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Hannibal II

Hughton and away games

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I have in previous years been to as many away games as i can muster usually about 10 or so but i have decided now i will no longer be wasting my money on away games so long as Hughton is our manager. I am completely at a loss as to why i should be paying £100, or there abouts to go to an away game when our manager does not even set out his team to try and win the game. It is such a contrast to the way we played football last season where we attacked teams and played to a majority of our players strengths. I was proud to be a Norwich fan last year with the way we played, this year i am almost disgusted with the way we play. It seems we are fast becoming the new Stoke and if this is so i shall give up my season ticket too. Norwich have always had a tradition of being a proper footballing side but If we go 1-0 down nowi think to myself "well thats it we are not going to score two goals in a game" where as before i have always felt we had that ability.

It is not that i dislike Hughton as a man or even as a manager for another team. I just feel his footballing philosophy is not one i agree with or how i would like my team to play.

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The football under Lambert was spectacular, but deep down most people would have realised that would come to an end at some point. It was always a case of savouring it while it was there. And boy did we get our money''s worth then. Only when it''s gone do you realise what you had.

It''s a bit like some wild, passionate, holiday romance. You know it won''t last forever and when it''s gone you always pine for what you can never get back. Is it really wise to compare all future lovers to that joyful summer fling?

No. You can remember the good times but you have to move on with the reality of life, however dull and mundane at times that may turn out to be. Move on, concentrate on the future and who knows, you just might find that there are some good times ahead after all.

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The simple answer is don''t go then. I am sure the players could do without fans that sit at games and moan all game. And remember to take off the rosy tinted glasses. A large part of last season wasn''t that great. I am sure Super Lambert got the odd booing by the end. Probably by you?!

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[quote user="Herman "]The simple answer is don''t go then. I am sure the players could do without fans that sit at games and moan all game. And remember to take off the rosy tinted glasses. A large part of last season wasn''t that great. I am sure Super Lambert got the odd booing by the end. Probably by you?![/quote]

 

I''m sure the players couldn''t give a toss either way.

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There were lots of positives from Lambert''s reign, playing "catch up" by conceding the first goal and absence of "clean sheets" were the negative side. Hughton is building a side on sound foundations and tactics. At times its not pretty but i have lost that fear factor when facing Premier League sides. He does seem to be a man tormented by this as well. He was after all a Spurs not a Stoke player so he knows how he wants to play but at the moment he does not have the players to reflect the real Hughton.

To play the way we do you need clinical goal scorers from all positions to take advantage of any chance we get, that is what is missing for me at the moment..

H

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Well don''t bother then. There''s plenty of us that don''t have any intention of just flouncing off so I doubt you''ll be missed. I for one will still go to any I can, have a decent day out and get behind the boys. Unless cash, work commitments, health etc prevent you from going to games then a true supporter will stick by their side through all weathers. I''m actually in a situation where as of the 1st April i''ll only get one and a half weekends off a month so am totally gutted I won''t get to many games next season.

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[quote user="Hannibal II"]I have in previous years been to as many away games as i can muster usually about 10 or so but i have decided now i will no longer be wasting my money on away games so long as Hughton is our manager. I am completely at a loss as to why i should be paying £100, or there abouts to go to an away game when our manager does not even set out his team to try and win the game. It is such a contrast to the way we played football last season where we attacked teams and played to a majority of our players strengths. I was proud to be a Norwich fan last year with the way we played, this year i am almost disgusted with the way we play. It seems we are fast becoming the new Stoke and if this is so i shall give up my season ticket too. Norwich have always had a tradition of being a proper footballing side but If we go 1-0 down nowi think to myself "well thats it we are not going to score two goals in a game" where as before i have always felt we had that ability.

It is not that i dislike Hughton as a man or even as a manager for another team. I just feel his footballing philosophy is not one i agree with or how i would like my team to play.[/quote]

Did you go to Swansea??

