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grefstad

Hughton, bad luck, and tactics - Arsenal game

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Yes, we were possibly cheated out of a good result.

Never a corner, and a dubious penalty, as Giroud is holding Kamara just as much as the opposite.

Yes, offside on Walcott possibly.

But then again, the freekick on KAmara was also dubious, looks like he tripped himself.

Now, on to HUghtons tactics.

Some of you claim Hughton´s tactics were spot on.

No they were not.

Arsenal were so poor, that almost any line up would have given the same result at HT.

Starting Holt is fair enough, give him a chance.

But he was not offering anything in the first half, and should definitively have been subbed after Turner scored, to bring on someone like Jackson or Bennett, who have got pace, and can be a threat on the counter.

Another reason to bring on Bennett or JAckson was to try to nullify the treat of Walcott who came on and gave Whittaker a torrid time.

Hughton did nothing here. Holt played the entire game, despite being a liability with his immobility.

Do not be fooled by the result and the harsh manner we lost out. Hughton did once again have a poor game from a managers point of view, with no good subs, and it was almost criminal to see Holt play the entire game after offering so little.

Hughton thought as long as it was 0-0, and then even better, 0-1, lets not touch anything, keep it as it is,

Completely poor management on 0-1 when Arsenal did their double sub with Podolski and Walcott.

When you got quick players on the bench, on a wet surface, and with a slow lump like Holt on top, you got to make a substitution.

Now, maybe the result would have been the same. But I am looking for intent, and a plan from Hughton. He has not shown it in this game either.

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What a load of rubbish. We were on the end of crucial harsh decisions yet again, and deserved more away at a Champs League side. We had a plan that so nearly worked, to be such a twot about it really is pathetic.

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[quote user="Branston Pickle"]What a load of rubbish. We were on the end of crucial harsh decisions yet again, and deserved more away at a Champs League side. We had a plan that so nearly worked, to be such a twot about it really is pathetic.[/quote]

Read my post.

So you think Holt was worthy of playing the entire game?

He was brilliant wasnt he?

Hughton did a fab job, masterminding Arsenals poor first half?

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You know, on the stream I was watching I think I saw Hughton tell the linesman it was a penalty.  I also saw him tie Holt''s laces together and hit Snodgrass on the shin with a claw hammer.

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Nothing wrong with the tactics, or the team he put put out. Pi55-poor officiating cost us 3 points that would have meant safety today.

Bennett is never going to ''nullify'' Walcott - he isn''t a defender, and Walcott was never going to worry too much about having to defend.

As for Holt - you would have Jackson???? Really???? Much as I love Simo, there was no way he was going to be able to have enough presence to occupy their back line - not saying Holt was great, but having decided to play KK wide, he had little option.

The team he started with was a surprise, and dropping Garrido and Wes was interesting. I was also pleased to see Fox coming on.

I am pretty sure that he any combination of our squad that he might have played at any point would have met with your disapproval...because anything he does seems to have that outcome regardless...

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Almost annoying as bad officials is that when a top team fails against a team like us people always say "but they were poor".

Well today arse had most of the possession and chances but if not for bad officials they would have deservedly been beaten by us. That''s what football is about.

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[quote user="grefstad"]Yes, we were possibly cheated out of a good result.

Never a corner, and a dubious penalty, as Giroud is holding Kamara just as much as the opposite.

Yes, offside on Walcott possibly.

But then again, the freekick on KAmara was also dubious, looks like he tripped himself.

Now, on to HUghtons tactics.

Some of you claim Hughton´s tactics were spot on.

No they were not.

Arsenal were so poor, that almost any line up would have given the same result at HT.

Starting Holt is fair enough, give him a chance.

But he was not offering anything in the first half, and should definitively have been subbed after Turner scored, to bring on someone like Jackson or Bennett, who have got pace, and can be a threat on the counter.

Another reason to bring on Bennett or JAckson was to try to nullify the treat of Walcott who came on and gave Whittaker a torrid time.

Hughton did nothing here. Holt played the entire game, despite being a liability with his immobility.

Do not be fooled by the result and the harsh manner we lost out. Hughton did once again have a poor game from a managers point of view, with no good subs, and it was almost criminal to see Holt play the entire game after offering so little.

Hughton thought as long as it was 0-0, and then even better, 0-1, lets not touch anything, keep it as it is,

Completely poor management on 0-1 when Arsenal did their double sub with Podolski and Walcott.

