Stadium expansion

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

Waste of time. The millions it would cost to add another 5000 to the capacity is not worth it. all spare funds need to be reinvested into the playing staff. With the millions on offer from TV the marginal financial gain that a few thousand extra tickets may bring is a mere drop in the ocean. If in a decade we have become totally established then possibly

[pete_norw 0]

[quote user="Striker"]Wolves added another tier to a stand towards the end of their recent spell in the PL, and they''re now staring League One in the face. Be careful what you wish for IMO. Just one week ago, we were a home defeat away from being perilously close to going down. As another poster said, let''s wait until we''re more like Fulham, who very rarely come close to going down.[/quote]

My point too, not only wolves but the binners too, so think its a clear case of walk before run, what I would like to see is however is seats in front of the hotel, Think we would all love to see that and the mind still boggles as to what the hell Doncaster was up to with this eye sore. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="pete_norw"]

[quote user="Striker"]Wolves added another tier to a stand towards the end of their recent spell in the PL, and they''re now staring League One in the face. Be careful what you wish for IMO. Just one week ago, we were a home defeat away from being perilously close to going down. As another poster said, let''s wait until we''re more like Fulham, who very rarely come close to going down.[/quote]

My point too, not only wolves but the binners too, so think its a clear case of walk before run, what I would like to see is however is seats in front of the hotel, Think we would all love to see that and the mind still boggles as to what the hell Doncaster was up to with this eye sore. 

[/quote]

You''re not wrong there.  I wonder how hard the club have tried to solve this as it  would make the ground look better and help maintain the atmosphere of a proper stadium where there are no gaps.  The hotel corner is a legacy left from something that  should just never have happened.    How much would it cost to buy out the hotel and then convert it back into seating and maintain some of the space left over behind it into some other kind of business use - maybe even as just a smaller hotel?  

It should be the first priority before even  thinking of building a new stand.    Call me old fashioned if you like but I don''t think the atmosphere in the Jarold is as good as it used to be in the South Stand - probably due to the seating situation, I know - but it was more enclosed in the South Stand and held the noise better.  So new stand for me does not necessarily mean a better stadium. 

Solve the hotel issue first and get a couple more thousand in that way.

[T 190]

This has been discussed ad nauseum. It really is quite simply. Corner infill made no financial sense. The hotel did. Stadium expansion at a cost of 20m would make sense if we stayed in the premier long term but not if relegated. Does not make sense if expansion costs 30m. It is just a very simple NPV calculation. Quite disturbing that there are so many people who don''t have the basic intelligence or education to grasp it.

[morty 0]

[quote user="T"]This has been discussed ad nauseum. It really is quite simply. Corner infill made no financial sense. The hotel did. Stadium expansion at a cost of 20m would make sense if we stayed in the premier long term but not if relegated. Does not make sense if expansion costs 30m. It is just a very simple NPV calculation. Quite disturbing that there are so many people who don''t have the basic intelligence or education to grasp it.[/quote]Pound for pound, corner infills are not cost effective.

[Guest]

Not wishing too sound too cynical, but with season tickets selling out each year and Norwich offering Premier League football, McNally is free to significantly hike the price of season tickets every year confident that demand far outstrips supply.If ground capacity goes up by another 5,000 McNally''s hand is significantly weakened.Once the average season ticket price is nearer the £650 mark in 2 or 3 year''s time we might see some movement.  Kerching.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="T"]This has been discussed ad nauseum. It really is quite simply. Corner infill made no financial sense. The hotel did. Stadium expansion at a cost of 20m would make sense if we stayed in the premier long term but not if relegated. Does not make sense if expansion costs 30m. It is just a very simple NPV calculation. Quite disturbing that there are so many people who don''t have the basic intelligence or education to grasp it.[/quote]

The corner infill for me is more than a financial issue.   It is to do with the quality of the noise of the crowd and the enclosing of the pitch that would make for a better crowd atmosphere.    To me it should be a number one priority - it looks bad too, as well as restricting the numbers fans that could be in the ground.       "Financial sense"  has to be balanced with the  well being of the experience of the twenty six or so thousand that visit CR every other week.   It may be a very expensive issue to solve but I think the majority of fans would like to see a corner infill  - and it would add a valuable few hundred/thousand to the capacity - and whichever way you look at it - that has to be a good thing.

[star_manic 0]

what is the legal aspect of filling in the hotel corner? could we legally do that?

[morty 0]

[quote user="star_manic"]what is the legal aspect of filling in the hotel corner? could we legally do that?[/quote]I should imagine there would be planning permission issues, the Holiday Inn would likely reject any proposal.A corner infill really isn''t the answer, the build costs weighed against how many actual seats you gain just doesn''t add up.

[Matt Juler 151]

[quote user="star_manic"]what is the legal aspect of filling in the hotel corner? could we legally do that?[/quote]I''ve spoken with David McNally about the hotel corner and agreement would be needed from around 10 different stakeholders for an temporary stand to be erected. At the time of talking last August they were not even close to an agreement.

[Hannibal II 0]

The city stand can not be redeveloped until the club have acquired the rights to Carrow Road behind it and as far as i am aware the council do not wish to sell this. This would leave the only viable option for expansion to add another tier onto the Jarrold stand i can assure you after speaking at length to two members of the board about this recently we can do but don''t have the justification yet to do.

[Mello Yello 2,291]

Expand the toilets and the lounge in the Cathedral.......That''ll do for me.....

[William Darby 0]

Let''s face it. The club will never expand unless somebody finds a £200m down the back of the sofa.

