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kingsway

Its not offensive style thats the problem, its the quality in the final 3rd!

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Todays game we were the better side apart from the final 3rd of the pitch hence the final score. We got into plenty of good attacking positions but either misplaced a pass, took too long, made the wrong decision, shot/headed wide, over ran the ball etc, combined with the ball not running for us!

 

People go on about the negative style of football but end of the day we had plenty of attacks in the Wigan game but didn''t do anything with them. More quality in the final third and we''d of won the game today!

 

This is why we''ve signed Wolfswinkel and will look to furhter strengthen the attacking options both in the strikers and midfielders!

 

Hopefully we can get over the line this season! 

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I''d disagree with you there and say that our offensive style is the problem, for me the "quality" in the final 1/3rd is a result of that style.

We are slow and predictable in build up, our full backs don''t overlap anymore to create space or provide another option and the central midfielders very rarely get anywhere near the opposition penalty area to provide support to the lone striker, which also means Wes has to drop deeper and deeper to get involved leaving the striker even more isolated.

All this means the man in possession has very limited options. A ball whipped into a dangerous area looks like a bad one if there''s no one there to attack it. We simply have to be more adventurous in the final 1/3 or we''re going to end up in real trouble.

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[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]We simply have to be more adventurous in the final 1/3 or we''re going to end up in real trouble.[/quote]But we are in "real trouble"

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It''s still in our hands currently. A win and 2 draws from Swansea, Reading & Villa and we''re probably over the line. Think it will take a change of attitude for us to get that win though.

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Totally agree, final 3rd has been a problem all season, hopefully now that we''re in the dogfight the players will have to take more risks in that final 3rd, we have no choice now but to shoot are way out.

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The quality and decision making of individuals is why we are where we are 17 th and above is all that matters. What annoys me is that I have believed we have had enough games where the motivation is clear, one win and we are almost there. It seems as if we are scare of getting over that line. That one penalty miss is haunting us.

But we move on we have a chance of three points at home. There is also an opportunity for the first team squad players, becchio, Whittaker to make a point that they can come in and. The system changes.

I would happily see kamara and becchio upfront. I want kk to get fit so he could play forward in an attacking line up as below.

Bunn

Martin turner bassong garrido

Whittaker tettey Johnson

Kk becchio Snodgrass

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Overlapping fullbacks is a big one for me. Garrido doesn''t appear to do it as much as when he started with us (tactics?) and Russ does is very sporadically. Whittaker was probably the best at it, but hasn''t had a chance to start since he left through injury. Be great to see him back. Also appears to be ahead of Russ in Scotland team

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Hmm I counted at least 5 overlapping from Garrido''s side, Martin ofc isn''t that comfortable with those runs, so he wont do them too often.

Problem for me is that after we are in situation where winger and fullback are in good crossing positions and opposite winger, striker and attacking middlefielder are in box or at the edge of it we have nothing behind them.

Johnson''s wallpass with Hoolahan is something I would like to see more. As our approach is very modern and we take our time to give the final pass we need our middlefield to bring some support.

Also Snoddy didnt look comfortable on lefthand side. We lose majority of his playing style when he doesnt have a threat of shooting and opponent just can cut his crossing.

Something that bothers me is that we very rarely try early crosses anymore. Now that we have slightly faster big fellow at top he wouldnt be so marked as he is with slower buildup.

Hoolahan released the ball few times early and both situations looked dangerous. Snoddy on the other hand waits too long with the ball and Bennet is too much about his speed.

Hopefuly Pilks is ok for next game.

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its surely both?

The quality of crosses yest was poor - leaving kei frustrated. However too often he was the only player in the box when we should be getting 3-4 of our 5 midfielders in and about the area.

with one target the level of accuracy needed goes up and the defenders job gets easier - putting more pressure on the crosser/passer.

Against spurs we were in the teams face - high up the pitch - we have not repeated that since. Do that and as well as being more likely to get the ball back we also have players closer to the goal.

Shift that back line forward 10-15 lines, high energy from tettey and bj inside swansea half with the front 4 pressing two and we will not lose that game

ps another great post lavanche - one touch passing is something we cant do and probably the one thing we miss from fox more than anything else - removing that touch before passing speeds the game up and puts pressure on the defence - you dont need foot speed if the ball is doing the work for you.

