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Citizen Journalist Foghorn

Happy with a point?

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

 But most of these old whiners aren''t supporters are they? Spectators or customers maybe. Or fans at best. By definition a supporter actually does something positive. These don''t. Old chicken head admitted himselfd that he''s only moved to do something when it''s a chance to moan...

 [/quote]

That is the problem with the blinkered.  You consider any discussion about tactics that aren''t Hughton''s to be an attack on the club.  Any discussion on the negative aspects of our play, and defensive approach, with better defenders,  that actually concedes just as many goals as our more attacking approach last season as heresy.  Hughton''s unwillingness to push for a win at any point in the season.

The happy clappers are more than ready to write off last seasons heroes as "not good enough" if Hughton happens to not pick them this season.

You are right, I don''t come on here often when we are playing well, only when I see a problem.  I am too busy enjoying our performances otherwise. 

I stand by my opinion of Hughton, he signings have been excellent. He tactics, and management during games leave a lot to be desired.

[/quote]
My good man, so do your posts. You consider any disagreement with your opinions an attack on you. I think you''re mostly wrong about your thoughts though.

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[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

 But most of these old whiners aren''t supporters are they? Spectators or customers maybe. Or fans at best. By definition a supporter actually does something positive. These don''t. Old chicken head admitted himselfd that he''s only moved to do something when it''s a chance to moan...

 [/quote]

That is the problem with the blinkered.  You consider any discussion about tactics that aren''t Hughton''s to be an attack on the club.  Any discussion on the negative aspects of our play, and defensive approach, with better defenders,  that actually concedes just as many goals as our more attacking approach last season as heresy.  Hughton''s unwillingness to push for a win at any point in the season.

The happy clappers are more than ready to write off last seasons heroes as "not good enough" if Hughton happens to not pick them this season.

You are right, I don''t come on here often when we are playing well, only when I see a problem.  I am too busy enjoying our performances otherwise. 

I stand by my opinion of Hughton, he signings have been excellent. He tactics, and management during games leave a lot to be desired.

[/quote]

Well, you do go on CF but I don''t blame you as I agree with you !!

[/quote]
As are you.

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[quote user="Stig"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

 But most of these old whiners aren''t supporters are they? Spectators or customers maybe. Or fans at best. By definition a supporter actually does something positive. These don''t. Old chicken head admitted himselfd that he''s only moved to do something when it''s a chance to moan...

 [/quote]


That is the problem with the blinkered.  You consider any discussion about tactics that aren''t Hughton''s to be an attack on the club.  Any discussion on the negative aspects of our play, and defensive approach, with better defenders,  that actually concedes just as many goals as our more attacking approach last season as heresy.  Hughton''s unwillingness to push for a win at any point in the season.

The happy clappers are more than ready to write off last seasons heroes as "not good enough" if Hughton happens to not pick them this season.

You are right, I don''t come on here often when we are playing well, only when I see a problem.  I am too busy enjoying our performances otherwise. 

I stand by my opinion of Hughton, he signings have been excellent. He tactics, and management during games leave a lot to be desired.

[/quote]


My good man, so do your posts. You consider any disagreement with your opinions an attack on you. I think you''re mostly wrong about your thoughts though.

[/quote]

Ah, but you don''t just disagree Stig, you abuse, and thus lose the argument.

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[:''(] Oh no, I lose? I wasn''t aware I was trying to win anything. Maybe next time someone fails to articulate a point of any kind and then defends it vehemently and just ends up looking stupid I will try harder!

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[quote user="Stig"][:''(] Oh no, I lose? I wasn''t aware I was trying to win anything. Maybe next time someone fails to articulate a point of any kind and then defends it vehemently and just ends up looking stupid I will try harder!
[/quote]

For example, if you have to question is person''s IQ to articulate a point then it says more about you than them. 

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

 But most of these old whiners aren''t supporters are they? Spectators or customers maybe. Or fans at best. By definition a supporter actually does something positive. These don''t. Old chicken head admitted himselfd that he''s only moved to do something when it''s a chance to moan...

 [/quote]


That is the problem with the blinkered.  You consider any discussion about tactics that aren''t Hughton''s to be an attack on the club.  Any discussion on the negative aspects of our play, and defensive approach, with better defenders,  that actually concedes just as many goals as our more attacking approach last season as heresy.  Hughton''s unwillingness to push for a win at any point in the season.

The happy clappers are more than ready to write off last seasons heroes as "not good enough" if Hughton happens to not pick them this season.

