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Bill

How high can we finish ?

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Four games to go, so theoretically we could finish on 50 points, which could well be enough to secure 9th or even 8th place. However, more realistically, at a point a game on average so far it would suggest we will finish on 42 points, which would probably put us in 11th to 13th spot.

 

Though a win on Saturday, and with others not having easy games, we could move up to 11th. In that case hopefully Villa can then take points off Sunderland on the Monday. That would leave us facing WBA the following game with a chase at WHU and Swansea .... who unfortunately both have home games against Reading to come so on paper 11th place may look to be a fair shout. Even then I think we would need at least one win and a couple of draws.

 

Bottom of this table gives us £3.2m - top, £9.6m

9 Swansea City331012114342142
10 West Ham United34119144047-742
11 Fulham341010144452-840
12 Southampton34912134754-739
13 Norwich City34814123353-2038
14 Sunderland34910153845-737
15 Stoke City34813133041-1137
16 Newcastle United34107174360-1737
17 Aston Villa34810163663-2734

 

 

 

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I like your perspective here City1st. Many other threads are still talking about what we need to avoid the drop. I myself take a similar mindset to you and like to think of how far up the table we can finish.I see us finishing with 45 points with the results as such:A draw away at Stoke - Simply based on how Stoke play and how we play on the road.A win at home against Aston Villa - which will condemn to a last minute survival fight.A win at home against WBA - It''ll be the last home game of the season and I feel the crowd will be all in. A loss at Man City because we''ll be on the road, Man city are better than us and we''ll already be safe.I would be very happy with an 11th place finish. Anything more than that is gravy. Less than 13th and I would be disappointed. Regardless, finishing above Aston Villa and Newcastle would bring a smile to my face.

I think that was a more intelligent response to your post than my first thought which was, "it depends on what you''re smokin''".

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I think its high time this "how high can we finish" malarky was given a rest.  Even me as a supposed Mr Positive can see that the precariousness of our position has been the main issue these last few weeks.   We are by the skin of our teeth just above hot water, but it''s not done and dusted yet, if Wigan win their game in hand.   We are four points above the drop zone and need to be four points clear by the last game of the season for the last game not to matter.    So we are on the minimum level we need to be at.  Of the three important games coming up - Stoke and Villa will be desparate for the points - and so should we, as if we let Stoke or Villa get points off us and Wigan win their games, we will be back in the mix.   Strange results happen at this time of the season.     Not trying to spoil the party, just trying to show  that there isn''t one!

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City 1st,You must be mad to want Villa to take points off Sunderland. Surely we need Sunderland to thrash them to provide us with a healthy buffer back to Villa and their worse GD. Of course, if we were to beat Stoke, we could forget about the threat from Villa/Wigan.

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more old bollox from LDC (and other dimwits over the past couple of weeks)

 

or perhaps you can explain where I claimed there was any party (I didn''t) or how avoiding this supposed relegation threat by winning points, those points cannot be factored into any possible position higher in the table ?

 

or if, as I pondered, we win at Stoke the we are not allowed to move higher in the table

 

we truly have entered an Alice in Wondrland world with the stupidity that gets bleated out by the pantwetters

 

"Surely we need Sunderland to thrash them to provide us with a healthy buffer back to Villa and their worse GD. Of course, if we were to beat Stoke, we could forget about the threat from Villa/Wigan"

 

I think you have answered your own question.

 

The bottom line is that some of the ever so ''umble and the pantwetters are still hoping that the same board that grabbed us by the scruff of the neck and ruthlessly pushed us through two promotions will now happily stop that behaviour. Will turn down an extra £6.4m ''cos it ain''t for the likes of huz guv'', will not expect every player to give their all over the next four games and burst a gut to get the maximum points possible.

 

Well I''m afraid they are going to be bitterly disappointed - and, as that determined attitude continues, then so will the speculation of how far up the table we can finish will also continue.

 

ps last season we went to Arsenal knowing we were ''safe''. I saw a team that fought and battled to win and deservedly got a draw. Wring your caps and look into the gutter as much as you like, that same attitude is still there and there''s still plenty to play for, not least £6.4m.

 

 

 

 

 

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Just get over the frigging line for now. We can aim for higher next season.

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City 1st,Are you always this grumpy? I must say that you seem to live in a very black or white universe where everybody is either a pant wetter or non-pant wetter. What about people who dont wear pants or the habitually incontinet? Life is sometimes a bit more complex than this and there is plenty of room on this board for a whole diversity fo opinions. For the record, I have never thought that we would go down, bit only a fool would turn down a free insurance policy in terms of teams below us losing. I am hoping that Spurs and Sunderland win this weekend, whatever the result we achieve at Stoke. Also, I would assume that whatever additional bonus we get from higher league placings is offset by a healthy increase in player pool bonuses. If not, we will end paying 22% corporation tax on it anway, so your estimate needs to be atken in consideration of these factors.

