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a1canary

Playing for time in the corner

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I thought this was a bit sad on Saturday to be honest. We were getting in to strong positions to break on them and made no attempt to get a nerve soothing third goal which i think we could easily have got if we had tried. Instead we had Kamara, Holt, and others ambling in to the corner and trying to run the clock down. I know we should be used to this by now and the response is "well what if they''d have gone down the other end and scored" but i just think it''s such a negative tactic that ooozes a lack of confidence/belief. Plus it just shows the opposition that you''re scared of them getting the ball and gives them an extra boost and incentive to score themselves. Sure if there''s only seconds to go but winning a corner and then knocking it between each other around the quadrant is just lame. And yes, goals can come from opposition corners but that''s Man U and Arsenal, not Reading!

I can''t help but contrast with when Villa were two up and away at Stoke, and when the opportunity to break came right at the end of the game FOUR players went charging up the pitch and they were 4 on 2 and got the third goal. Call it Kamikaze but no-one can say they would''t seriously rather one player broke alone and went and stood on the ball in the quadrant!

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What if they''d broke, went for goal, even 4 on 2 (very unlikely with our players, even with the other team desperate to equalise), the GK saved it, or it went out for a goal kick, keep lumped it up the pitch quickly and they scored?

Ok, that can happen in the corner, but Holt and Kamara were probably more confident they''d keep the ball in the corner for longer than they were confident about scoring.

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Whilst in principal I agree with you, I will counter with :-Likely Premiership safetyAbout 70 million quid

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Uhrm, i think you''ll find that with 5 minutes left in probably the most important game of the season with a slender one goal lead, 99% of teams would do the same. To complain about this is literally just trying to find something to complain about and nothing more.

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I thought it was superb play, especially so from Holt.

 

Howson and Johnson were absolutely knackered in midfield after putting in a huge effort and with Tettey struggling to do anything other than give the ball away we needed to do what we could to kill the game off.

 

 

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 "If we''d tried" - Come on A1 that is a bit invidious.

I would call it ''professional'' or whatever, and sound football, that you would see, even the World''s best teams do.

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While Id love to see us steam roller them into the ground with a 3rd, but reading had their tails up and it would have been a disaster if they had nicked a goal at the end because we had pushed forward. Its football and stranger things have happened so frankly the points were just too important to do anything but try and run the clock down. We can all look forward to better football next season and more goals from RVW, but for now, do whats gotta be done to get over that finish line!

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At last A1 someone who agrees with me, my family & I were having this conversation on the way home in the car, Paddy Mcveigh chunttering on about how Holt showed why he is captain leading by example by running the ball into the corners, what a brilliant professional etc etc.....Load of old tosh in my book. We should have been looking to put Reading to the sword & finish them off, if we are not able to beat them without resorting to time wasting tactics then we don''t deserve to win. I fully accept teams want to slow the game down & take a few seconds here & there, but there are other less negative ways of doing it. Why has this never been seen by the powers that be as time wasting I will never know....Stop it I hate it!!!!!!

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Remember Holt doing this to great effect away at Forest the year we were promoted from the Championship. Its the sensible thing to do in added time, run the clock down and do not give the ball away cheaply at all costs, very disciplined if you ask me.

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I don''t care who we are playing, wether it is Reading or Barcelona, it was INJURY TIME. If it was in the 35th minute I would wholeheartedly agree

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Fair point Morty - guess we have to put up with it for those reasons but i think it gives off all the wrong messages and does nothing for the confidence of the forward players.

Someone says we haven''t got the players to be confident of breaking up pitch and scoring, but we do. Imagine Bennett, Snodgrass, Kamara and Holt all breaking 4 on 2 and a couple of passes before one of them belts it in the net. Imagine the confidence boost that gives the team and those players? Goals only come with confidence. This is what we learnt from Lambert and although his approach has brought it''s own problems at the other end of the pitch, you only have to look at the kind of goals Villa have scored to see how it pays off at that end of the pitch. Of course it may be unfair just to look at yesterday''s game because there was particular pressure on it and that''s the first game i''ve watched live since Wigan and as i''ve said elsewhere, the contrast we striking!

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[quote user="a1canary"]I thought this was a bit sad on Saturday to be honest. We were getting in to strong positions to break on them and made no attempt to get a nerve soothing third goal which i think we could easily have got if we had tried. Instead we had Kamara, Holt, and others ambling in to the corner and trying to run the clock down. I know we should be used to this by now and the response is "well what if they''d have gone down the other end and scored" but i just think it''s such a negative tactic that ooozes a lack of confidence/belief. Plus it just shows the opposition that you''re scared of them getting the ball and gives them an extra boost and incentive to score themselves. Sure if there''s only seconds to go but winning a corner and then knocking it between each other around the quadrant is just lame. And yes, goals can come from opposition corners but that''s Man U and Arsenal, not Reading!