When you got quick players on the bench, on a wet surface, and with a slow lump like Holt on top, you got to make a substitution.

Now, maybe the result would have been the same. But I am looking for intent, and a plan from Hughton. He has not shown it in this game either.[/quote]Has it not occurred to you that Hughton''s tactics are why Arsenal were so poor in the first half? They had a lot of the ball but our organised defence and midfield meant they struggled to make it count for anything.

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Grefstad said:

"Hughton did a fab job, masterminding Arsenals poor first half?"

Actually that''s a pretty good summary of what Wenger said on Sky. Perhaps you''re not as unknowing as we all think!!

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Agree entirely with grefstad. Saw the live stream and we were absolutely dreadful against a team who for some reason did not seem bothered. We just could not string a pass together and the times we gave the ball away when under no pressure. A well taken goal but otherwise we had about one shot in the whole match.

You could argue that our tactics - or more precisely lack of tactics - may have contributed to the lack of goals from the Gunners, but our current style of play is going to lead to a real nailbiting end to the season. I will never know why Holt and Kamara were not substituted at half time albeit that the service they received was non-existent.

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From what I saw on the live coverage over here, Arsenal were "poor" as a direct result of the formation and tactics deployed by CH....I was watching ith a couple of Arsenal fans and they both agreed with that view and were embarrassed by the decisions too........................... 

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Being 1-0 up away at one of the best teams certainly in the division if not in Europe in the 85th minute suggests pretty good tactics to me. Two poor decisions cost us. Has the ref and linesman made correct decisions, Hughton would have just taken the three points which as good as ensured our survival away at Arsenal. I wouldn''t have been complaining then and, as it was the officials not Hughton who changed things in the last 5 minutes, I won''t be complaining now either. Unlucky today, but I wasn''t expecting anything from the game anyway so won''t get too suicidal just yet!

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It does make me laugh the way that some posters believe that Arsenal''s poor performance had nothing to do with us. How about the fact that our 5 man midfield worked an absolute treat, preventing Arsenal from finding the space they thrive in?

I thought tactically we got it absolutely spot on, and would have got 3 magnificent points but for an awful piece of linesmanship.

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No no Beefy, you must realise that Arsenal were poor and because of our (lack of) ''tactics'' we were unable to take advantage. (I mean it isnt as if they are on a run of 6 wins in 7, or whatever). That has to be it, it is the only thing that fits the Hughton is not up to it mantra.

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It''s just as bad watching the match again on MOTD as it was at the Emirates. Really pleased though that we got two strikers in the team, Whittaker back and Tettey. Howson also played well.

We have to take this positivity into Stoke and Reading.

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It really was a solid, backs to the wall display. This is what Hughton does best in my view - our record and performances against the top sides, Liverpool apart, have been excellent this year - 3pts v Man Utd and Arsenal, 2pts v Spurs, 4pts v Everton - our set up is very effective at nullifying the better sides.

I must say that I was disappointed with Holt though. It makes a mockery of the overwhelming number of posters and fans saying that he should have been in ahead of Kei in the last few games. He definitely looks to be winding down and I sense a transfer in the summer is on the cards. We need to add another 2 forwards to the RVW signing in my view, and I don''t think KK should be one of them.

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Ha, I se.

So Hughtons brilliant tactics have given us one win in the last 17?

Ave it ever crossed your minds that Arsenal actually were poor on the day, not nescessarily due to Hoots tactis?

I know my football, and despite leading until 85th min , Norwich did not play a particularly good game.

And to my original point, Hughton should have subbed Holt after the first half, whatever the score was. He contributed nothing, and once again had a stinker.

Why Elliot was never introduced when we were 1-0 up to exploit on the counter is really beyond me.

Ledning at Arsenal, and they are getting at s, you want pace on top to hit on the break. Instead Holt, the sulky pensioneer, played 96 mins.

Terrible, and I would say that even if we had won 1-0

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[quote user="killiecanary"]I was also pleased to see Fox coming on.[/quote]Just a damn shame that he was completely anonymous for the entire time he was on the pitch and offered nothing either defensively or going forwards to justify even a place warming the bench.What on earth has happened to the Fox we had just over a year ago???

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="killiecanary"]I was also pleased to see Fox coming on.[/quote]Just a damn shame that he was completely anonymous for the entire time he was on the pitch and offered nothing either defensively or going forwards to justify even a place warming the bench.What on earth has happened to the Fox we had just over a year ago???[/quote]Coming in from cold for five minutes in a Defensive Midfield position isn''t really going to let you stamp your authority on any game.  Even Yaya Toure would struggle to look good.

