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Hootens yarmy

Time to step back and look at what the club has achieved...

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I some how stumbled across this article today and it made me realise how far we have progressed in the last 4 years. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/may/03/charlton-athletic-norwich-city-championship-relegationIn 2009 we were hoping to sign David Mooney permanently to help us get back into the Championship whereas we now we have the prospect of a £8.5million + striker leading the line next season. Although I have had my fair share of moans and groans this season you really have to step back and look back on what we have achieved. We are standing on the verge of a large tv revenue, the prospect of expanding the stadium, financial security and our 3rd season in the Premier League.The last two home games should be a chance to celebrate where we are at and to give the team that final push over the line...

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Very good post. I''ve had my fair share of moans too, as many of you have spotted.

To be open and honest, I predicted we wouldn''t win again this season and that we would finish on 37 points. I was wrong.

Gill, Mooney, Lee - these names make me shudder in remembering the bad times at the club. Times when I just turned up to the ground knowing we would struggle under a manager who, lets face it, was never a manager but just got lucky under a board that completely lost the plot towards the end.

Nowadays we have a smart setup and whilst I have been very negative at times (in some cases rightly so), that''s only been born out of frustration for thinking we might go and blow all we have achieved.

A point or two should see Premiership safety secured and next season I''d like to see us both at Carrow Road and away from home having more confidence in ourselves that we''re capable of more than just playing for a point.

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[quote user="Hootens yarmy"]I some how stumbled across this article today and it made me realise how far we have progressed in the last 4 years. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/may/03/charlton-athletic-norwich-city-championship-relegationIn 2009 we were hoping to sign David Mooney permanently to help us get back into the Championship whereas we now we have the prospect of a £8.5million + striker leading the line next season. Although I have had my fair share of moans and groans this season you really have to step back and look back on what we have achieved. We are standing on the verge of a large tv revenue, the prospect of expanding the stadium, financial security and our 3rd season in the Premier League.The last two home games should be a chance to celebrate where we are at and to give the team that final push over the line...[/quote]

 

The problem is that the only feasible piece of expansion (a new tier on the City Stand) has been costed by the club at anywhere between £20m and £30m and so would put us heavily back into debt, while depriving the transfer budget of funds. It is hard to see, unless our ownership changes, when we could ever justify that.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Hootens yarmy"]I some how stumbled across this article today and it made me realise how far we have progressed in the last 4 years.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/may/03/charlton-athletic-norwich-city-championship-relegation

In 2009 we were hoping to sign David Mooney permanently to help us get back into the Championship whereas we now we have the prospect of a £8.5million + striker leading the line next season.

Although I have had my fair share of moans and groans this season you really have to step back and look back on what we have achieved. We are standing on the verge of a large tv revenue, the prospect of expanding the stadium, financial security and our 3rd season in the Premier League.

The last two home games should be a chance to celebrate where we are at and to give the team that final push over the line...
[/quote]

 

The problem is that the only feasible piece of expansion (a new tier on the City Stand) has been costed by the club at anywhere between £20m and £30m and so would put us heavily back into debt, while depriving the transfer budget of funds. It is hard to see, unless our ownership changes, when we could ever justify that.

[/quote]

 

Agreed. Stadium expansion would, in my opinion, be folly. The demand for a larger capacity is questionable at best, I''d much rather that the funds were spent on the squad for the time being.

 

 

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I was just thinking the exact same thing! weird!

I''d like to say a massive thank you in order of importance to: (imo)

1, David McNally - what a chief executive! without him absolutely none of this would have been possible. Doncaster was as wet as an otters pocket in comparison and Mr Mcnally has come in and shown this club who''s boss.

2, Chris Hughton - Not everyone agrees with your style of play but it''s effective and gets the job done with a squad still reeking of Paul Lambert. I can''t wait to see your style next season when you can have confidence in a committed strike force like Kamara and co.

3, Delia - Haven''t always agreed with your decisions but you''ve stuck with us through thick and thin and any genuine fan will be eternally grateful. (Being worth over 100 million quid must be pretty sweet though)

Even if we do get relegated which we won''t just think how far we have come since as you say the likes of Peter Grant, Glenn Roeder, Bryan Gunn and co.

It''s absolutely astonishing for any business let alone a football club the financial revenue we are talking about for Norfolk is mind boggling

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I think Alan Bowkett deserves a mention as I suspect he was instrumental in the negotiations with Axa which helped prevent administration during the league one season. Beyond that Lambert and Holt were the key actors enrolled in the drama following our relegation to league one.

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[quote user="Thisisbabyish"]I was just thinking the exact same thing! weird!

I''d like to say a massive thank you in order of importance to: (imo)

1, David McNally - what a chief executive! without him absolutely none of this would have been possible. Doncaster was as wet as an otters pocket in comparison and Mr Mcnally has come in and shown this club who''s boss.