You are right, I don''t come on here often when we are playing well, only when I see a problem.  I am too busy enjoying our performances otherwise. 

I stand by my opinion of Hughton, he signings have been excellent. He tactics, and management during games leave a lot to be desired.

[/quote]

 

Like I said. A spectator. Much like going to the theatre. You are the epitomy of the modern premier league customer. Nothing wrong with that. The advertising obviously works on you. But you will never enjoy wins and good times like a supporter will.

 

 

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]We got some different tactics and personnel yesterday and a more convincing performance. It''s opportunities squandered at home Newcastle, Fulham, Southampton and even Swansea that''s of greater relevance.[/quote]

 

What different tactics?

 [/quote]


No different tactics.  Which is what I consider is the problem.  Just because the tactics might be right for a game at the Emirates, does not make them the right tactics for a home game against an out of sorts Newcastle.
[/quote]

 

I thought there was no change in tactics.

 

Highland?

 

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

 But most of these old whiners aren''t supporters are they? Spectators or customers maybe. Or fans at best. By definition a supporter actually does something positive. These don''t. Old chicken head admitted himselfd that he''s only moved to do something when it''s a chance to moan...

 [/quote]


That is the problem with the blinkered.  You consider any discussion about tactics that aren''t Hughton''s to be an attack on the club.  Any discussion on the negative aspects of our play, and defensive approach, with better defenders,  that actually concedes just as many goals as our more attacking approach last season as heresy.  Hughton''s unwillingness to push for a win at any point in the season.

The happy clappers are more than ready to write off last seasons heroes as "not good enough" if Hughton happens to not pick them this season.

You are right, I don''t come on here often when we are playing well, only when I see a problem.  I am too busy enjoying our performances otherwise. 

I stand by my opinion of Hughton, he signings have been excellent. He tactics, and management during games leave a lot to be desired.

[/quote]

 

Like I said. A spectator. Much like going to the theatre. You are the epitomy of the modern premier league customer. Nothing wrong with that. The advertising obviously works on you. But you will never enjoy wins and good times like a supporter will.

[/quote]

I think we will all enjoy a win when it eventually comes........................  I just hope it will not be in the pre-season prior to a Championship season. 

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Like I said. A spectator. Much like going to the theatre. You are the epitomy of the modern premier league customer. Nothing wrong with that. The advertising obviously works on you. But you will never enjoy wins and good times like a supporter will.

[/quote]

As I said, a happy clapper.  Someone who does not question authority.  Hughton''s mentality has worked its way through the squad.  I hope we stay up in spite of our unwillingness to push for a victory in games.

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Like I said. A spectator. Much like going to the theatre. You are the epitomy of the modern premier league customer. Nothing wrong with that. The advertising obviously works on you. But you will never enjoy wins and good times like a supporter will.

[/quote]


As I said, a happy clapper.  Someone who does not question authority.  Hughton''s mentality has worked its way through the squad.  I hope we stay up in spite of our unwillingness to push for a victory in games.

[/quote]

 

Question authority? LOL

 

Who''s authority?

 

 

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[quote user="morty"]Wait, Foghorn knows football tactics better than Premiership manager, Chris Hughton?This is big news.[/quote]You know this is exactly the same as Glenn Roeder''s "I must have missed your tenure as England manager" argument.

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[quote user="Comfort Big Fish Ramatebele"][quote user="morty"]Wait, Foghorn knows football tactics better than Premiership manager, Chris Hughton?

This is big news.
[/quote]

You know this is exactly the same as Glenn Roeder''s "I must have missed your tenure as England manager" argument.
[/quote]

 

To be fair there''s nothing wrong with Roeder''s tenure argument except that it''s not something a football manager should ever say to his club''s supporters.

 

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[quote user="Comfort Big Fish Ramatebele"][quote user="morty"]Wait, Foghorn knows football tactics better than Premiership manager, Chris Hughton?This is big news.[/quote]You know this is exactly the same as Glenn Roeder''s "I must have missed your tenure as England manager" argument.[/quote]Except I am right, and he is a weasel faced club ruiner.[;)]

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What that article says is that benno would settle for six draws (as would I) not that they''re aiming for it.

