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Just how awful were England tonight...

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I actually thought the way the game played out and the performance was very similar to some earlier games in 2013 where we were having a good first half and just losing it after half time and failing to make any changes

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Lacked the Bradley Johnson figure to win the ball further up the pitch and a Turner to win the ball around the area.

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I thought they were pretty good first half, but shoddy second and clearly needed a change well before it happened. Tbh I care less and less about England games as they pass, club footy is far more important these days.

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May as well have played the same 11 as against San Marino, at least they were playing decent football

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Good first half but it took Hodgson a painfully slow 30 minutes to counter the oppositions tactical changes. Montenegro found a way to stop our fullbacks pushing forward so we became too narrow and toothless in attack, which allowed Montenegro to crawl all over us. Things improved a bit when Ashley Young came on for Cleverly, we actually had somebody who could attack their right back, instead of over relying on Milner beating their left back for crosses in the box (and lets face it, Milner isn''t exactly the quickest....). Hodgson needs to wake up and be more proactive, the points were there for the taking but Montenegro were allowed to play their game.

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We must have the most boring midfield in the world.

Milner, Barry, Cleverly - I''d rather watch paint dry

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Still don''t see what hodgson see''s in welbeck can''t pass can''t shoot his first touch is dreadful had two charges in the first half when he could have had a first time shot with players no where near him but had to have a first touch witch gave the opposition time to close him down witch he then lost the ball.

Have to agree with you AJ on the midfield with Barry and Milner.

Milner waste of time always try''s to dribble pass players all the time like he''s ronaldo or messi. Don''t think Barrys all that either.

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England played very good first half. Started brilliantly in a hostile environment and should have been 2 or 3 goals up. Carrick was class and added composure that has been lacked in the past when lampard and Gerard are paired together. Rooney also looked very good, finally a mature display from him. Cleverly and welbeck also had very good first halfs.

As for the second..... England were poor and Roy needed to change it sooner. Having said that we still went for it in the last few minutes and had 2/3 chances/efforts at goal that nearly nicked it.

All in all It was a positive performance in my eyes. Much better than the way we played in the euros. More exciting anyway. I think we''ll qualify still.

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[quote user="NCFC TIll I die"]Still don''t see what hodgson see''s in welbeck  [/quote]

Big enough and strong enough to hold the ball up but pacey enough to run in behind and stretch the defence. Links up play well, generally good understanding with Rooney.

 

Keeps defenders busy, causes them problems.

 

 

 

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Just how awful were England? I wouldn''t say that was awful at all. It was just average if anything, good first half, fairly bad second half. Average.

 

If they''d put in an excellent performance and won 5-0 would there have been a thread talking about how good they were?

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Yes I thought England were comfortably in control in the first half.  In the second Montenegro changed formations which stopped us going down the flanks, and were generally much more up for it and Hodgson didn''t respond.  Why leave Frank Lampard on the bench when you''re 1-0 up but losing the midfield battle ?  It beggars belief.

 

Right at the end England came back into it and could easily have got a winner at the end, but overall a draw was probably a fair reflection of the balance of play.

 

Nice thing for me was to think that we now have quite a few players who can comfortably play at this level.

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[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="NCFC TIll I die"]Still don''t see what hodgson see''s in welbeck  [/quote]

Big enough and strong enough to hold the ball up but pacey enough to run in behind and stretch the defence. Links up play well, generally good understanding with Rooney.

 

Keeps defenders busy, causes them problems.

 

 

 

[/quote]..poor first touch and complete lack of vision. unable to turn and change direction when receiving the ball. good running with the ball.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]Somebody please tell Woy that there is life outside Manchester and Liverpool.[/quote]

Liverpool? There were only 2 Liverpool players in the team and both of them should have been there.

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From a keepers point of view Joe Hart can''t kick a ball to save his life whether its from his hands or on the floor. Nine times out of ten the ball was going straight out for a throw & putting us back under pressure!!!!

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[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]Somebody please tell Woy that there is life outside Manchester and Liverpool.[/quote]

Liverpool? There were only 2 Liverpool players in the team and both of them should have been there.