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having made us harder to beat by improving the defence, we do not have the players to easily give it a go away from home. Successful away sides defend and hit teams on the break. we have no pace whatsoever in the squad so cannot do this. Our short term options are to shore things up and try and nick a few points and the 10 points or so we have got away from home will make a massive contribution to survival. I am confident as discused before that we will bring in some better quality players in the closed season, more clinical finishers and hopefully some pace which should start to give us a better return on our travels next season

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I couldn''t have put it better myself Hacker.

We got some serious thumpings under Lambo last season away, at the etihad we were a total shambles. The last 10 games of the season we were struggling a bit but our strong start had already got the job done. Don''t get me wrong, I went to some cracking away games, the 3-2 at Swansea sticks in my mind the most, but don''t paint Lambert as this ''all-out attack'' merchant. As I''ve said on another thread, the difference between Hughton and Lambert is far smaller than most might like to think it is. If you compare Hughton''s Newcastle record (102pts, 90 goals scored) with Lambert''s Villa record (11 goals in 14 home games this season), who then would you say is the ''attacking'' manager?

And if your attendance at NCFC matches is dependent on their football philosophy, you better find something else to do. There are plenty of us that went to virtually every PL away game under Worthington (we won none that season), saw away defeat after defeat under Grant and Roeder in The Championship, yet still continued to back the team. That''s what real fans do.

I''m off to Wigan at the end of the month, can''t wait for a trip out with my mates, a few beers and hopefully a point or three. OTBC

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Just thinking about a few more of those Lambo away days, who can forget our dreadful display at Sunderland? We were also awful at Stoke, Blackburn and Fulham, the latter of which I went to and he got the tactics totally wrong, we were 2-0 down in about 15 minutes.

Let''s not forget the great performances at Swansea, Spurs and Arsenal. All I am saying is don''t portray last season''s away games under Lambert as being thrill-a-minute. They weren''t all like that.

Balance that to Hughton''s superb 4-3 win at Swansea, good points at Everton and Spurs. Yes we''ve been battered at Fulham, Liverpool and Man Utd. There''s been good and bad, just as under Lambert...

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There are a few of things i have an issue with from the above

Firstly i have said i will not be going it is simply not worth the money. That does not mean i am not a real fan or what ever bs you want to sprout. i am allowed my opinion and its up to me if i can justify spending money on sitting and watching something i am just not going to enjoy.

secondly we do not have a tighter defence we have conceded 1 more goal than at the same point last year and scored 11 less and 2 points worse off i hardly see that as progress.....

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"To play the way we do you need clinical goal scorers from all positions to take advantage of any chance we get, that is what is missing for me at the moment"

 

No, what is missing is chances. An over dependance on set pieces has been found out. We appear not to have a plan B, hence the two up front on Saturday which turned out not to be as Kamara seemed to be dropping back to try and get the ball most of the time. 

 

"The last 10 games of the season we were struggling a bit"

 

We achieved 1.1 points per game in the last ten games which would have given us 42 points, take the last nine games and that average would have given us 46.4 points over the season. Hardly struggling.

 

The reality is the apologists arguments are hollow. If this myth about Hughton being hampered by not having the players he needs to play his type of football then how did we achieve that 10 game unbeaten run. What players were they ? And do the current squad not have more of ''his'' players than the autumn squad.

 

I fear his tactics have been found out and at the moment we do not have alternative.

 

 

 

 

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I don''t necessarily want to criticise you as an individual, but you have basically started a post that says ''I''m not going to any more away games because of the team''s style''. That''s your choice, fair enough. I''ve watched most of the away games in the pub this season, they haven''t been that great for the most part, but if I could afford it I''d still go to every game and I''m really looking forward to Wigan. I went to a few away games last season, Swansea was great, Fulham was awful. I watched the rest on the telly in the pub and there was good and bad. That''s what football is like for the majority. If you''re not going to enjoy the game, don''t go. For me, it''s about more than just the game on an away day. And there''s always the chance, even this season, that you''ll get a spectacular game like Swansea.

