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lake district canary

I want to keep

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Holt Kamara Jackson Becchio.

Add RVW to this and we have a good five strong front line.  We simply don''t need to sell any of them.    Two or three of them will only get the odd game so must be considered good back up, whereas you would expect RVW Holt and KK to be the main three in use. 

So - front line sorted.   No problem.   Holt is still a force, KK has shown enough for me and Jackson and Becchio can do a job when required.

No need to strengthen at the front.  Those players will be enough to score the goals - given the service. 

And that is the key - given the service.     The midfield is the issue.  Strengthen there, or get the ones we have to pass/cross more consistently - improvement needed.

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Why would you want to keep Jackson?

 

No pace, no idea on running into space, small and as proven well out of his depth at this level, in my opinion.

 

Agree on the rest LDC and I would like to add to the front line with a young attacking midfielder ala Kadlec.

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Holt, Kamara, Becchio, RVW and 1 more for me. Great memories of Jacko and huge appreciation for what he did for us but he''s had several chances at this level and hasn''t really taken them, plus he''s out of contract. The jury is still out on Becchio but as he hasn''t really had a chance I''ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

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I think we need 1 more quality striker and out of the current bunch the one I''d get rid of is Becchio. I think he was a panic buy.

Put it this way, if RVW was to get injured, we''d be back to square 1.

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[quote user="Indy"]

Why would you want to keep Jackson?

 

No pace, no idea on running into space, small and as proven well out of his depth at this level, in my opinion.

 

Agree on the rest LDC and I would like to add to the front line with a young attacking midfielder ala Kadlec.

[/quote]

Last time I saw Jackson play at CR (against L''pool), he was the best Norwich player on the pitch in that first half.  Still not sure why he was subbed.  He missed one volley which came to him on his left foot, hit the bottom of the post and showed good pace and link up play.   That was the game where the crowd were baying for Wes - and they got their wish at Jackson''s expense.  He causes teams problems and is able to pull defenders around and create space.    Still at least a good back up player - and on his day can score comfortably too.

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Front line isn''t sorted.

Have you not watched us this season?

Jackson has hardly played a league game. Doesn''t matter what you think of him, what he did in the Championship, what ability he has. Its all irrelevant really, because Hughton hasn''t been using him. As far as I can remember, he hasn''t had an injury at all, let alone a long term one that would seriously effect his season. No reason, other than tactical, and/or ability to leave him out. I doubt he''d even want to stay, other than the possibility he wouldn''t get as much money elsewhere.

Holt, as the main striker. Has scored 5 goals. I know this isn''t all his fault, and i''m hoping he does stay. But 5 goals, with me and others saying for weeks ''oh he''s bound to score this week'' and he just hasn''t. He had 3 fantastic chances last week, one was well saved and we scored on the follow up, and two were well over. He doesn''t get loads of service, but has he ever in the PL? It wasn''t like last season he was getting a dozen chances per game. Snod, Pilks, Bennett, Whittaker, Garrido and Martin are all very capable of putting a decent ball into the box. Which is what Holt wants, not through balls from the midfield. Since our attacking is via wing play and set pieces, Holt should be in his element. But he''s not.

Becchio, well I like him. But again. Hughton just isn''t using him. I think he''ll stay, as Hughton won''t want to buy another 2/3 strikers on top of RVW but still. Nothing to suggest he is part of a ''sorted'' front line.

Kamara might as well not be a striker, operates so much better outside the box. Is dangerous inside as well, but better outside.

I''d be very surprised if we don''t sign another striker. Because the front line isn''t sorted.

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]Front line isn''t sorted. .[/quote]

People are always writing our players off.   They can''t all play at any one time.   Jackson causes problems when he comes on and is always 100% in effort too.    Has had enough chances?   I beg to differ.  He hasn''t this season. But there is always a pecking order and I maintain he is a good squad striker to have - and as I say he can score too.  He scored last season and he has scored this season, on very limited appearances.   He suffered at the beginning of this season because we were still shipping goals and the emphasis switched to sorting that out.   As I said, he was unlucky to be subbed against Liverpool, the last main chance he had to impress and he performed well, compared to the rest of the team.

We can''t have five RVW''s in the front line.  Jackson for me is in the mix.

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With Vaughan and C Martin very likely to leave in the summer, I wouldn''t mind us bringing in another player with a bit of experience and hunger.

That said Kamara looks a decent signing, and Becchio hasn''t had a chance yet, but we know he can score goals, and score goals well.