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LDC, although I understand the sentiments of what you say,  there is, of course, a scenario where we don''t necessarily need to be 4 points clear by the final game to give us a relaxing final day of the season. If A.Villa and Wigan are both behind us going into the last Sunday, and one of them 2 points behind and the other at least one point behind, then we are safe beforehand. They meet each other in the last game, and can''t both overtake us in that situation. A good result at Stoke, then we can start to look upward hopefully, although I think the next 2 are huge 6-pointers really. I now it''s how the premier league tends to pan out, but It''s still pretty amazing that there is a staggering 42 points difference between 1st and 9th, yet only 5pts between 9th and 16th. there''s a very thin line between mid-table respectability and relegation angst - which for Norwich has been caused by little more than a couple of very poor decisions by officials.

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"A good result at Stoke, then we can start to look upward "

 

dearie, dear me

 

so the points gained on Saturday do not count towards moving us up the table ?

 

in fact we are in 16th place rather than 13th, because we are still in a ''relegation battle''

 

 

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[quote user="lake district canary"] We are by the skin of our teeth just above hot water, but it''s not done and dusted yet[/quote]At the end of the day, we are a stone''s throw from the relegation trapdoor.

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I''ll play City1st.

I can''t honestly see us getting more than about 5 points from the next 4 games - 1 win, two draws and a loss. Our form has been terrible, and while we can all debate till we''re blue in the face about whether we are safe or not (pretty sure we are), beating the worst team in the league (by one goal in unconvincing win at home) after a run of one win in 17 does not suggest you will suddenly leap up the table.

I can see us achieving this:

Stoke - Draw

Villa - Win

WBA - Draw

Man City - Loss

That would put us on 43 points and i honestly can''t see us achieving more, in fact i wouldn''t be surprised if we draw the next three games. I can''t be bothered to work out where we could potentially finish based on that and other results, but probably about where we are I would imagine.

Threads like this and all the pantwetting comments noticeably dried up prior to the Reading win. I imagine before that game if you''d offered the majority of norwich fans 17th at that point they would have bit your arm off. If you don''t agree I think you''re either deluded or a liar.

I''d love to see us charge up the league in our remaining fixtures but I have seen little on field evidence that suggests we are likely to do so.

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"At the end of the day, we are a stone''s throw from the relegation trapdoor"

or as you said earlier

"but we''ll beat Reading, draw with Villa and all will be well"

 

ps we are only four points from 9th and yet 7 points from this imagined trapdoor,

 

pps what fans will accept and what the club are aiming for are not necessarily the same thing - the real delusion is in the belief they are

 

 

 

 

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we''re the same amount of points from relegation as we are from 8th.

I don''t understand where all the pant wetting is still coming from.

we had a good game v swansea

a very unfortunate game v arsenal

and a good win v reading.

we''re on good form, and if it is to continue, why not have the outlook of ''how high we can finish"?

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http://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/norwich_city_boss_chris_hughton_still_targeting_40_points_to_secure_premier_league_status_after_reading_win_1_2161165

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"pps what fans will accept and what the club are aiming for are not necessarily the same thing - the real delusion is in the belief they are"

I do not believe for a minute that Chris Hughton''s brief for this year was anything other than keeping us in this league. Your suggestion that it is delusion to think that the clubs mindset was anything other than safety this year is questionable at best.

Of course the club want to finish as high as possible, they won''t have said achieve safety and then we really don''t care if you can''t be arsed after that. But I again say that I cannot believe that the managers brief at the start of the season was to achieve anything other than safety.

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[quote user="City1st"]

"At the end of the day, we are a stone''s throw from the relegation trapdoor"

or as you said earlier

"but we''ll beat Reading, draw with Villa and all will be well"

 

ps we are only four points from 9th and yet 7 points from this imagined trapdoor,

 

pps what fans will accept and what the club are aiming for are not necessarily the same thing - the real delusion is in the belief they are

[/quote]Let''s look at the context of my post again...[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="lake district canary"] We are by

the skin of our teeth just above hot water, but it''s not done and

dusted yet[/quote]At the end of the day, we are a stone''s throw from the relegation trapdoor.[/quote]Perhaps it would have been more obvious if I''d said"At the end of the day, we are a stone''s throw from the relegation trapdoor but until the fat lady sings we have to count our blessings and keep plugging away to keep the wolf from the door."

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Your suggestion that it is delusion to think that the clubs mindset was safety this year is questionable at best I meant.

