Liam Bridcutt Linked Again

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Indy"]the management team train with the players every week and Fox has had the chance to show he should be picked, we have been playing a 5 man midfield most of the season and I would imagine that Fox has failed to show this creativity and passing that a lot of fans appear to think he has.....[/quote]Ah, this old chestnut.Let me give you an example then.In training Wes has looked excellent, great passing movement and link up play throughout, but the manager decides he''s going to play a 4-4-2 with 2 defensive mids in the centre rather than say a diamond where Wes could sit at the top. So who does he pick for those roles? It sure as hell isn''t going to be Wes, because despite him looking great in training, that isn''t the role the manager wants and his skillset does not suit it, so instead Tettey and Johnson are chosen and Wes is forced to the bench or even left out.This could be repeated every single week, but at no point does it mean that Wes has looked bad in training or that he isn''t good enough, what this example shows is that he simply does not fit the role the manager wants to play and therefore gets left out.This is the boat I feel that Fox has been left in, he isn''t defensive enough to take a place from Johnno or Tettey, and doesn''t have the box-to-box running that Howson offers, and as Hughton values these attributes over Fox''s passing and creativity more (at least this season) - he gets left out.To say that he hasn''t been good enough in training or isn''t up to this level is just grossly unfair to a very good servant of the club, who''s only crime is to be able to pass a ball and not being built like a tank...

[star_manic 0]

[quote user="Indy"]

[quote user="Hog"]Have never really understood this love affair with Fox, he was goood for us, key word being was. Clearly we are looking to move to the next level as the signing of Wolfswinkel indicates, Fox, sadly is not in that level.[/quote]

 

Agree with that HOG, but not sure Birdcutt is moving on to the next level as he''s not really proven, at 23 isn''t really a youngster but moving into his prime as a player and I don''t think at 5ft 7 should be considered a holding midfielder. I would like to see a proven player already playing at a high level to push the current starting 11, not risking another championship player and hoping he makes it in this league.....Becchio and Butterfield are two who should show that not all championship players will make the step up.

[/quote]but we don''t know if Butterfield or Becchio can make the step up. Butterfield has never played in a PL match, and Becchio has not had very many minutes.

[Indy 3,283]

[quote user="star_manic"][quote user="Indy"]

[quote user="Hog"]Have never really understood this love affair with Fox, he was goood for us, key word being was. Clearly we are looking to move to the next level as the signing of Wolfswinkel indicates, Fox, sadly is not in that level.[/quote]

 

Agree with that HOG, but not sure Birdcutt is moving on to the next level as he''s not really proven, at 23 isn''t really a youngster but moving into his prime as a player and I don''t think at 5ft 7 should be considered a holding midfielder. I would like to see a proven player already playing at a high level to push the current starting 11, not risking another championship player and hoping he makes it in this league.....Becchio and Butterfield are two who should show that not all championship players will make the step up.

[/quote]but we don''t know if Butterfield or Becchio can make the step up. Butterfield has never played in a PL match, and Becchio has not had very many minutes.
[/quote]

 

But the question is why? Becchio has been here since January and Butterfiled out on loan to gain fitness, we have not really been too impressive and yet thye have not featured, so is it that they have not impressed the management or are the management wrong and they should change the style of our team?

 

Would you like to see Butterfield and Becchio start against Villa? who would you drop and what formation would you play to cater for them to be included?

 

Just would like to know.

[Indy 3,283]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Indy"]the management team train with the players every week and Fox has had the chance to show he should be picked, we have been playing a 5 man midfield most of the season and I would imagine that Fox has failed to show this creativity and passing that a lot of fans appear to think he has.....[/quote]
Ah, this old chestnut.

Let me give you an example then.

In training Wes has looked excellent, great passing movement and link up play throughout, but the manager decides he''s going to play a 4-4-2 with 2 defensive mids in the centre rather than say a diamond where Wes could sit at the top.

So who does he pick for those roles? It sure as hell isn''t going to be Wes, because despite him looking great in training, that isn''t the role the manager wants and his skillset does not suit it, so instead Tettey and Johnson are chosen and Wes is forced to the bench or even left out.

This could be repeated every single week, but at no point does it mean that Wes has looked bad in training or that he isn''t good enough, what this example shows is that he simply does not fit the role the manager wants to play and therefore gets left out.

This is the boat I feel that Fox has been left in, he isn''t defensive enough to take a place from Johnno or Tettey, and doesn''t have the box-to-box running that Howson offers, and as Hughton values these attributes over Fox''s passing and creativity more (at least this season) - he gets left out.

To say that he hasn''t been good enough in training or isn''t up to this level is just grossly unfair to a very good servant of the club, who''s only crime is to be able to pass a ball and not being built like a tank...
[/quote]

 

It''s not an old chestnut Indy bones, where else do players on the fringe push for a start?

 

Your example is short in view as there is a 10 month season where players have the chance to impress and have the chance to show during matched and obviously Fox has been short in the view of the manager......it really doesn''t matter what we say, i agree that Fox has been superb for us, great in our championship season.

