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Jacko

What constitutes a big club?

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http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/sleeping-giant-or-minnow-how-do-you-measure-a-clubs-size-8570655.html

I thought I would change the subject away from the current relegation battle. I have just seen this article in the Independent. It has tried (badly in my opinion) to tackle the old riddle of club and their "bigness" relative to other clubs. Personally I think that it doesn''t really matter that much these days. Certain clubs like Man Utd and Arsenal inhabit a different world to most clubs in England. I would argue a lot of other clubs are pretty much evenly matched.

The gulf between the Premiership and the Football League essentially means that you either have money or you don''t and that''s the key difference. I would be interested to see what other people think constitutes a big club? Where would you rank Norwich City on that Independent list?

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Norwich are a club with vast potential given its geographic location and the failure of Cambirdge to do anything in recent years meaning we have a large catchment area. our catchment area cover around 4 million people which is pretty low when compared to other clubs but we have little competition. Under the right circumstances we could be a big club. We would need a 35-40k ground for this to happen for a start as well as continued stay in the BLP. getting back to the main point I would say it terms of overall size going on average crowds and history we are probably about 25th

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[quote user="Stringers army"]Throw in the three eufa cup campaigns we never had then that would boost our status.
[/quote]

 

Thanks to the Iron Lady...

 

May she rust in peace.

 

 

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Without wanting to open up a massive debate, The FA imposed the initial ban but it was always certain that UEFA would also impose a ban and it was this ban (not the FAs ban) that lasted for years.

Regarding the OP''s question, not sure how I would define a big club but in this day and age it must be a combination of wealth and worldwide support. I would put us low to mid 20s on the list but longevity in the EPL will only lift us up that list.

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It probably would open a massive debate but Norwich did nothing to warrant being banned from Europe whether it be by politicians, the FA or UEFA. In fact those people mentioned should have done everything in their power to make sure Norwich did play in europe. I hope your neighbour never sets fire to his house with you getting done for arson...

 

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

It probably would open a massive debate but Norwich did nothing to warrant being banned from Europe whether it be by politicians, the FA or UEFA. In fact those people mentioned should have done everything in their power to make sure Norwich did play in europe. I hope your neighbour never sets fire to his house with you getting done for arson...

[/quote]

It was a problem for the whole of football.  A stand had to be made as things were plainly out of control.   Going to a football match was more like a battle, or at least being fearful of a battle.  Norwich has never been that bad, thankfully, but you can''t blame other people all the time.  It was a society problem which was showing itself up in football and had to be sorted.  You couldn''t separate out clubs.  It was heavy handed, but necessary. 

Having seats at stadiums and pricing out the real down and outs may have affected the long term evolution of watching football, but at least most of the time you feel safe going to matches these days.

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The lower the number, the bigger and the further the ball will travel.  Also, "W" for Wood tends to be bigger than "I" for Iron though some would argue that in the right hands a 1 Iron is bigger than a 5 Wood.

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

It probably would open a massive debate but Norwich did nothing to warrant being banned from Europe whether it be by politicians, the FA or UEFA. In fact those people mentioned should have done everything in their power to make sure Norwich did play in europe. I hope your neighbour never sets fire to his house with you getting done for arson...

[/quote]


It was a problem for the whole of football.  A stand had to be made as things were plainly out of control.   Going to a football match was more like a battle, or at least being fearful of a battle.  Norwich has never been that bad, thankfully, but you can''t blame other people all the time.  It was a society problem which was showing itself up in football and had to be sorted.  You couldn''t separate out clubs.  It was heavy handed, but necessary. 

Having seats at stadiums and pricing out the real down and outs may have affected the long term evolution of watching football, but at least most of the time you feel safe going to matches these days.



[/quote]

 

So what''s all that got to do with Norwich playing in Europe?

 

 

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I think fanbase, history and money are obviously the big factors. At present I would regard Man Utd, Arsenal, Everton, Spurs, Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool as the top flight "fixtures." There would be some merit in including Aston Villa and Newcastle but for their current plight.

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Sheffield Wednesday were always a big club but are they now? Is there such a thing as a sleeping giant? Are Leeds a big club?

 

 

 

 

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I am not sure where I stand on Leeds. Putting the banter about signing their players to one side, they have spent 17 years of the last 30 outside of the top flight.

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I never said I was happy about us missing out numerous times as a result but surely the anger should be pointed at the fans of the clubs that created and perpetuated the problem in the first place? It could be argued that the FA imposing the ban initially was an attempt to mitigate the subsequent actions taken by UEFA (not successfully in hindsight).

I completely understand the frustration of missing out because of someone else, but I''m not sure your analogy was warranted. As a fan, I was equally affected by the ban, so I''m not sure why you''ve tried to assume some sort of moral high ground there. The facts are the facts and I was responding to your claim that a specific person was responsible when it was legions of so called fans and their persistently poor behaviour both domestically and internationally that led to the ban.