I can''t help but contrast with when Villa were two up and away at Stoke, and when the opportunity to break came right at the end of the game FOUR players went charging up the pitch and they were 4 on 2 and got the third goal. Call it Kamikaze but no-one can say they would''t seriously rather one player broke alone and went and stood on the ball in the quadrant![/quote]I''ve highlighted the key difference in both the scenarios you''ve mentioned above which completely invalidates your argument. See if you can spot it, and explain why this makes such a key difference a potential goal if the opposition scores.One goal up against Reading and in stoppage time, every other team in the league would have done the same thing. Every single one.

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I should imagine 3 points and likely Premiership football next season does quite a lot for the players confidence[;)]

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Its something I loathe too - but we got the win and that is ALL that matters...

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With a few minutes to go it makes sense to hold onto the ball and run the clock down, just as all good professional sides would do. If we had given away possession to Reading they could have broken away and scored, thus effectively relegating us as a win and 3 points on Saturday was absolutely essential. Winning is what matters, not how many goals you win by.

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[quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"][quote user="a1canary"]I can''t help but contrast with when Villa were two up and away at Stoke, and when the opportunity to break came right at the end of the game FOUR players went charging up the pitch and they were 4 on 2 and got the third goal. [/quote]I''ve highlighted the key difference in both the scenarios you''ve mentioned above which completely invalidates your argument. See if you can spot it, and explain why this makes such a key difference a potential goal if the opposition scores.One goal up against Reading and in stoppage time, every other team in the league would have done the same thing. Every single one.[/quote][Y]

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[quote user="Bunns Armpit"].....Why has this never been seen by the powers that be as time wasting I will never know....Stop it I hate it!!!!!![/quote]It''s not time wasting as the ball''s in play.Not pretty I agree but with what was at stake highly commendable.

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[quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"][quote user="a1canary"]I thought this was a bit sad on Saturday to be honest. We were getting in to strong positions to break on them and made no attempt to get a nerve soothing third goal which i think we could easily have got if we had tried. Instead we had Kamara, Holt, and others ambling in to the corner and trying to run the clock down. I know we should be used to this by now and the response is "well what if they''d have gone down the other end and scored" but i just think it''s such a negative tactic that ooozes a lack of confidence/belief. Plus it just shows the opposition that you''re scared of them getting the ball and gives them an extra boost and incentive to score themselves. Sure if there''s only seconds to go but winning a corner and then knocking it between each other around the quadrant is just lame. And yes, goals can come from opposition corners but that''s Man U and Arsenal, not Reading!

I can''t help but contrast with when Villa were two up and away at Stoke, and when the opportunity to break came right at the end of the game FOUR players went charging up the pitch and they were 4 on 2 and got the third goal. Call it Kamikaze but no-one can say they would''t seriously rather one player broke alone and went and stood on the ball in the quadrant![/quote]I''ve highlighted the key difference in both the scenarios you''ve mentioned above which completely invalidates your argument. See if you can spot it, and explain why this makes such a key difference a potential goal if the opposition scores.One goal up against Reading and in stoppage time, every other team in the league would have done the same thing. Every single one.[/quote]To be fair Villa we''re only 2-1 up when they broke to score the third goal. Although it all worked out well for Villa in the end I bet Paul Lambert was having kittens when they did it.

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[quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"][quote user="a1canary"]I thought this was a bit sad on Saturday to be honest. We were getting in to strong positions to break on them and made no attempt to get a nerve soothing third goal which i think we could easily have got if we had tried. Instead we had Kamara, Holt, and others ambling in to the corner and trying to run the clock down. I know we should be used to this by now and the response is "well what if they''d have gone down the other end and scored" but i just think it''s such a negative tactic that ooozes a lack of confidence/belief. Plus it just shows the opposition that you''re scared of them getting the ball and gives them an extra boost and incentive to score themselves. Sure if there''s only seconds to go but winning a corner and then knocking it between each other around the quadrant is just lame. And yes, goals can come from opposition corners but that''s Man U and Arsenal, not Reading!