2, Chris Hughton - Not everyone agrees with your style of play but it''s effective and gets the job done with a squad still reeking of Paul Lambert. I can''t wait to see your style next season when you can have confidence in a committed strike force like Kamara and co.

3, Delia - Haven''t always agreed with your decisions but you''ve stuck with us through thick and thin and any genuine fan will be eternally grateful. (Being worth over 100 million quid must be pretty sweet though)

Even if we do get relegated which we won''t just think how far we have come since as you say the likes of Peter Grant, Glenn Roeder, Bryan Gunn and co.

It''s absolutely astonishing for any business let alone a football club the financial revenue we are talking about for Norfolk is mind boggling[/quote]I imagine Delia would think so too, since a quick Google shows she''s worth something between £15-23 million. So in terms of what''s she''s put into the club, it dwarfs (sp?) Abramovich and Mansour. It would be interesting to see a table of investment as a proportion of an owner''s wealth, rather than the usual football rich lists.

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[quote user="Thisisbabyish"]I was just thinking the exact same thing! weird!

I''d like to say a massive thank you in order of importance to: (imo)

1, David McNally - what a chief executive! without him absolutely none of this would have been possible. Doncaster was as wet as an otters pocket in comparison and Mr Mcnally has come in and shown this club who''s boss.

2, Chris Hughton - Not everyone agrees with your style of play but it''s effective and gets the job done with a squad still reeking of Paul Lambert. I can''t wait to see your style next season when you can have confidence in a committed strike force like Kamara and co.

3, Delia - Haven''t always agreed with your decisions but you''ve stuck with us through thick and thin and any genuine fan will be eternally grateful. (Being worth over 100 million quid must be pretty sweet though)

Even if we do get relegated which we won''t just think how far we have come since as you say the likes of Peter Grant, Glenn Roeder, Bryan Gunn and co.

It''s absolutely astonishing for any business let alone a football club the financial revenue we are talking about for Norfolk is mind boggling[/quote]

Agree with everything you say there. I also find it mind-boggling that there are posters here who criticize McNally''s bonuses. I think he has proved to be worth every last penny and has to be one of the shrewdest operators in the Premiership. His RVW deal, for example, blindsided everybody.

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[quote user="Nuff Said"][quote user="Thisisbabyish"]I was just thinking the exact same thing! weird!

I''d like to say a massive thank you in order of importance to: (imo)

1, David McNally - what a chief executive! without him absolutely none of this would have been possible. Doncaster was as wet as an otters pocket in comparison and Mr Mcnally has come in and shown this club who''s boss.

2, Chris Hughton - Not everyone agrees with your style of play but it''s effective and gets the job done with a squad still reeking of Paul Lambert. I can''t wait to see your style next season when you can have confidence in a committed strike force like Kamara and co.

3, Delia - Haven''t always agreed with your decisions but you''ve stuck with us through thick and thin and any genuine fan will be eternally grateful. (Being worth over 100 million quid must be pretty sweet though)

Even if we do get relegated which we won''t just think how far we have come since as you say the likes of Peter Grant, Glenn Roeder, Bryan Gunn and co.

It''s absolutely astonishing for any business let alone a football club the financial revenue we are talking about for Norfolk is mind boggling[/quote]I imagine Delia would think so too, since a quick Google shows she''s worth something between £15-23 million. So in terms of what''s she''s put into the club, it dwarfs (sp?) Abramovich and Mansour. It would be interesting to see a table of investment as a proportion of an owner''s wealth, rather than the usual football rich lists.[/quote]What is being confused, I suspect, is the likely turnover next season (if we are in the Premier League, which has yet to be settled) of close to £100m with what Delia is worth, with or without her stake in NCFC. I don''t know whether the rich-list estimates include the value of that stake. If the official share price is now £100 and if she and MWJ sold all their joint stake for the full amount in a takeover that would bring in about £32.7m. But those are both big "ifs".

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No confusion

Delia is sitting on an asset with a potential income of around 90m a year thats not including the squad, the ground, the training complex oh and I''m sure she use to muck about in the kitchen a bit to the tune of around 20m!

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[quote user="Thisisbabyish"]No confusion

Delia is sitting on an asset with a potential income of around 90m a year thats not including the squad, the ground, the training complex oh and I''m sure she use to muck about in the kitchen a bit to the tune of around 20m![/quote]

 

But that doesn''t mean she is would realise anything like that amount from a sale, which is what matters. She owns just over half the club, not all of it.

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Ok so she owns half the squad what do you value that at?

She owns half of yellows what do you value that at?

She owns half of Delia''s what do you value that at?

She owns half of the stadium what do you value that at?

She owns half the land under the stadium what do you value that at?

She owns the half the car park land what do you value that at?

She owns half of Colney what do you value that at?

Add 45m of Sky TV revenue + her own fortune!

