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Can someone please just explain to me what he does or provides that is so spectacular he is playing week in week out since we got in to trouble... I think I heard his name twice today in the full 90.

Does he score? Does he create? Assist? Does he spread play?

Clearly I don''t get it so grateful someone explains what it is that I am too daft or blind to spot.

Thank you

A

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Take it you didn''t watch the game then? Howson was the only Norwich midfielder who passed forward today, everyone else sideways or backwards, but yeah lets slate him for trying to change the game.

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I think he''s being limited in terms of the teams tactics.

Two or three times last week, he got the ball and burst forwards with real pace. And looked very dangerous. But today, none of that. Most games, none of that.

No idea why Hughton would stop him from doing that, its probably also a confidence thing. Really needs to step up if he''d given a chance in next three games to get anywhere near even the subs bench next season. Surman is probably a better choice in CM than Howson if he continues to play this way.

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Interesting that Paul McVeigh said Howson had done nothing all game and should be taken off...seen through the eyes of an ex pro... but then what would he know?

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If McVeigh was that good tactically etc he would be a manager/coach, not a commentator...

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[quote user="SYG"]If McVeigh was that good tactically etc he would be a manager/coach, not a commentator...[/quote]and if Darren Huckerby had said it?

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[quote user="SYG"]He didn''t, so pointless question[/quote]hardly.. he isnt a tactician or manager is he...Neither is Gary Neville, Or Dion Dublin, Or Alan Hansen,I suppose none of their opinions count either?

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One of the worst players today. Saw him make one good ball forward. There is no way he should be playing. Certainly not at the expense of Fox and Wes

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Didn''t have a great game but he was miles better than Tetty. At least Howson knows that it''s not against the rules to pass a football forwards. Tettey will always get in Hughtons team because he''s so negative - two of a kind.

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Howson struggled, he was outsized, outmuscled and didn''t have the technical ability to get the ball down and try to play around bigger and stronger opponents. I think the game plan was for him to play in "the Hoolahan" role in front of Tettey and BJ, but he ended up playing far too deep, almost as a flat midfield three, and he was not effective due to the issues I mentioned.

Tettey didn''t have a great game (nor did Johnson for that matter), but I felt that he was doing slightly more than Howson defensively whilst neither were offering much going forward.

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Thought Howson was one of the best of a bad bunch today. Not sure what you''re getting at.

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I do think that Tettey and BJ are stronger defensively and therefore if Howson is also playing he needs to be more offensive, creative or a scoring threat.. and to me he is not premiership quality at present to have that added class. I don''t doubt his work rate and potential for future, but we are not in a position to look to the future, its the present that counts. I think if Tettey and BJ are playing then perhaps an Hoolahan or Bennett would be more creative. Good discussion, just think a lot of people have a lot of excuses for him, like confidence right now... I think he has had a good run of games now and we are lacking in central mid. Perhaps he is just better at home games. Interesting points. Tks

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I''m a big fan of Howson but I don''t understand why Hughton hasn''t looked to use the team that took us on that 10 game run that he so often refers to.

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Keep losing midfield battles. We got outplayed for large periods against Reading. I haven''t really seen us control a game.

I''m gonna get shot for this but I think we overrate tettey and johnson. Limited footballers.

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[quote user="tom cavendish"]When Howson has stared a game this season we have Won 18%, Drawn 27% Lost 55%.When Howson hasn''t started we have Won 44% Drawn 44% Lost 12%

[/quote]

You can''t blame it on one man Tom. For the majority of those Hanes he has played out of position as a holding midfielder.

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Possibly not one man CUSDP but the set up of the team when Jonny plays which I think is what you are suggesting.

I do find those statistics compelling though. If I had made decisions that bucked the trend of management information and things went south I would have expected a summons to explain my actions and a rollocking to point out the error of my ways!

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[quote user="Sussexyellow"]Possibly not one man CUSDP but the set up of the team when Jonny plays which I think is what you are suggesting.

I do find those statistics compelling though. If I had made decisions that bucked the trend of management information and things went south I would have expected a summons to explain my actions and a rollocking to point out the error of my ways![/quote]Perhaps someone could tweet McNally with the following:When Howson has started a game this season we have Won 18%, Drawn 27% Lost 55%.When Howson hasn''t started we have Won 44% Drawn 44% Lost 12%

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Here are Howson''s stat''s for this season including sub appearances:Matches with Howson: Won 23% Drawn 27% Lost 50%Matches without Howson Won 45% Drawn 55% Lost 0%

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CAM. CAM. CAAAAAMMMMM.
I''m gonna wreck you in a minute Tom Cavendish. What a ridiculous "stat". In fact that just goes to prove stats can mean everything and nothing.