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People over complicate things sometimes, they really do.Jackson not getting in the team, and rarely even coming on as a sub?Two more strikers have come in and are before him in the pecking order?Doesn''t take Scooby Doo to work this one out I''m afraid.

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Is Jackson out of contract this summer?

 

LDC, what about Vaghuan? He''s a far better bet than Jackson, given he''s scored goals and games this season, would you rather see him back and given the chance?

 

Sorry can''t agree with you, no one is writing off Jackson other than Jackson, he''s not been good enough at this level. We will be into our third season and should be looking to build on weakness and Jackson is one of our weaker stikers.

 

Thanks for the past thre years Jackson and good luck with your new club from me.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]

Holt Kamara Jackson Becchio.

Add RVW to this and we have a good five strong front line.

[/quote]

 

That quartet has scored seven goals all season for us, and two since they all became available in the transfer window. 

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LDC, like I said, it doesn''t really matter what you or any of us think about Jackson. He has hardly even filled the role of squad striker this season. When did he last come on? We went, what 4/5 games only scoring one goal (Man.U, Southampton, Sunderland and Wigan I think, maybe another, have probably missed something). He still wasn''t involved.

You mention Liverpool again. That was such a long time ago. It really does only point to one thing. If he is here next season Hughton is a very silly manager for not using him other than in a couple of cup games in about 4 months. Why would you do that, and then keep a player?

If Surman stays, at least you can say well he''s missed a lot of the season due to injury.

And who said we can have five RVW''s? No one with a brain has said get rid of Holt, Becchio, Kamara and Jackson. But Jackson just hasn''t featured I just cannot see Hughton wanting to keep him on, or him not forcing a move away. We''re signing a striker a league above what we currently have. You want us to keep the other three strikers. Jackson isn''t going to play at all next season. It really doesn''t matter that he hasn''t had a chance to impress, thats the point. Yes he can score, but he played more last season than some people seem to realise, ok, a lot coming of the bench, but when Holt did that he proved his worth and won his starting spot again. Jackson never did. And this season he hasn''t even forced Hughton into giving him a chance from the bench. I just can''t see how anyone thinks he will stay.

(And just to establish, i''m not saying he''s not good enough or we have to get rid because he''s rubbish. I''m just saying he hasn''t played for presumably various reasons, some not his fault at all, in a team thats struggled to score goals at various points in the season.)

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I think that an almost complete change in the striking department is required. There is a reason why the defence has scored more gaols than the strikers collectively!

 

Vaughan - I hope that the "spies" have been watching him. This is a difficult decision - he has certainly impressed Huddersfield, but is this enough to welcome him back? Recently Beckford has looked more impressive for them, so they may not want Vaughan again.

Martin - Derby are happy with him, but again this is at Championship level. He may have accepted that at Premiership level he has no future.

Jackson - good Championship striker, although many of his goals were close-in tap-ins. He is quick, works hard, but carries little power of shot.

Becchio - difficult to judge how good he is at Premiership level, since he is virtually untried. CH seems to rank him behind KK and Holt.

Kamara - has real pace, and is strong and enthusiastic. My impression is that he is beginning to show that he has by now adapted to the English game. Does he have enough technique and control? If he doesn''t cost too much, could be a worthwhile impact substitute.

Holt - there now seems no doubt about his commitment, and his wish to continue, but if RvW comes, and we continue to play with one striker, will Holt accept a bench position? He has been a great servant, but even if his scoring chances were limited under CH, five is a poor return from something like 35 chances to score. He creates goals - from the header which the keeper could only palm away, for instance, but strikers are supposed to score and Turner is pushing him close to be leading scorer!

 

We obviously lack the finance to sign many more strikers, especially as we have to strengthen other parts of the side, but we need at least four strikers. I would keep Holt and KK, and sign one more new striker.

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Jackson we should let leave, we''re not helping ourselves or his career by keeping him on the books.

We need players pushing for positions, not as standby''s or else there''s no competition for places.

Becchio, i wish i could comment but we just haven''t seen enough of him - So again, i would probably get rid also on the basis that he isn''t putting pressure on Holt/Kamara currently.

so, for me Holt, Kamara and RVW with one other small pacey forward in the Leroy Lita mold who can come on in the last 15 mins and allow us to blitz the defence with a mix of balls.

Let''s not forget we have some great attacking options in midfield now.