I would say that the ''progress'' this season has been more about maintaining PL status, paying off all of our debts and ensuring a big slice of TV money pie next season. I don''t think anyone could realistically expect that we would accrue 60pts and be around the Europa League places this season. We did very well last year to get 47pts, to get a similar total or a few less this season still represents progress for the Club. We have certainly improved the squad. In Bassong, Turner, Snodgrass, Tettey and Garrido, and I suspect Whittaker, we have better players than last season''s equivalents. With another summer transfer window to come we should be able to build on that further and finally put together a wage and transfer budget which is larger than some of our rivals. Maybe then it will be realistic to expect us to obtain a points total in the 50''s rather than the 40''s.

 

 

 

 

 

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"To play the way we do you need clinical goal scorers from all positions to take advantage of any chance we get, that is what is missing for me at the moment"

 

No, what is missing is chances. An over dependance on set pieces has been found out. We appear not to have a plan B, hence the two up front on Saturday which turned out not to be as Kamara seemed to be dropping back to try and get the ball most of the time. 

 

"The last 10 games of the season we were struggling a bit"

 

We achieved 1.1 points per game in the last ten games which would have given us 42 points, take the last nine games and that average would have given us 46.4 points over the season. Hardly struggling.

 

The reality is the apologists arguments are hollow. If this myth about Hughton being hampered by not having the players he needs to play his type of football then how did we achieve that 10 game unbeaten run. What players were they ? And do the current squad not have more of ''his'' players than the autumn squad.

 

I fear his tactics have been found out and at the moment we do not have alternative.

 

err...are you seeking to use Hughton''s 10 game unbeaten as an argument against him?! I''ll argue this with you - the games at home v Stoke, West Ham, Wigan etc earlier in the season were not much different to the recent games v Newcastle, Fulham and Southampton. It''s all about the odd moment. I didn''t think we played well against Everton but we won with late goals and everyone was coming out and saying ''what a great game''. I don''t see that things have changed that much since early season.

Again, if his tactics have been ''found out'', how is it that we continue to avoid defeat more often than not?

I''ll concede to your somewhat pedantic analysis of 1.1pts per game for the last 10 games of last season. I suppose I wasn''t including our 2-0 success against an Aston Villa pub team on the last day. If you don''t include that it becomes an average of 0.89pts per game, relegation form in other words. But perhaps I should have entered an Aston Villa caveat in my initial post...

 

 

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Fine words Beefy but they totally miss the point, whilst adding in a few misdirections.

 

The gripe many seem to be having is related to the type of football. A type that in the past 12 games has seen us take 8 points out of 12, which would have us currently on around 19 points and have us finish the season on 25 points. If it was only about maintaining PL status,  which is a pretty limited aim, then the past 12 games would see us fail miserably on that count.

 

Paying off our debt is a red herring. It was scheduled to be paid come what may, and if it was to be a factor how come it didn''t effect us during that ten match run wheras now it is some sort of justification. Likewise adding to the squad was going to happen and cannot be used to excuse the dismal recent run.

 

"finally put together a wage and transfer budget which is larger than some of our rivals"

 

If we finish lower than last season we will have LESS money prize money and will merely get the same TV money increase as everyone else. Money that was allocated for debt repayment will be available but we have no idea at this stage who will be our ''rivals''. Even then the determing factor will be how we are managed.

 

Something that the past 12 games give rise to serious concerns, so stop hiding behind this mythical promised land of the close season. Something has gone wrong and that won''t be fixed by wishful thinking.

 

 

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I can understand now why Newcastle got rid of him when they did to be honest. He is a fine manager to grind out the results but if we want anything more we may have to be brave and do the same.

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City 1st. - wise words. From what we''ve seen of McNally over the last 3.5 years I assume that, should we stay up, there will be a detailed post-mortem of the season as a whole, the outcome of which may, or may not, include both a review of the manager and his staff. If Hughton continues then we assume that it is the board''s belief that Hughton is best placed to secure a further PL season.