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unfortunately you cannot keep pluggin away or aim for this hallowed ''safety'' without  picking points which risks that most darstardly of horrors .... climbing the table

 

you cannot seperate the two

 

or perhaps there is really some bizarre rule beloved or wished for by the ''ever so ''umble'' whereby points gained DO NOT count towards a possible climb up the table

 

 

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oh dear

 

you of all people Mr Ron

 

still. you can never tell

 

 

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I''m with City1st on this- I believe we''ve been playing well even if we''ve not been getting the results.We got completely screwed by Richard ****ing West at the Emirates (could find fault with all 3 of their goals) and had we held on we''d have got a well deserved 3 points.We played well against Swansea and away at Sunderland as well- lest we forget we were screwed by the Officials then as well!Hell I went to Wigan as well and we should''ve won there! I''m not looking at the relegation zone anymore as a) I believe we''re safe now b)had it not been for some VERY questionable decison making in our games at Sunderland and the Emirates we''d be have a lot more points on the board. I honestly believe that had we got the results our play at the Emirates and Sunderland warranted we''d be top half (or on the brink of it) now.Lets aim for the top half! We''re good enough.

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Yet again you fantastically miss the point.

You used the words "what the club are aiming for".

Go look in the dictionary if you must, but to save time the definition of aim in this context is a desired outcome.

I would suggest that the clubs desired outcome at the start of the season was to remain in the PL. That is a quantifiable objective, winning as many games and getting as many points as you can is not.

If Norwich finish 12th again or better, will the club be pleased? won''t all of the supporters? However I sincerely doubt that the Clubs aim this year was to finish 12th, it was to not be relegated, all the rhetoric of past months points to that.

Of course the way to not be relegated is to win games, and the more you win the less chance of the former. If we finish 12th as opposed to 17th have we in both cases achieved the aim? Yes. Just because we have achieved the aim do we stop trying to win games and climb the table? No.

Businesses have profit goals, when they achieve them do they stop trying to make profit?

Your argument is nonsensical, I don''t really understand why you are trying to devolve maintaining premier league status from winning games, until the former is achieved the latter is required. Once the former is achieved doesn''t mean you stop trying to do the latter.

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Oddly enough, City 1st, I am generally in sympathy with your sentiments.

But you''re just so needlessly, pointlessly, aggressive.

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Mr. Chops, perhaps next time you might enclose your posts in tags so that City1st can reel his neck in for a short while and save us all some internet bytes.

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[quote user="I.S."]Mr. Chops, perhaps next time you might enclose your posts in tags so that City1st can reel his neck in for a short while and save us all some internet bytes.[/quote]

 

oh dear

 

oh dearie dear me

 

I think the word is whooooosh

 

but that might require explaining as well

 

 

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Yes, exactly why does it have 5 "o"s rather than the usual pair?

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Blimey, they are all out tonight

 

sadly for the ever so umble they still haven''t explained how you can set about a task of achieving an undefinable number of points without setting out to maximise the the number of points gained

please explain to the less dim what they would have done were the club to have an aim of achieving as many points as possible and aimimg to avoid relegation

 

whilst the witless go away and scratch their heads here''s something for the rest

 

 

the clubs pronouncements at the beginning of the previous Championship season was one of consolodation yet it was quite clear fairly early on that promotion was the one thing they had in mind - Foulgers £2m ''loan'' was evidence of that

no board is going to be daft enough to put up unnecessary targets that they have ;ittle to gain by  - but from the horses mouth so to speak as high up the table as possible has been the watchword, whatever pandering to the public might have been printed

 

 

 

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Haha, the use of witless is one of my favourites in another of your well thought out and constructive arguments.

"I have always felt it would take around the 40 point mark" Chris Hughton 4 days ago

"Everyone is looking to get to 40 points, so we would like to get there to" Chris Hughton Dec 2012

In fact just google Chris Hughton 40 points and see how often 40 points has been mentioned by our manager as the target. But you''re right the amount of points has never been clearly defined......

Oh and of course the club tries to pull the wool over us supporters with constant pandering to our low expectations while secretly they plan to....oh get up the table as quickly as possible, devious. Who''d have thought they would want to get the defined safety point as quickly as possible? Surely leave it till the last weekend? no wasted effort and all that.

Does the board really consider survival an unnecessary target? Please tell me more from your secret well connected ties to the horses mouth, or is it bulls arse? i''m confused.

Oh and once again, just because you have an aim and reach it doesn''t mean you can''t surpass it.

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How high can we finish? As you say, 8th or 9th.

How low could we finish? 18th.

How high do we want to finish? As high as possible

How high should we aim to finish? As high as possible.

What are most people most preoccupied with at this time? Banishing the dwindling prospect of relegation completely.

How high is City 1st''s horse? Very.

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Reading this thread, it seems quite clear that City1st is a very angry person. I dare say their day is divided between totally missing the point on here, and screaming at ever so ''umble people on Deal Or No Deal that decide to take the money when they could have hypothetically had more.

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