She owns half of RVW so there 4m for starters

- ???

answers on a post card boys and girls

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It all depends on what people are prepared to pay - not what people think it''s worth

 

Anyway, whatever DS value, it is not really anybody elses concern - as has been pointed out, as a percentage of their net worth, DS & MWJ have probably invested more than most of the investors in British football. As benefactors and true fans, I defy any other football club to come up with anyone on the same page, let alone any better!

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[quote user="Thisisbabyish"]Ok so she owns half the squad what do you value that at?

She owns half of yellows what do you value that at?

She owns half of Delia''s what do you value that at?

She owns half of the stadium what do you value that at?

She owns half the land under the stadium what do you value that at?

She owns the half the car park land what do you value that at?

She owns half of Colney what do you value that at?

Add 45m of Sky TV revenue + her own fortune!

She owns half of RVW so there 4m for starters

- ???

answers on a post card boys and girls[/quote]

The items you have listed, roughly speaking, form NCFC plc. They are not additional. They are all taken into account by the directors in deciding what the share price should be, given that NCFC plc is unlisted. Apparently, though I have never seen confirmation from the club of this, the share price was raised a year or so back from £30 to £100, valuing the company at £61.6m. In that case Delia''s holding of 317,000 shares means that in a takeover at full price she would get £31.7m. She would not get the £31.7m plus loads of extra millions for her half-ownership of the items in your list or a half-share of the TV money. Of course there are other ways of valuing a company. You are welcome to investigate those.

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So you''re saying the board value the club at £60m even though they''re guaranteed £90m in TV revenue next year!?

I get the whole it''s worth what someone wants to pay and in reality no one would pay £100m for NCFC but that''s the sort of money the club are dealing with.

£8m on one player pretty much proves that.

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I like a lot of things in this refreshing post. Having supported this Club since the pre-deluvian era I am delighted where we are now.

 

To be repetative, and why not, we are debt free in an environment consumed with indebtedness and loss making.  We sit relatively comfortably in one of the World''s most famed footballing environments. We have a dedicated owner who wears the Club''s fortunes on her heart and has stood by us through thick and thin whilst the club''s product is in such demand that a big problem is currently how to cater for it. 

 

We now sit on the brink of even better things. Can it really get any better?

 

I flabbergast at the moaners. They are always a constant it seems and  have probably been of that inclination since the day they achieved cognitive ability. Put them in the Garden of Eden and they would complain about the conditions.

 

Then again, I am a "happy clapper" with a "little Narwich" mentality." We should really be sweeping aside opponents with Ruel''s runs and Goss''s goals, remember. As if these halcyon days were really typical of the bread and butter fight that our Club, like all others, faces in the real World.

 

This is as good as it gets for now. Hang on in there it might well get better, it might not but at least we are in there with a bigger shout than most others.    

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[quote user="Thisisbabyish"]So you''re saying the board value the club at £60m even though they''re guaranteed £90m in TV revenue next year!?

I get the whole it''s worth what someone wants to pay and in reality no one would pay £100m for NCFC but that''s the sort of money the club are dealing with.

£8m on one player pretty much proves that.[/quote]The share price is the only public indication of what the directors think the club is worth. It is all we have to go on. And bear in mind that football is a notoriously unstable and unpredictable business. IF we stay up this season we get loads of TV money, but what if we get relegated next season? People contemplating launching a takeover need - if they are sensible - to look at the longer term. When Birmingham City was sold back in August 2009 as a Premier League club it was valued at £81m. Would it go for that now, as a Championship club? Probably not.

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"]

I flabbergast at the moaners. They are always a constant it seems and  have probably been of that inclination since the day they achieved cognitive ability. Put them in the Garden of Eden and they would complain about the conditions.

[/quote]

 

Broadstairs, you are making the assumption that they have actually achieved cognitive ability!

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''Delia Smith, in the aftermath here. That will hearten Norwich''s

supporters but they will be less encouraged by Smith''s desire to remain

in charge as well. Many blame her inability to find a wealthy investor

as the key reason for the Canaries'' decline. "I am deeply upset by

what''s happened today but I for one will do my best to bring success

back to this club," said the cookery writer.''
Who cares what she''s worth, with this new Premiership TV money deal, we don''t need her to bail us out. She''s done what she stated above and full marks to her, for that.

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The nominal price that is printed on a share certificate for any share has got absolutely nothing to do with the market value of that share.

Norwich City has got no economic value to its shareholders. In fact it has over ten million negative value to its owners since they took over.

Revenues do not matter. The bottom line is proft and cash flows. Only Arsenal, Norwich and Swansea made a profit last year. Norwich and Swansea only made a profit because they had debts/previous losses to cover. The premier league had over 2.3bn debt and over 190m of losses and therefore has a substantial negative economic value. A football club is a benefactors very expensive toy not an economic investment. The only value to its owners is if someone is willing to pay more to you for your toy than you have spent on it.

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