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Yesterday I found myself groaning out loud every time Tettey got the ball in midfield. He''s a fantastic DM but has no passing ability whatsoever.

The one thing that was really annoying me, and I noticed on more than one occasion, was that we had the ball on the wing or sometimes Johnson would have it on the left of midfield, and Tettey was the furthest forward of the midfield three and Howson (the best passer of the three and best going forward) was holding in front of the back line. Ball would come to Tettey who would immediately make a 10 yard pass either backwards or sideways. Groan....

That for me was a great example of our Manager not using his squad effectively. You want someone to hold back and break up play in front of the back four if we lose the ball thats Tettey, you want one of those picked midfield three to receive the ball, turn look for a pass or dribble at opponents thats Howson. So why were they on role reversal?

Whatever Howson individually or that entire midfield three are being instructed in how they are to play is the issue, not Howson, but thats just my opinion.

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[quote user="Monty13"]Yesterday I found myself groaning out loud every time Tettey got the ball in midfield. He''s a fantastic DM but has no passing ability whatsoever.

The one thing that was really annoying me, and I noticed on more than one occasion, was that we had the ball on the wing or sometimes Johnson would have it on the left of midfield, and Tettey was the furthest forward of the midfield three and Howson (the best passer of the three and best going forward) was holding in front of the back line. Ball would come to Tettey who would immediately make a 10 yard pass either backwards or sideways. Groan....

That for me was a great example of our Manager not using his squad effectively. You want someone to hold back and break up play in front of the back four if we lose the ball thats Tettey, you want one of those picked midfield three to receive the ball, turn look for a pass or dribble at opponents thats Howson. So why were they on role reversal?

Whatever Howson individually or that entire midfield three are being instructed in how they are to play is the issue, not Howson, but thats just my opinion.[/quote]
Your opinion is correct Monty +1million

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I also agree Monty. When I was concurring with the stat it was in relation to the team set up - for the avoidance of doubt.

While we were on our winning streak Hoolihan was in a much more advanced role. He can not do the defensive patrol. With have gone into our shell and with much less success.

The title of this thread is harsh on Jonny H.

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This post has some what rattled me. Norwich fans seem to have a very bad habit of having their favourites and if you''re not one of those, you might as well transfer elsewhere.

Granted Jonny Howson hasn''t been as good as I was expecting him to be when he joined, however he is still very young and would not be playing for us or have captained Leeds as a teenager if he wasn''t a good footballer.

Now, back to my original point about favourites. Howson hasn''t played particularly bad recently but still come in for criticsm, now if we take a look at everyone''s main man Wes Hoolahan, how many goals and assists had this man actually scored or created for us this season? Not all that many, yet people still worship him and treat him as though he is Lionel Messi.

Howson has been no worse than anyone else this season and doesn''t deserve the criticism he gets when other players off not a great deal more yet still get worshipped.

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[quote user="bradley11"]This post has some what rattled me. Norwich fans seem to have a very bad habit of having their favourites and if you''re not one of those, you might as well transfer elsewhere.

Granted Jonny Howson hasn''t been as good as I was expecting him to be when he joined, however he is still very young and would not be playing for us or have captained Leeds as a teenager if he wasn''t a good footballer.

Now, back to my original point about favourites. Howson hasn''t played particularly bad recently but still come in for criticsm, now if we take a look at everyone''s main man Wes Hoolahan, how many goals and assists had this man actually scored or created for us this season? Not all that many, yet people still worship him and treat him as though he is Lionel Messi.

Howson has been no worse than anyone else this season and doesn''t deserve the criticism he gets when other players off not a great deal more yet still get worshipped.[/quote]
The "he''s still young" argument only works if the player will develop physically or technically as naturally happens in your late teens and early twenties, or if the player will develop with more first team experience. Howson is now 24, he isn''t going to be growing physically or technically a lot any more. He''s also played over 200 first team games now with Leeds and us combined, and has had a good run in the premiership this year. He isn''t going to suddenly become a world beater when he gets up to 35 premier league games or some arbitrary figure like that. He''s about at the peak of his abilities now. There will be some slight improvements as he gets more experience, but very marginal, and we can''t wait for five or six years until he''s 29/30 on the off chance he might "do a Holt" and blossom in the last few seasons of his career. 
The difference with Hoolahan is that even when he isn''t making assists, he is taking the game by the scruff of the neck. He is the only midfield player who regularly (as in week in week out) finds space to receive the ball. He is the only player who keeps hold of the ball and goes past players regularly. Hoolahan has his faults as well, but he has more impact on games (even if not in the form of assists and goals this time round) than Howson has had so far. 
Like I said above, Howson has now also been tried in virtually every possible central midfield position; holding, the "Hoolahan role", as a traditional central midfielder in a flat midfield 4. Has he really shone in any of those positions?

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