 

Your last sentence sin''t really true either as Johnson nor Tettey are really that big and I have failed to see Fox range of passing since the Championship, even last season in premeirship he didn''t impress me. But that''s my view, maybe more in line with the manager then your view of Fox.

 

We need t move on past Fox next season or we will be in the same place as we find oursleve now, IMO.

[Jersey Canary 143]

[quote user="pete_norw"]

[quote user="Jersey Canary"][quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Jack Flash"]I liked Fox in the Championship, but I cannot forget his display against the mighty Luton![/quote]Ah yes, nice to see that one poor display from a guy who hadn''t had a regular game in months is enough to cancel out the seasons of great play and excellent service he''d already given us...There really is no logic to some posters...[/quote] I''m a season ticket older and I was amazed Fox got third in POTY last year. Fox is too lightweight, too slow in the pass and generally did nothing with the ball. Yes he is a good deliverer of the ball and yes he can pass sideways. Is he creative in OpenPlay? Does he score his fair share of goals? Does he have the required defensive qualities to complement the needed requirements of a modern day player? For me he''s one of these players who flatters to decieve. We have enough players in the team already,(Hoolahan being another) who flatter.. But where Hoolahan is different is we currently don''t have anyone better. I think rose tinted glasses are used by Fox supporters. He''s a decent championship player at best and that can be said for half our squad. Hughton will address this in the summer.[/quote]

 

Makes no difference if your a season ticket holder or not, everyone has his or her opinion, and I am a season ticket holder too, but for the record I can''t remember any match that Fox has played in that he has not given his all.

[/quote]The season ticket holder point I made is valid as it means I have seen him play a lot so therefore there is a bit of substance to my opinion.  This doesn''t mean that you have your views and you can qualify this as you attend each week as well.  My view is he seems to get great PR based on not a lot.I have never said that Fox doesn''t try, or that he''s not a nice guy etc etc.  In my view Fox is just not good enough at this level and was extremely luckly to come third in the last POTY.

[The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0]

[quote user="Hog"]Have never really understood this love affair with Fox, he was goood for us, key word being was. Clearly we are looking to move to the next level as the signing of Wolfswinkel indicates, Fox, sadly is not in that level.[/quote]Because when things are perceived to be not going very well on the pitch (and I can see points for and against this perception), message boards flow into the following recipe of pant wetting opinions;1) Find scapegoats - Currently Chris Hughton, also seen Holt moving into this category as well.2) Find messiahs who are not playing (and would clearly make all the difference and make us win 4-0 every game) - Been Fox lately, previously Jackson. Can also include players on loan, like Vaughan, and in previous years Cody McDonald. Also can include potential managers. Not current managers on here in that category though. Despite all the pant wetting around Hughton, the pant wetting masses do not appear to have settled on a decent replacement.Rinse and repeat after every poor result or performance.IMO, in the original issue Fox is a good hard working pro at Championship level. We should be aiming higher than Fox, or Birdcut for that matter, especually when we already have Johnson & Tettey for the holding midfield role. If we are in for another holding midfield player, (and I''m not sure we are), it may mean Hughton may want to try again with 2 deep CM''s in a 4-2-3-1 next year, which could lead a more attacking style if the qualify / flair of the "3-1" players are better than what we currently have.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

The strange thing about Fox which I''ve not seen discussed at all is that whenever he is in the team (except Luton of course) somehow the team seems to play better. When he was a regular, it was sometimes hard to recall him doing very much but we always missed him when he was absent.

 

It really seemed that he provided some special thing that enable others to shine without it being obvious. A bit like a very good straight man in a comedy show.   I find it hard to define but he did bring out the best in others.

[NorwichNorth 0]

That last point is spot on, he came third in POTS last year not because he stood out but because its fairly obvious that for the majority of the season when he played we invariably played well and picked up points.

I dont think people are trying to say that he is the best player at the club and should play every week. I think its been quite clear that we have been poor in possession at times and probably our best passer is sat in the stands.

I think its unfair to say hes not good enough for the prem because on last seasons show i think he has somethjng to offer but to judge him on this season is unfair. Football is about opinions and its no different with managers, chris hughton does not rate him, but just because he doesnt plqy doesnt mean hes not good enough!

[smooth 114]

Last season we had momentum and not many players who would have walked into any Prem team. Fox did well but players also get to a level where they cannot do more. Last season there were games where you could overlook our inadequacies as we were a promoted team.

Now you have to be ruthless and cutting, we want to be a stable prem team, I still love crofts for asking for the move to Brighton, it was right for the club and for the player. Fox is a squad player, no more and he is a good squad player. I think we know the limitations of our midfield and the past has been it is now about the remaining games.

Bridcutt, is a fine player, whether again he is the right player for us as we need genuine starters is another question and I would doubt that he is. But happy to be proven otherwise.

Fox, sj, Tierney, Vaughan... We have discussed the list of names... There will be changes but these players need to look at extending their careers.. Personally they are not with Ncfc and I want better now. As always our squad players will be made from those in our first 16 as we look to improve our 25.