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Jackson is off this summer chaps, which I''m sure will be no surprise to anyone as he has barely featured this season, so take that as you will, interestingly (and I tell you this with 100% honesty but again doubt if you wish) he mentioned that the players are a little annoyed at the defensive mantra we have adapted, and that training follows suit, e.g ALOT of focused defensive work going on at Colney.

I''m not looking for a keyboard fight, I genuinely had a job at Mr Jackson''s pad and he didn''t seem to reluctant to answer my questions.

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Jackson was barely good enough in the CCC, I distinctly remember how he was virtually goal less until the last 8-10 games of the CCC season when he hit a purple patch which has NEVER been repeated since (or even looked like it would).He simply isn''t good enough for this level, and has been given a fair chance to prove himself so I don''t want to hear nonsense excuses along those lines either.Becchio is an unknown at this point, early signs are that it may have been a slightly cynical deal to get rid of Moro, but maybe there is a hidden plan by CH here and Becchio will surprise us, personally I think he''ll be lucky to get 10 games next season (not taking into account 10 minute cameos).KK is a tough one to call, I''m not fully convinced that there''s enough overall quality in there to be a regular at this level (especially on the scoring front), but his workrate and personality have been superb, and I''m coming round to the idea of a permanent deal, even if it''s just for his impact on morale and as an impact sub. Price HAS to be right however.Holt is another tough call, has looked very out of sorts (and out of shape) at times this season, but then there''s been other games where his passion and effort have been first class (much like they normally were until this season). His lack of goals is a worry, as is whether or not he''s happy in the current system under CH, but he''s still a potentially massive player for us. Should be going nowhere unless we get a damn good offer.Vaughan can''t do any more than he has to try to prove his worth to the side. Has gone on loan without complaint to show his fitness and desire to play, has impressed at each club he''s gone to, and for me deserves a chance next season. Assuming he can stay fit, I''d much rather have him on the books than I would Jackson or Becchio.Chris Martin will be leaving in the summer - end of. (Even if I still like the guy).

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Holt has to go in the summer, nowhere near good enough anymore I''m afraid. Jackson will probably leave too, either on loan or permantley...

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[quote user="lake district canary"]You may be right. We shall see.  But its not the strikers that have been the main  problem - its the supply line that has been below par.  

[/quote]

 

ldc, it is all a matter of opinion, but I would be surprised if many other posters here thought a strike force of Holt, Kamara, Jackson, Becchio and RVW would be remotely adequate for another season in the Premier League. It looks like a recipe for another relegation struggle, and this time probably a losing struggle.

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I think it is in Jackson''s own interest to move on, as I can''t see him getting much game time next year. As for the other points, this is what I said on the KK thread:

I would keep Holt for his influence on the team as a whole, but I think he has to accept that there will be less playing time after RvW arrives. For me, KK offers pace as well as a variety of shooting skills (rightfoot volley, left foot shot into the corner at full tilt and a wicked header to boot on Saturday). His ability to play on either flank is also a key. The next priority is a quality, pacey, goal-scoring AM who can also tackle well and give RvW the service he needs to score. That would give a high quality spine between RvW at the front and Bassong in defense that would move City into mid-table next year.

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I think its likely we will see the exit of Martin and Vaughan, an possibly Jackson as frankly I think he needs to move on for the sake of his carrer. So that leaves us with Holt, RVW, Becchio and possibly Kamara. I think that excluding RVW there others have a fairly similar style to their game, and what we need is maybe a more pacey striker, an upgrade of jackson basically! Who that could be, in all honest I not sure, but I would imagine that another striker, wingers and and a creative midfielder are on the cards!

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If we only sign RVW to bolster our front line then expect us to struggle again, it''s ludicrous that anyone would think Holt, Kamara, Becchio and Jackson would be enough to keep us up.  Jackson isn''t good enough for the Prem (was barely good enough for the Champ until the end of that season), Becchio is unproven, Holt is aging and Kamara is better utilised on the wing/as an impact IMO.Come on LDC you can''t actually be serious.

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One of the reasons why the defence has scored more than the strikers is the poor supply and the fact we sit so deep - more than half our goals come from set pieces when the defenders get forward and are often the target. So get a couple of decent CMs, an alternative for turner (with extra pace) and suddenly we can defend up the pitch and create more chances. Holt has shown he can score, just not when so distant from the midfielders, Kei has outshone Holt and looks to have some positional flexability and RvW looks the best of the lot.