I can''t help but contrast with when Villa were two up and away at Stoke, and when the opportunity to break came right at the end of the game FOUR players went charging up the pitch and they were 4 on 2 and got the third goal. Call it Kamikaze but no-one can say they would''t seriously rather one player broke alone and went and stood on the ball in the quadrant![/quote]I''ve highlighted the key difference in both the scenarios you''ve mentioned above which completely invalidates your argument. See if you can spot it, and explain why this makes such a key difference a potential goal if the opposition scores.One goal up against Reading and in stoppage time, every other team in the league would have done the same thing. Every single one.[/quote]

Er, not really - i ''mistyped'' there, they were 2-1 up at the time. So if you read Stoke for Reading, they were in the same scenario and did the opposite. So if you must be aggressive an talk of "invalidating" someones point, it''s yours that''s "invalid", not mine.

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I wasn''t paying a huge amount of attention to the Stoke v Villa game, but I would imagine Stoke were desperate for a winning goal and threw almost everyone forward.  I didn''t see Reading throwing everybody forward on Saturday so we didn''t have the same space or size of gaps to exploit.To a point, I can see the annoyance but the win was all that counted on Saturday and those three points are so important I wouldn''t really have cared if we''d scored the winner from a player deliberately punching the ball into the net from an offside position.

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[quote user="Mister Chops"]I wasn''t paying a huge amount of attention to the Stoke v Villa game, but I would imagine Stoke were desperate for a winning goal and threw almost everyone forward.  I didn''t see Reading throwing everybody forward on Saturday so we didn''t have the same space or size of gaps to exploit.To a point, I can see the annoyance but the win was all that counted on Saturday and those three points are so important I wouldn''t really have cared if we''d scored the winner from a player deliberately punching the ball into the net from an offside position. [/quote]They did Chops, Villa broke and had 4 against 2.

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[quote user="ncfcstar"][quote user="Mister Chops"]I wasn''t paying a huge amount of attention to the Stoke v Villa game, but I would imagine Stoke were desperate for a winning goal and threw almost everyone forward.  I didn''t see Reading throwing everybody forward on Saturday so we didn''t have the same space or size of gaps to exploit.To a point, I can see the annoyance but the win was all that counted on Saturday and those three points are so important I wouldn''t really have cared if we''d scored the winner from a player deliberately punching the ball into the net from an offside position. [/quote]They did Chops, Villa broke and had 4 against 2.[/quote]Cheers.  Did Reading throw everyone forward in a similar way?  I ask only because we hit the ball into channels, rather than straight through the middle, which suggests a few Reading players stayed back.

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As i''ve said, i can see the case for it (it wasn''t only in stoppage time incidentally) and as i''ve also said "fair enough" in the circumstances of the game. I just don''t like to see it that blatantly and don''t think it sends the right message to team, fans or opposition. Neither do EVERY OTHER team do the same thing as others have said. But hopefully next season we won''t find ourselves in a position to be needing to do it again.

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3 points on Sat were just too important. It''s a bit different breaking 4 on 2 when you should probably score, so go for it to put the game to bed. The positions we were in on Sat were completely different with Reading well organised and back in numbers. If we''d knocked a cross in there was a high chance the defence would have won it and in seconds they''d have knocked the ball long to put us under pressure.

By keeping the ball together in the corner Kei and Holt did as effective a job of running down the clock as I can ever remember seeing. How often have we been on the other end where we can''t get the ball away and end up giving away a soft free kick?

We can''t have it both ways. If we want to be in the Prem we have to accept our players will be using tactics like this to get the win like other Prem teams would. It''s within the rules and it may not be pretty but it''s justified in a vital game.

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="ncfcstar"][quote user="Mister Chops"]I wasn''t paying a huge amount of attention to the Stoke v Villa game, but I would imagine Stoke were desperate for a winning goal and threw almost everyone forward.  I didn''t see Reading throwing everybody forward on Saturday so we didn''t have the same space or size of gaps to exploit.To a point, I can see the annoyance but the win was all that counted on Saturday and those three points are so important I wouldn''t really have cared if we''d scored the winner from a player deliberately punching the ball into the net from an offside position. [/quote]They did Chops, Villa broke and had 4 against 2.[/quote]Cheers.  Did Reading throw everyone forward in a similar way?  I ask only because we hit the ball into channels, rather than straight through the middle, which suggests a few Reading players stayed back.[/quote]No they didn''t, it was a lot more cramped in the middle of the pitch, and whilst they weren''t causing many problems they were quite controlled on the ball.  Getting the ball into the corner was the right thing to do, as you say their defence wasn''t bombing forward so it made sense.

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[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="Bunns Armpit"].....Why has this never been seen by the powers that be as time wasting I will never know....Stop it I hate it!!!!!![/quote]It''s not time wasting as the ball''s in play.Not pretty I agree but with what was at stake highly commendable.[/quote]

Exactly. Imsorry but what the fu (k are you talking about? How can the ''powers that be'' stop a team keeping possession?

I cant work out if this thread is a wind up or not.

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