Some people really astound me with their stupidity.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Comfort Big Fish Ramatebele"][quote user="morty"]Wait, Foghorn knows football tactics better than Premiership manager, Chris Hughton?This is big news.[/quote]You know this is exactly the same as Glenn Roeder''s "I must have missed your tenure as England manager" argument.[/quote]

 

To be fair there''s nothing wrong with Roeder''s tenure argument except that it''s not something a football manager should ever say to his club''s supporters.

 

[/quote]There is something very wrong with it. The implication is that in order to criticise something you need to be good at it yourself. I''m not a chef but if someone served me a plate of dog poo I''d be well within my rights to complain.Its a silly thing to say because if it holds true it basically makes all fan''s discussion about football invalid.

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[quote user="BWs Cat "]What that article says is that benno would settle for six draws (as would I) not that they''re aiming for it. Some people really astound me with their stupidity.[/quote]

Well, I''d settle for 2 wins in 6 games to garner the same points which would be far less stressful, hopefully.  

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[quote user="Comfort Big Fish Ramatebele"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Comfort Big Fish Ramatebele"][quote user="morty"]Wait, Foghorn knows football tactics better than Premiership manager, Chris Hughton?

This is big news.
[/quote]

You know this is exactly the same as Glenn Roeder''s "I must have missed your tenure as England manager" argument.
[/quote]

 

To be fair there''s nothing wrong with Roeder''s tenure argument except that it''s not something a football manager should ever say to his club''s supporters.

 

[/quote]

There is something very wrong with it. The implication is that in order to criticise something you need to be good at it yourself. I''m not a chef but if someone served me a plate of dog poo I''d be well within my rights to complain.

Its a silly thing to say because if it holds true it basically makes all fan''s discussion about football invalid.
[/quote]

Indeed, I was one of the few questioning Gordon Brown''s borrowing and spending strategy well before the economic crash. How dare I ...

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[quote user="paul moy"]

Indeed, I was one of the few questioning Gordon Brown''s borrowing and spending strategy well before the economic crash. How dare I ...

[/quote]Brown''s borrowing and spending was very much in line with the previous 20 years and generally speaking was historically low considering post-war years, and didn''t in the slightest cause the economic crash.So its a good analogy because although people are entirely able to criticise without being informed, it doesn''t neccessarily mean they are right.

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[quote user="Comfort "Big Fish" Ramatebele"][quote user="paul moy"]

Indeed, I was one of the few questioning Gordon Brown''s borrowing and spending strategy well before the economic crash. How dare I ...

Brown''s borrowing and spending was very much in line with the previous 20 years and generally speaking was historically low considering post-war years, and didn''t in the slightest cause the economic crash.So its a good analogy because although people are entirely able to criticise without being informed, it doesn''t neccessarily mean they are right.[/quote]
[:D][Y]

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[quote user="Comfort Big Fish Ramatebele"][quote user="paul moy"]

Indeed, I was one of the few questioning Gordon Brown''s borrowing and spending strategy well before the economic crash. How dare I ...

[/quote]

Brown''s borrowing and spending was very much in line with the previous 20 years and generally speaking was historically low considering post-war years, and didn''t in the slightest cause the economic crash.

So its a good analogy because although people are entirely able to criticise without being informed, it doesn''t neccessarily mean they are right.
[/quote]

Bearing in mind that he left a 160 Billion pound recurring deficit I beg to differ. At boom times he should have been saving for a rainy day, not increasing spending and expanding an already massive public sector by almost a million employees. Still he knew best as he was ''The Best Chancellor we have ever had'' as he abolished ''bust'', as I was told many times by his ''blind'' supporters .......... 

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[quote user="paul moy"]

Bearing in mind that he left a 160 Billion pound recurring deficit I beg to differ. At boom times he should have been saving for a rainy day, not increasing spending and expanding an already massive public sector by almost a million employees. Still he knew best as he was ''The Best Chancellor we have ever had'' as he abolished ''bust'', as I was told many times by his ''blind'' supporters .......... 

[/quote]This isn''t really the place to discuss this. If you really want to you can make a thread in the off topic forum and I will be happy to discuss why you are wrong. The short version is that public spending as a % of GDP during Thatcher years was 39-48%, compared to Brown''s 41-48%, there is very little difference between Labour and Tory economic policy post Blair.

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[quote user="Comfort Big Fish Ramatebele"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Comfort Big Fish Ramatebele"][quote user="morty"]Wait, Foghorn knows football tactics better than Premiership manager, Chris Hughton?