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"]What on earth has happened to the Fox we had just over a year ago???[/quote]A bit harsh given he has played 7 minutes premiership football this season. I thought E Bennett was a tad unlucky as well, plays his best game all season last weekend setting up both goals with a man of the match display, and follows it up with 0 minutes yesterday.

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I agree with you on both of these points. As Chops says you can''t expect to come into a game like that with so little involvement recently. I was glad to see him mainly because I was worried Hughton would never involve him again! I do like Fox, or maybe I should say the way Fox played last season, but wouldn''t have expected fireworks frm him yesterday.

Benno''s omission I think was just horses for courses. Probably back in for Reading?

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[quote user="grefstad"]Ha, I se.

So Hughtons brilliant tactics have given us one win in the last 17?

Ave it ever crossed your minds that Arsenal actually were poor on the day, not nescessarily due to Hoots tactis?

I know my football, and despite leading until 85th min , Norwich did not play a particularly good game.

And to my original point, Hughton should have subbed Holt after the first half, whatever the score was. He contributed nothing, and once again had a stinker.

Why Elliot was never introduced when we were 1-0 up to exploit on the counter is really beyond me.

Ledning at Arsenal, and they are getting at s, you want pace on top to hit on the break. Instead Holt, the sulky pensioneer, played 96 mins.

Terrible, and I would say that even if we had won 1-0[/quote]

Again, you know your football apparently. So does Wenger. But you''re right and he''s wrong. Is that it?

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Also, if Hughton had subbed when we were winning and then we had lost, he''d have been slaughtered on here.

Truly damned if does and damned if he doesn''t for those who want to find fault.

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we had the benefit of a couple of decisions and had a couple go against us - all with goal implications.

We put in a valiant effort but the better team won. The key games remain the next 4 and we are more than good enough to get what we need.

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="Indy_Bones"]What on earth has happened to the Fox we had just over a year ago???[/quote]A bit harsh given he has played 7 minutes premiership football this season. I thought E Bennett was a tad unlucky as well, plays his best game all season last weekend setting up both goals with a man of the match display, and follows it up with 0 minutes yesterday.[/quote]It wasn''t meant in a nasty way CJF, but in truth the Fox we all recognise would have been forcing his way into this team over the season and that simply hasn''t happened.I didn''t expect him to come on, after having been given so little game time and to be a world beater, but neither did I expect him to totally disappear from view the entire time and not even make a minor case to justify a longer run out.The other sad truth is that Fox doesn''t offer as much strength defensively as the likes of Johnson and Tettey and when Hughton is so focused on being ''solid'' wherever possible, then his creativity and passing is sacrificed to acheive this. It doesn''t mean that the other players can''t pass or haven''t done a good job, it''s simply a different job than what Fox would do.Staying up is the key factor overall, but going forwards I really don''t like the change in the style of play we''ve had over the season, if we carry on in this vein then soon it will become like watching Stoke, but hopefully the RVW signing and others over the summer will enable Hughton to add a bit more spice into our play...

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One thing the game did nake glaringly obvious was the sheer gap in ability between the average Arsenal player & ours. Every time we tried to do anything ''clever'' we failed, & they came straight back at us.

It is certain Hughton knows this, & the signing of RVW is a portent of things to come; his signings so far have been a step up from what we had, but we do need more class in the creative/attacking areas.

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Selection - good generally, - not sure about Holt, but otherwise everyone CH selected played well. I was not surprised that Garrido was given a rest, even if he was replaced by a right-footed right back.

Tactics - good - we seemed to be much more  at the Arsenal players, not giving them time for their relaxed passing game.

Performances - some very good ones, including Bunn, Turner, Bassong, Howson, Whittaker

Luck - (if this is what you call officials who were incompetent, or worse). We have to admit that Arsenal had better chances, and clipped the woodwork at least twice. If we didn''t match them, we had our moments. One or two lucky rebounds and 50;50 tackles seemed to go their way. The greatest stroke of luck must surely be the assistant''s vision - poor at times - he needs Specsavers, but over 4-50 yards he saw better than the ref did over 10 yards. It must have been a lucky fluke, because thereafter he missed the shirt pulling for their third goal, and somehow saw Snoddy kick a ball out of touch as he was pushed over the line.

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