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Well done Highland Canary and City 1st. Maybe there is hope for peace in the Middle East.

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[quote user="Beefy is a legend"]

"To play the way we do you need clinical goal scorers from all positions to take advantage of any chance we get, that is what is missing for me at the moment"

 

No, what is missing is chances. An over dependance on set pieces has been found out. We appear not to have a plan B, hence the two up front on Saturday which turned out not to be as Kamara seemed to be dropping back to try and get the ball most of the time. 

 

"The last 10 games of the season we were struggling a bit"

 

We achieved 1.1 points per game in the last ten games which would have given us 42 points, take the last nine games and that average would have given us 46.4 points over the season. Hardly struggling.

 

The reality is the apologists arguments are hollow. If this myth about Hughton being hampered by not having the players he needs to play his type of football then how did we achieve that 10 game unbeaten run. What players were they ? And do the current squad not have more of ''his'' players than the autumn squad.

 

I fear his tactics have been found out and at the moment we do not have alternative.

 

err...are you seeking to use Hughton''s 10 game unbeaten as an argument against him?! I''ll argue this with you - the games at home v Stoke, West Ham, Wigan etc earlier in the season were not much different to the recent games v Newcastle, Fulham and Southampton. It''s all about the odd moment. I didn''t think we played well against Everton but we won with late goals and everyone was coming out and saying ''what a great game''. I don''t see that things have changed that much since early season.

Again, if his tactics have been ''found out'', how is it that we continue to avoid defeat more often than not?

I''ll concede to your somewhat pedantic analysis of 1.1pts per game for the last 10 games of last season. I suppose I wasn''t including our 2-0 success against an Aston Villa pub team on the last day. If you don''t include that it becomes an average of 0.89pts per game, relegation form in other words. But perhaps I should have entered an Aston Villa caveat in my initial post...

 

 

[/quote]

 

oh dear, dearie me

 

No. I am pointing out how is that the apologists are claiming that Hughton''s current failure is due to him not having the squad he likes yet it is the same squad that achieved a ten game unbeaten run. How difficult is that to grasp ?

 

So if it is not the squad therefore either we have changed, the opponents have changed or a combination of those both.

 

 I don''t see that things have changed that much since early season

 

But not since autumn, eh ?

 

"how is it that we continue to avoid defeat more often than not?"

 

We don''t, out of those 12 games we have lost six, that is not ''more often then not'' ... and we have only won one of them. And it is not a pedantic point where you are wrong. If you are going to post up arguments based of fact the get those facts right. As above, in this thread and elsewhere where you claimed Lambert didn''t get going until mid seasin in 09/10 ! And trying to back track is absurd. You might just as well say we would have remained unbeaten in 11/12 if we don''t include the games we lost. Or maybe you will tell us all we were ''struggling'' away to Arsenal and Spurs in that season.

 

Perhaps you could get a grown up or someone who can count to proof read your stuff before you post it up.

 

 

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[quote user="dpit"]Well done Highland Canary and City 1st. Maybe there is hope for peace in the Middle East.[/quote]

I have no conception that there is anything other than peace, harmony and consensus on here.

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I don''t really think there was any need for the last sentence there City1st. You''ve made some decent points prior to that, so why resort to the childishness that you appear to be attributing to myself?

My own view is that the level of performance is not a great deal different in the last 10 games to the 10 game unbeaten run. There are fine margins at this level, that''s why most managers treat those twin impostors of success and failure the same. We ground out a 1-0 v Stoke, the performance was no different to the draws prior v QPR and West Ham or the draws since, v Fulham, Newcastle and Southampton.

We''ve played well against Spurs at home during this supposed stage of ''tactics being found out''. We''ve played badly yet beaten Everton. I haven''t seen an enormous change in level of performance throughout the season. We''ve only lost one in our last 6 games, picking up 7pts, an average haul that would keep us up if translated across the whole season.

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