[Olly 0]

I watch a fair bit of Championship football (love the league), and seen Brighton play 4/5 times and everytime he''s been immense.

He''d be a definate upgrade on Johnson in the midfield, and a good quality signing if we signed him.

Although if Brighton get promoted I would imagine he''ll stay there

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"]We should be aiming higher than Fox, or Birdcut for that matter, especually when we already have Johnson & Tettey for the holding midfield role. If we are in for another holding midfield player, (and I''m not sure we are), it may mean Hughton may want to try again with 2 deep CM''s in a 4-2-3-1 next year, which could lead a more attacking style if the qualify / flair of the "3-1" players are better than what we currently have.<br>[/quote]Johnson has the worse passing accuracy in the Premiership for a central midfielder (who has played 20 games)  Tettey is ok at passing the ball sideways or back 5 yards. Howson seems little better in the passing stakes, dallying on the ball before offloading it 5 yards sideways.Simply put, the central midfield are incapable of doing anything other than passing the ball 5 yards sideways after dallying on the ball. There are few if any 30 yard passes out to an on-running winger this season.  This inability to put the ball in the right place to start attacks has slowed our offensive play down to a snails pace  We now score hardly any goals from open play.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"]We should be aiming higher than Fox, or Birdcut for that matter, especually when we already have Johnson & Tettey for the holding midfield role. If we are in for another holding midfield player, (and I''m not sure we are), it may mean Hughton may want to try again with 2 deep CM''s in a 4-2-3-1 next year, which could lead a more attacking style if the qualify / flair of the "3-1" players are better than what we currently have.[/quote]Johnson has the worse passing accuracy in the Premiership for a central midfielder (who has played 20 games)  Tettey is ok at passing the ball sideways or back 5 yards. Howson seems little better in the passing stakes, dallying on the ball before offloading it 5 yards sideways.Simply put, the central midfield are incapable of doing anything other than passing the ball 5 yards sideways after dallying on the ball. There are few if any 30 yard passes out to an on-running winger this season.  This inability to put the ball in the right place to start attacks has slowed our offensive play down to a snails pace  We now score hardly any goals from open play. [/quote]

Those stats are harsh on Johnson though because I think most of our fans would agree he has been very good this season and I expect him to come in the top 3 of the POTS voting. The simple point is that yes his passing isn''t amazing (although i don;t think its as bad as those stats imply) but it shouldn;t need to be. It should be fine for a defensive midfielder to win the ball and give a simple pass to a more creative colleague. The problem Johnson and Tettey have had at times has been though that they have not had very many more creative colleagues playing so they have perhaps had to take on more of the creative mantle than should otherwise be the case, trying more difficult passes and often having just a lone striker to pick out up front.

I bet that in games when Wes plays (or Fox for that matter although i do agree we need to move on next season and look for th next level up) their pass completion and ball retention is much better because those two players (along with Snoddy) are the only ones in our squad who always make themselves available to receive the simple ball and show for it.

[Canaries Utd 0]

[quote user="Jersey Canary"][quote user="pete_norw"]

[quote user="Jersey Canary"][quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Jack Flash"]I liked Fox in the Championship, but I cannot forget his display against the mighty Luton![/quote]Ah yes, nice to see that one poor display from a guy who hadn''t had a regular game in months is enough to cancel out the seasons of great play and excellent service he''d already given us...There really is no logic to some posters...[/quote] I''m a season ticket older and I was amazed Fox got third in POTY last year. Fox is too lightweight, too slow in the pass and generally did nothing with the ball. Yes he is a good deliverer of the ball and yes he can pass sideways. Is he creative in OpenPlay? Does he score his fair share of goals? Does he have the required defensive qualities to complement the needed requirements of a modern day player? For me he''s one of these players who flatters to decieve. We have enough players in the team already,(Hoolahan being another) who flatter.. But where Hoolahan is different is we currently don''t have anyone better. I think rose tinted glasses are used by Fox supporters. He''s a decent championship player at best and that can be said for half our squad. Hughton will address this in the summer.[/quote]

 

Makes no difference if your a season ticket holder or not, everyone has his or her opinion, and I am a season ticket holder too, but for the record I can''t remember any match that Fox has played in that he has not given his all.

[/quote]The season ticket holder point I made is valid as it means I have seen him play a lot so therefore there is a bit of substance to my opinion.  This doesn''t mean that you have your views and you can qualify this as you attend each week as well.  My view is he seems to get great PR based on not a lot.I have never said that Fox doesn''t try, or that he''s not a nice guy etc etc.  In my view Fox is just not good enough at this level and was extremely luckly to come third in the last POTY.[/quote]Unfortunately Jersey, people see Fox through rose tinted glasses, i''m 100% with you. The fact of the matter is the Player of the season was going to one man that season, whoever came second/third, it was all about fractions of votes. Fox is not good enough, two managers, with very different approaches over two seasons have quite clearly said so... look at the team sheets!