrible. He should be winning the ball then giving it short to someone who can create.Howson as played out of position for us. He needs to be in the Wes role to excel. He is a very intelligent footballer.

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I''ve no doubt once Tettey is match fit, he will take Howson''s place, who has been mediocre at best

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Johnson should have been MOM on Saturday against Swansea, he put in a magnificent shift, Howson on the other hand was very poor. I understand that he is playing out of position, but the ammount of times he misplaced a simple pass was not PL standard. I imagine a fully fit Tettey will partner Johnson on Saturday ( I really hope so anyway....if Howson''s name is on the team sheet I will be amazed).

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How things change! Last year both Holt and Howson were regarded as being very good. Now both seem flops.

 

We defend Holt as suffering from a different formation and having to play a different game. ( I suspect that it is also because we have lost creativity, and his supply has largely dried up, although other peopkle wonder about his fitness or frame of mind.)

 

Do we not owe Howson something of the same? Last season, having arrived with injury, he impressed most people with his short passing, shooting and his pace (- at the time the fastest in the club over 15-20 yards.) I saw him as the medium- term replacement for Wes. Now he seldom gets forward, and he is required to play a defensive role, staying back when Johnson surges forward. (I suspect that Fox, too, would suffer if he was having to play at the back, and seldom able to venture forward, although his best passing is long range.)

 

I think that Tettey, who burst on the scene last autumn, and threatened to score, was not playing as well as he did when he was injured. I hope that when he plays it is the old Tettey we see, rather than the later version. He was never particularly creative, but his surging runs did threaten defences even if little came of it, but his passing is not great if it is anything other than a short square pass.

 

The other (absent) midfielder, another one who cannot match Tettey and Johnson for tackling is, of course, Surman. He, too, is better suited to playing upfield, and he pushes Wes for creativity, with beautiful touches.

 

The trouble is that our two good tacklers, Tettey and Johnson, who need to be successful because they are effectively the midfield unless a winger or Wes tracks back, are not blessed with touch when it comes to passing forward in a quick one touch movement. We hope that any new signings this summer will include highly mobile midfielders with a more all-round game, - able to get forward and shoot accurately but also resolute and effective in defence.

 

We are where we are, however, - with six games to save our season. I expect CH to return to his original selection, with a midfield of Pilks, Johnson, Tettey and Snoddy. If Wes continues to be a little off form, perhaps CH will try Howson or Benno in that position. But he may surprise us.

 

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[quote user="channonswindmill"]

Johnson should have been MOM on Saturday against Swansea, he put in a magnificent shift, Howson on the other hand was very poor. I understand that he is playing out of position, but the ammount of times he misplaced a simple pass was not PL standard. I imagine a fully fit Tettey will partner Johnson on Saturday ( I really hope so anyway....if Howson''s name is on the team sheet I will be amazed).

[/quote]

So you sing Johnson''s praises but criticise Howson for giving the ball away. As have many others. I spoke to someone after the Swansea game who was most annoyed about Howson giving the ball away "all the time".

 

Against Swansea Howson played 38 passes and had a success rate of 71%. Johnson played 32 passes at a success rate of 59%.

 

 

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[quote user="GJP"][quote user="channonswindmill"]

Johnson should have been MOM on Saturday against Swansea, he put in a magnificent shift, Howson on the other hand was very poor. I understand that he is playing out of position, but the ammount of times he misplaced a simple pass was not PL standard. I imagine a fully fit Tettey will partner Johnson on Saturday ( I really hope so anyway....if Howson''s name is on the team sheet I will be amazed).

[/quote]

So you sing Johnson''s praises but criticise Howson for giving the ball away. As have many others. I spoke to someone after the Swansea game who was most annoyed about Howson giving the ball away "all the time".

 

Against Swansea Howson played 38 passes and had a success rate of 71%. Johnson played 32 passes at a success rate of 59%.

 [/quote]

Is that not (at least partially) down to Johnson actually trying to spread the play a bit as opposed to Howson who seems to like the idea of passing it to team-mates who are already under pressure from the opposition? Just an observation.

That and when you take into account Johnsons ability to defend and win the ball back for us as opposed to Howson who when he''s off the ball looks like a lost school-child, it''s evident to see why people praise BJ and not JH.

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GJP, just saying it as I saw from the stands. Stats can sometimes be misleading and do''nt reflect the ammount of time a player had for decision making and making the pass. I just felt Howson made poor passes when he had time not to. Each to his own.

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I do appreciate that stats don''t give you the whole picture.

 

But it''s also pretty obvious that Jonny Howson could play like Zinedine Zidane and some people would still accuse him of giving the ball away or going missing etc

 

It''s just what happens. The crowd get it in for a player and that player struggles to do anything right in the eyes of certain fans. No matter how well we''re doing there always tends to be a scapegoat or a whipping boy - most of the time it''s totally unwarranted.

 

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[quote user="GJP"][quote user="channonswindmill"]Johnson should have been MOM on Saturday against Swansea, he put in a magnificent shift, Howson on the other hand was very poor. I understand that he is playing out of position, but the ammount of times he misplaced a simple pass was not PL standard. I imagine a fully fit Tettey will partner Johnson on Saturday ( I really hope so anyway....if Howson''s name is on the team sheet I will be amazed).