Becchio is hard to assess but Cinnamon is out for me.

A couple of other thoughts

Do we need 25% of our squad as options for 9% of starting places has me wondering whether we can really afford to have 5 strikers in the squad (eg we only have three keepers for one slot)

And did we sign Becchio (a holtalike) to replace holt to leave with a new face coming in, giving RvW, Kamara, Becchio +1?

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It''s a proper struggle getting to grips with our Strikers and personally I think Jackson, Martin, will be off and possibly Holt (just a feeling). I don''t think we can write Becchio off, he scored (yes I know, in the Championship) 20 goals before he came to us, to me, there should be something he can offer us, depending on what sort of formation and style we play next season. I think he just doesn''t give the physical presence that Holt and Kamara gives us, playing the style we do at the moment. I''m guessing that Vaughan will have another loan out season or will come back in and spend time on the bench.So perhaps another 1-2 strikers to come in? One in the higher price tag department and another young prospect?          

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[quote user="lake district canary"]Holt Kamara Jackson Becchio.[/quote]

I imagine that Hughton would happily ship the whole lot out if he had the chance and I for one wouldn''t shed a tear. However, I don''t see anyone coming in for Holt, particularly on his new terms so I suspect he will still be here come August. Becchio looks less like a signing than a way to get Moro out the door and will probably share benchwarming duties with Holt. Kamara hasn''t shown enough so I suspect no offer will be forthcoming for him, shame considering his backstory. Jackson is gone.

Looks like we are one short, best bet would be a youngster young enough not to count in the 25.

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I see Vaughan has been mentioned yet again so let me say this for 3rd time on a thread....His other half absolutely hated it down here and within a couple of months took the kids and moved back to Liverpool.That is how he ended up about an hour from home along the M62 at Huddersfield. His days here are numbered for personal reasons.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]I see Vaughan has been mentioned yet again so let me say this for 3rd time on a thread....His other half absolutely hated it down here and within a couple of months took the kids and moved back to Liverpool.That is how he ended up about an hour from home along the M62 at Huddersfield. His days here are numbered for personal reasons.[/quote]

He''s also not good enough football wise.

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Wholesale change in the striking department is needed. It was obvious last season that our striking options were limited. This season the weakness in this position has been all the more obvious.

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Jackson will go, Martin will go, Vaughan will go.

No opinion on Becchio as haven''t seen him

still undecided about Holt.

would Like Kamara to sign perm.

and two more great strikers if the 5 previously mentioned leave.

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Ok, I''ve listened, but what do you want from a striker?    10 goals a season?   20?   A Heskey type who hardly scores but hopefully plays everyone else in so they can score?    A Jackson type who can pull defenders all over the place making space for others to benefit?

Anyway, you can''t have a fourth or fifth choice striker that will instantly come in and be a match winner.   Jackson may or may not be off in the Summer, but he did score several important goals last season - on limited appearances - and has scored this season - on even less appearances.   How you can just write him off as a valuable squad player, I just don''t know.   He does cause problems to defences on the pitch - and he has been on the bench recently which suggests CH is more than prepared to use him.   

Jackson - like all goal scorers needs a run in a team to build confidence - but there is  often not the opportunity to do that because of the pressure for results and tactics and other members of the squad in the team ahead of him.    You need valued squad members to be there and be able to do a job when required.   Lappin, Jackson, Surman, Wilbraham, Fox and others who have had less of a look in over the last two years stayed and were/are still able to come on and do well when required.   There''s one post that says get rid of all the strikers.  What price team work, squad spirit, continuity etc etc, then? 

Its too easy to say get rid and not see the bigger picture. The bigger picture isn''t get rid of them and start again, its keep them if - they want  to stay- and let them fight for their place in the team.   I seem to have a higher opinion of Jackson than some of you, but one thing I would say is that being the hard worker he is, Jackson will not have been sitting back feeling sorry for himself, he will have been working at his game, improving his technique and waiting for his chance.   That first half at Liverpool seems a long time ago, but it showed that he has it in him to cause problems at this level. 

Imo it will be less getting rid of players and more a case of getting players in that can create more from midfield.    Our strike force would score more goals - whichever of them was on the pitch - if there was a better supply line.   Some may go, maybe Jackson will want to move on, but not because he isn''t good enough, more to get a chance where he can prosper in a first team and build up his confidence in front of goal - and yes it may be in the championship - but that doesn''t mean he isn''t equally good enough to stay and fight for a place in the team here.

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