This is big news.
[/quote]

You know this is exactly the same as Glenn Roeder''s "I must have missed your tenure as England manager" argument.
[/quote]

 

To be fair there''s nothing wrong with Roeder''s tenure argument except that it''s not something a football manager should ever say to his club''s supporters.

 

[/quote]

There is something very wrong with it. The implication is that in order to criticise something you need to be good at it yourself. I''m not a chef but if someone served me a plate of dog poo I''d be well within my rights to complain.

Its a silly thing to say because if it holds true it basically makes all fan''s discussion about football invalid.
[/quote]

 

So we agree then?

 

 

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[quote user="Comfort Big Fish Ramatebele"][quote user="paul moy"]

Bearing in mind that he left a 160 Billion pound recurring deficit I beg to differ. At boom times he should have been saving for a rainy day, not increasing spending and expanding an already massive public sector by almost a million employees. Still he knew best as he was ''The Best Chancellor we have ever had'' as he abolished ''bust'', as I was told many times by his ''blind'' supporters .......... 

[/quote]

This isn''t really the place to discuss this. If you really want to you can make a thread in the off topic forum and I will be happy to discuss why you are wrong.

The short version is that public spending as a % of GDP during Thatcher years was 39-48%, compared to Brown''s 41-48%, there is very little difference between Labour and Tory economic policy post Blair.
[/quote]

Not really worth discussing further as opinions are so polarised. What''s done is done and the point was originally just to emphasise that the ''man in the street'' is entitled to look at the evidence and make an informed opinion. Opinions should not be discounted simply because a person is not doing that particular job.   Commonsense really.

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[quote user="Comfort Big Fish Ramatebele"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

So we agree then?

[/quote]

Not really. I think its a fallacious argument regardless of who is saying it, whatever their motives are.

[/quote]

 

So you think the butchers bakers and candlestick makers do know more than the professionals? Is that all of them? Or just the ones you agree with?

 

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

So you think the butchers bakers and candlestick makers do know more than the professionals? Is that all of them? Or just the ones you agree with?

[/quote]

You are presuming a lot here, and not really comprehending what I am saying.

My point is not that anyone in particular is right or wrong, or that I agree with anyone in this thread. It is simply that it is perfectly possible for someone outside of a given field of expertise to make accurate criticisms of that field. It doesn''t neccessarily mean that they always will be right, or even that they often will, it just means that the possibility is not precluded.

Saying "you''re not an X so you can''t talk about X" is just a way to try to shut down discussion without actually making any effort to deal with the content of the argument.

I don''t agree with everything Foghorn is saying but I think he''s a good poster who makes some interesting points and more importantly, actually tries to back them up with facts and evidence.

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Sorry Nutty,just invaded this thread by mistake.

You usually respond to something with a question, so what do you think the ''professionals, bring to the table.

I assume the candlestick makers, et al, in your view, should bow to the socialists who have absolutely no idea about how to create a profit but have been born with a silver spoon in their mouths.

Dont bother to reply to me mate, cos I aint interested as I''m desperately trying to create a profit. Not enough sales, not enough profit trying to keep head above water.

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[quote user="Bury Yellow"]Sorry Nutty,just invaded this thread by mistake. You usually respond to something with a question, so what do you think the ''professionals, bring to the table. I assume the candlestick makers, et al, in your view, should bow to the socialists who have absolutely no idea about how to create a profit but have been born with a silver spoon in their mouths. Dont bother to reply to me mate, cos I aint interested as I''m desperately trying to create a profit. Not enough sales, not enough profit trying to keep head above water.[/quote]

 

Well well.. this sums it up for me. No hope of a discussion. Just a personal vendetta. Where on earth do  all the silver spoon and socialist references come from?

 

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

 Well well.. this sums it up for me. No hope of a discussion. Just a personal vendetta. Where on earth do  all the silver spoon and socialist references come from?

 [/quote]

In the end Hughton has everything in his favour for the last 5 games, a near fully fit squad, 3 home games against mediocre opposition, and an away game against the worst form side in the division.  We just need to be safe before our trip to the Etihad!

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

 Well well.. this sums it up for me. No hope of a discussion. Just a personal vendetta. Where on earth do  all the silver spoon and socialist references come from?

 [/quote]


In the end Hughton has everything in his favour for the last 5 games, a near fully fit squad, 3 home games against mediocre opposition, and an away game against the worst form side in the division.  We just need to be safe before our trip to the Etihad!

[/quote]

 

Yes CJF. I wonder what Ted Heath and Harold Wilson had in their cutlery drawer...

 

 

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