[/quote]

So you sing Johnson''s praises but criticise Howson for giving the ball away. As have many others. I spoke to someone after the Swansea game who was most annoyed about Howson giving the ball away "all the time".

Against Swansea Howson played 38 passes and had a success rate of 71%. Johnson played 32 passes at a success rate of 59%.[/quote]

I agree with every word ''channonswindmill'' wrote which are at odds with your stats. It seems that ''channonswindmill, the person you spoke to after the game and many others (including me) all saw the same game. We all agree that Johnson was probably our best player and Howson was poor.

Stats can be very misleading. Snoddy''s goal was created by a wonderful ball from Kamara to Bennett which made crossing for the goal a formality. But that ball will only go down as a successful pass and not as an assist. Just the same as in the previous game where Kamaras header was goal-bound before Hoolahan touched it. It was clear it was going in the net and yet he just gets awarded an assist.

Football fans trust their eyes while nerds trust statistics......

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="GJP"][quote user="channonswindmill"]Johnson should have been MOM on Saturday against Swansea, he put in a magnificent shift, Howson on the other hand was very poor. I understand that he is playing out of position, but the ammount of times he misplaced a simple pass was not PL standard. I imagine a fully fit Tettey will partner Johnson on Saturday ( I really hope so anyway....if Howson''s name is on the team sheet I will be amazed).

[/quote]

So you sing Johnson''s praises but criticise Howson for giving the ball away. As have many others. I spoke to someone after the Swansea game who was most annoyed about Howson giving the ball away "all the time".

Against Swansea Howson played 38 passes and had a success rate of 71%. Johnson played 32 passes at a success rate of 59%.[/quote]


I agree with every word ''channonswindmill'' wrote which are at odds with your stats. It seems that ''channonswindmill, the person you spoke to after the game and many others (including me) all saw the same game. We all agree that Johnson was probably our best player and Howson was poor.


Stats can be very misleading. Snoddy''s goal was created by a wonderful ball from Kamara to Bennett which made crossing for the goal a formality. But that ball will only go down as a successful pass and not as an assist. Just the same as in the previous game where Kamaras header was goal-bound before Hoolahan touched it. It was clear it was going in the net and yet he just gets awarded an assist.


Football fans trust their eyes while nerds trust statistics......

[/quote]

I had Johnson down as MOTM against Swansea too. But I also thought Howson had a good game after a dodgy start (like pretty much everyone else).

 

I was really only using the stats to show that this stuff about Howson giving the ball away probably isn''t as bad as what is being made out to be.

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[quote user="GJP"]I had Johnson down as MOTM against Swansea too. But I also thought Howson had a good game after a dodgy start (like pretty much everyone else).

I was really only using the stats to show that this stuff about Howson giving the ball away probably isn''t as bad as what is being made out to be.[/quote]

Ok, I''ll let you off you this time. Please take this as a final warning though........

[;)] [:D]

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[quote user="GJP"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="GJP"][quote user="channonswindmill"]Johnson should have been MOM on Saturday against Swansea, he put in a magnificent shift, Howson on the other hand was very poor. I understand that he is playing out of position, but the ammount of times he misplaced a simple pass was not PL standard. I imagine a fully fit Tettey will partner Johnson on Saturday ( I really hope so anyway....if Howson''s name is on the team sheet I will be amazed).

[/quote]

So you sing Johnson''s praises but criticise Howson for giving the ball away. As have many others. I spoke to someone after the Swansea game who was most annoyed about Howson giving the ball away "all the time".

Against Swansea Howson played 38 passes and had a success rate of 71%. Johnson played 32 passes at a success rate of 59%.[/quote]

I agree with every word ''channonswindmill'' wrote which are at odds with your stats. It seems that ''channonswindmill, the person you spoke to after the game and many others (including me) all saw the same game. We all agree that Johnson was probably our best player and Howson was poor.

Stats can be very misleading. Snoddy''s goal was created by a wonderful ball from Kamara to Bennett which made crossing for the goal a formality. But that ball will only go down as a successful pass and not as an assist. Just the same as in the previous game where Kamaras header was goal-bound before Hoolahan touched it. It was clear it was going in the net and yet he just gets awarded an assist.

Football fans trust their eyes while nerds trust statistics......

[/quote]

I had Johnson down as MOTM against Swansea too. But I also thought Howson had a good game after a dodgy start (like pretty much everyone else).

 

I was really only using the stats to show that this stuff about Howson giving the ball away probably isn''t as bad as what is being made out to be.

[/quote]I thought Howson did improve, and looks best when running with the ball but i still felt he was relatively poor as he has been all season bar a couple of good performances.I certainly don''t target Howson as i quite like him and think he has potential but this season he''s been quite far behind our primary two of Johnson and Tettey. I also don''t think he''s done enough on the pitch to demonstrate he should be ahead of Fox - although this may differ in training of course!

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