Apologies to the OP. I did not mean to derail the topic.

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[quote user="Keckers"]I never said I was happy about us missing out numerous times as a result but surely the anger should be pointed at the fans of the clubs that created and perpetuated the problem in the first place? It could be argued that the FA imposing the ban initially was an attempt to mitigate the subsequent actions taken by UEFA (not successfully in hindsight). I completely understand the frustration of missing out because of someone else, but I''m not sure your analogy was warranted. As a fan, I was equally affected by the ban, so I''m not sure why you''ve tried to assume some sort of moral high ground there. The facts are the facts and I was responding to your claim that a specific person was responsible when it was legions of so called fans and their persistently poor behaviour both domestically and internationally that led to the ban. Apologies to the OP. I did not mean to derail the topic.[/quote]

 

I think the ban was just part of the whole 80s political stance that classed all travelling football fans as hooligans. I didn''t enjoy being treated like that and I''m sure you didn''t either. But that''s what the authorities thought. If you think differently then ask yourself why 96 innocent people were dying in a football stadium and authorities refused to do anything to stop it. Yes refused. I''m not taking any moral high ground. I haven''t got anything to take it over. If I and others had done more to stop this maybe those people would still be alive. But the bottom line is that Thatcher waged war on all travelling fans and not just the violent ones. It was Thatcher and her policing. The people who should have been looking after our interests, specifically the FA, were too weak to stand up and be counted. Now you can say legions if you like but they were the minority. Did you travel away in the early 80s? Were you and your companions hooligans? I doubt you or your companions were hooligans. Me and my compainions weren''t either. I do know some who were but they no longer travel to games. So were they the football club''s hooligans or society''s hooligans?

 

Now can a big club become a small club? Are we now a bigger club than Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday? What about Forest? I reckon Forest were a big club for about 10 years but in reality I put them on a par with us.

 

 

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Large global fanbase, Big capacity ground, History, Money, An instantly recognisable shirt.

But the one thing all ''big'' clubs past and present have in common......Trophies.

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How long do you reckon the trophies are valid Ketts? It''s the old history chestnut that fans of "fallen giants" cling to. Should the relevance of a trophy have an expiry date?

 

 

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Good question. Maybe its the ''big'' clubs who have a track record of sustained trophy success.

But, you are only as good as your last game or season. So I guess it has to be in the living memory of a good proportion of football fans.

Maybe the answer is as variable as each fan who gives an opinion, how they choose to measure it - and the bias which comes with it.

So dusty or shiney, it seems trophies are the one thing most fans will remember....and cling on to.

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What constitutes a big club?

 

One that satisfies the criterea for being a big club.   And that''s the problem - what IS the criterea these days?   I dunno!   Could be a big club is one that can borrow more money or is allowed greater financial credit.   Or one that can pack out it''s large stadium week in week out.   Or are the big clubs defined by the media - which one gets the most air time and occupies the most space in the back pages?   It''s a collection of things really.

 

All things are pretty relative.   A bit like the old TW3 sketch - "I look up to him because he''s middle class but .... etc".   I don''t consider Norwich as a small club by any means.   Compared to Tranmere they are ******* massive!!!  

 

 

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Exactly my thought Nutty. When do a club''s trophies stop being relevant? Huddersfield Town won the League 3 times in a row in the 30s. A wonderful achievement but surely no longer really relevant.

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I think basically there are around 7 or 8 clubs who don''t seem to get relegated from the Premiership (or very rarely do). Then a cluster of about 20 or more clubs vying to be part of that group below. I would put Norwich in the lower middle part of that. Our natural level should probably be yo-yoing between the Prem and Championship.

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]Not sure why Bolton make the top 20, an insignificant club.  And surprised to see Southampton outside of it.  If we can stay up a few years I am sure we would be more deserving than Bolton, Derby, Sheff Utd or Blackburn....[/quote]Back when footballers had sensible names like Billy and Bertie, Bolton won a number of FA Cups, they also have a record home attendance just shy of 70,000.

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At least I can remember 1985 :)

 

I grew up thinking Sheffield Wednesday were a far bigger club than us. They were the first team I saw us play and they beat us 3-1 at CR. (We''d knocked out Man U at OT in the previous round.) Wendy had been league champions and cup winners a few times many years before but were an established top tier club and their stadium had been used in the 1966 world cup finals and also for fa cup semi finals.

 

I wonder if they have passed their expiry date now?

 

 

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[quote user="Ketts Rebel"]

Maybe you have made it as a big club, when many people who have never visited your ground, or even your country, buy your shirt?

 

[/quote]

 

Yes!!!!! Thand God for XXL...

 

Thanks to his love of canary yellow and Sutchy we are now a big club[Y]

 

 

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