Reason is if we expand, the risk of not filling the stadium every week is too great and the clubs paradoxical marketing is ruined.

[Rolf Harris 31]

Someone give the club a savings jar and may be in ten years time we''ll have enough money to expand.

[Monty13 2,232]

I really don''t understand why the council would object to losing the part of the carrow road road that runs behind the GW stand. It is surely only used for access to the Club anyway?

3 Clubs get relegated each year whether they undertake expansion projects or not. I would argue that while it may be a contributing factor, no club has ever been relegated purely because they expanded. Wolves were never that secure in the PL, 15th finish (on 38 points in an atrocious bottom 7) followed by a 17th (40 points) in the second season is hardly an established top team, they were always going to be in amongst the relegation favourites.

By the same token while I would like to see expansion I don''t think we should do so until at least one more season of established top flight football. It is fair point that the squad needs the investment more at this moment in time.

I think we should expand though, while as a financial decision it makes little sense in the short term, expansion on this scale is a long term investment. It cannot also be looked at as a pure short term financial decision. While many may rage about "plastic fans" the club must grow its supporter base to ever challenge beyond a safe mid table position.

Yes we get a huge amount of TV money, but so does every other club in the league, without a rich benefactor and with FFP slowly curbing their influence in the future anyway, the only way the club can grow is through maximising other profits. It''s not just about seats, its about sponsorship, shirt sales and other merchandising and media opportunities.

At the minute there is limited access to carrow road for new supporters (and by this I mean the young generation, not "plastics"). I don''t know about you but I got hooked on Norwich as a kid (in norfolk school with a lot of Man U and Liverpool supporters) because I could actually go and see my team play. A lot of my friends who were Man U supporters as 7 year olds became die hard Norwich supporters due to getting into games cheap in their teens.

If our current generation of future supporters can only see Norwich on TV, even though the ground is within 30mins, then why not support Man U/City and Chelsea? You''re more likely to see them on TV and just as likely to get a similar priced ticket to the ground. Why does geographical location matter anymore if either way you can''t watch your team for real?

How many of those at the U18''s game were kids? how many of the 17,000 plus on monday will be? They (and more likely their parents!) are taking one of the few affordable and available opportunities to see a "Norwich" game. Unless you get your next generation of supporters hooked, your supporter base will never grow. We have a good opportunity as the only PL club in a wide catchment area, but we can''t maximise that with our current capacity.

[Robornio 107]

What is all this rubbish about ''empty seats''? How many times in the past few years have we been near maximum capacity, where only the amount of away fans, corporates or those not able to make it have made a slight difference? We sell out record numbers of season tickets each year and our fan base has been growing for the past decade or so. I myself have had to move to the south for work commitments, so can only get a ticket when I can make it. The problem is, without my season ticket it''s too hard to bring my family as every game sells out and is limited on numbers per member. The fact is, we urgently need more seats as would fill them in ANY league! I''d not stop going even if we were in League 2, and I''m sure others are the same.

Also, with Financial Fair-play Regulations, the stadium size means everything. The more people in for big games, the more income, which means the more we can spend on players. Do we really want to be handicapping ourselves even against the likes or Cardiff & Hull ?! No we don''t. Time to expand and stop finding these inaccurate silly excuses!

[Mr.Carrow 376]

Morty, what facts are you basing your "we dont have the population to warrant expansion" statement on?

[City penguin 0]

Think about it when were getting gates of 16k and a capacity of what 23k it took time to increase attendances, and a promotion, but there was capacity so that we could offer cheap deals and get more supporters hooked. Sure if we went to 33-35k there would be games where there was plenty of spare tickets but that gives the club an opportunity to repeat the process that started 15 or so years ago, and build to a stage where we are selling out 35k every game in the premiership. We are reaping the benefits now of our fan base that grew in the late 90s-mid 2000s, without it we may of gone bust when we went down to league one.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]Morty, what facts are you basing your "we dont have the population to warrant expansion" statement on?[/quote]None whatsoever.But tell you what, if you disagree with me, how

about you come up with solid facts to prove we will fill a 35k seater

stadium for more games than not.And if you can do that I will totally change my mind on the prudence of stadium expansion.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

So you dont know what the population is you are referring to Morty, but you make a grand statement that it isnt big enough to warrent expansion?  Hmmm, clever..... Do you think its possible for me to give you "solid facts to prove we will fill a 35k stadium"?  Of course not, so why make such a juvenile demand?  How about doing some research and reaching an informed opinion?  I tell you what though, if you can find me a club outside the top 6 with a more compelling case for expansion id really love to hear about it.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]So you dont know what the population is you are referring to Morty, but you make a grand statement that it isnt big enough to warrent expansion?  Hmmm, clever..... Do you think its possible for me to give you "solid facts to prove we will fill a 35k stadium"?  Of course not, so why make such a juvenile demand?  How about doing some research and reaching an informed opinion?  I tell you what though, if you can find me a club outside the top 6 with a more compelling case for expansion id really love to hear about it.[/quote]Okay Mr vaguely patronising.In my opinion, based on the local population density, and also based on the relatively low earnings in the area I don''t think that there are 6 or 7,000 Norwich City fans sat in their houses, with 40 or 50 quid of ticket money burning a hole in their pockets wishing they were at Carrow Road.Prove me wrong.

[Matt Juler 151]

If Hughton remains in charge and we keep playing this same dour football then we''ll start to have empty seats in the current stadium.  I''ve all but given up on away matches, it''s only my season ticket that''s dragging me up to Norwich every other week.