[/quote]

Ten of the starting line up play in Manchester and Liverpool. He has had a love affair with Shelvey,Sterling and Henderson in the last 12 months as well remember.

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We had little answer when after the interval Montenegro stared to close down and tackle with greater intent, sometimes bordering on ruthless. Whether our players are too slow or are afraid of injury, I don''t know, but they were clearly disconcerted.

 

I know we had injuries - it could have been different with Wilshire, Lampard, Walcott, etc. playing, I believe, but I really don''t understand Hodgson''s loyalty to Cleverley and Milner, and Carrick clearly doesn''t relish the quick attacking play. I was also surprised when he brought on Youngs, rather someone like Oxlade-Chamberlain, who has real pace. Has the time come to pension off Gerard?

 

I felt sorry for the manager, with four central defenders out, and having to rely on two who struggle to get in their Premiership teams, and the two had a real struggle on their hands. What happened to the two lines of four which "Woy" used in the European finals? We never looked like scoring then, but at least we were hard to break down. Last night, with better finishing, Montenegro could have put three or four past us.

 

Most worrying of all is the message sent out - "to trouble England, get forward quickly and tackle ferociously. England can be undone - they have no asnwer to pace and their passing game collapses if the tackling is quick and hard!"  Poland and Ukraine, and even Moldova will have noticed!

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[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]Somebody please tell Woy that there is life outside Manchester and Liverpool.[/quote]

Liverpool? There were only 2 Liverpool players in the team and both of them should have been there.

[/quote]

Ten of the starting line up play in Manchester and Liverpool. He has had a love affair with Shelvey,Sterling and Henderson in the last 12 months as well remember.

[/quote]

Yes but the best players tend to play for the best and biggest clubs so it''s always likely he''ll look at them. Same as any other "major" football nation, most of their players will play for big clubs.

And so what? He''s had a look at three younger players who have all got the potential to have big futures and play a part for England.

 

 

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I think Welbeck is a decent enough player, he just lacks the ruthless goal instinct. There was one point near the start of the first half where the ball came to him just inside the box, fell lovely for a half volley first time effort at goal, but he backed off, let it bounce again, and then scuffed an effort when the defence had had time to close him down. The next picture the camera showed was of Rooney making a gesture to Welbeck as if to say "just hit it".

As for the Manchester/Liverpool debate, who would you have swapped in? The problem is simply that the English football pool is distinctly average at the moment.

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[quote user="Salopian"]

I was also surprised when he brought on Youngs, rather someone like Oxlade-Chamberlain, who has real pace. [/quote]

Ashley Young is quicker than AOC.

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[quote user="AJ"]We must have the most boring midfield in the world. Milner, Barry, Cleverly - I''d rather watch paint dry[/quote]

 

Bit unfair on Barry. He certainly wasn''t the worst.

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[quote user="NCFC TIll I die"]Still don''t see what hodgson see''s in welbeck can''t pass can''t shoot his first touch is dreadful had two charges in the first half when he could have had a first time shot with players no where near him but had to have a first touch witch gave the opposition time to close him down witch he then lost the ball. Have to agree with you AJ on the midfield with Barry and Milner. Milner waste of time always try''s to dribble pass players all the time like he''s ronaldo or messi. Don''t think Barrys all that either.[/quote]

 

See above.

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[quote user="GJP"][quote user="Salopian"]

I was also surprised when he brought on Youngs, rather someone like Oxlade-Chamberlain, who has real pace. [/quote]

Ashley Young is quicker than AOC.

[/quote]

What are their times for the 100 metres?

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Can''t do quotes, but for GJP:

Johnson breaks play up and gets forward - if only he could shoot on target he''d be a decent threat. Have to say Howson alongside him isn''t a thrill, but does the job, and Tettey is better in my eyes.

But the thing is beside that we have exciting players in Snoddy and Pilks down the flanks. England have, err.. well.. Milner.

Why on earth didn''t we start with Young, or Oxy-Chambers, or Lennon, or Walcott or someone with some kind of directness and pace.

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