Sadly BJ & Howson are not really up to that as yest stats showed - below 75% pass success rate is embarrassing. But if you are going to lose it anyway why oh why not do so quickly!

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The defence''s line is a big one for me Zipper. And to some extent, I do believe that is the players themselves. You quite often see a manager in the last 10 minutes of a game imploring his defence to push out and not get caught too deep inside their box, and that is because the defenders feel more comfortable the deeper they get; nothing gets in behind and they back themselves to deal with anything in front of them. But it doesn''t particularly help the team as a whole, who would be far better defensively if they were squeezing the gap between defence and midfield and doing so on the halfway line! I''m sure an element of that is Hughton''s tactics, but I also think that a Bassong type player should be setting the line himself and organising the whole team off of that to be honest.

As for the final third; I think you can argue both here. The quality wasn''t brilliant last season either, but whereas this season a midfielder might have 2 or 3 chances a game to put in a quality ball, and the strikers might have 5 or so chances a game to put the ball in the net, last season it was double that number (for example).

So arguably we either need to get in more clinical players (both in terms of clinical finishing and providing that clinical final ball) or we need to create more chances. Hughton would seem to be preferring the first option where we bring in players of Van Wolfswinkel''s calibre, but that doesn''t particularly help us this year!

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I agree the defensive style of play has limited our attacks from what we were used to under the previous manager, but I watched yesterdays gam and we had plenty of attacks but didn''t do anything with them. Its not as if yesterday we wern''t attcking cause we certainly were!

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[quote user="kingsway"]

Todays game we were the better side apart from the final 3rd of the pitch hence the final score. We got into plenty of good attacking positions but either misplaced a pass, took too long, made the wrong decision, shot/headed wide, over ran the ball etc, combined with the ball not running for us!

 

People go on about the negative style of football but end of the day we had plenty of attacks in the Wigan game but didn''t do anything with them. More quality in the final third and we''d of won the game today!

 

This is why we''ve signed Wolfswinkel and will look to furhter strengthen the attacking options both in the strikers and midfielders!

 

Hopefully we can get over the line this season! 

[/quote]

Well said.

Clear out in the summer and hit the ground scoring next seson.

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Totally agree with Mr Brownstone. We do have the quality to hold our own in the "second tier" of the Premiership. It is Hughton''s negative tactics that has left us struggling and boring for most of the season. Actually it was proved yesterday as watching the game live we looked comfortable against a very poor Wigan side who looked there for the taking, albeit that we virtually had nothing to offer when we moved anywhere near their goal. But watching the MOTD highlights it appeared all Wigan. Why, well because BBC are mainly interested inthe goals and scoring chances and we never created anything. KK had little support apart from the hardworking  Snodgrass who I see as more of an attacking midfielder rather than forming part of a strikeforce. The remaining midfield players just never moved forward to provide support. I would agree that a degree of individual quality has been  lost since the departure of Culverhouse. Most players under Lambert improved from season to season. Now Howson, Holt, Benno and Hoolahan are shadows of their  former selves. I am not in particular favour of frequent changes of Manager, but Hughton and his team will simply not  take us anywhere. I just cannot see RVB making much difference unless tactics are significantly changed so that he receives full attacking support.

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A lot of what is being said here is spot on. But I''ll throw another thought into the frey.

Squad depth.

People go on about that ten game unbeaten run and what we miss is the likes of overlapping runs etc that we have rarely seen since, or have but not to the same effect.

We have recently had a few injuries and absentees such as Garrido, Whitaker, Pilkington and Tettey.

Despite playing the majority of last season I can''t help but feel that E. Bennett has really struggled this season. Sure he has found opportunities hard to come by but when he has played he hasn''t looked as disciplined as Pilkington and Snodgrass or given the same service to the strikers or threat to goal.

I''d say the only exception has been Howson who I think is starting to show the form of last season once more.

In terms of the overlapping runs - having played as a full back before, you are less inclined to overlap if the winger in front of you isn''t going to have one eye on covering you, or a central midfielder that will do that. If you haven''t played together down that side for a while you may be a bit more cautious in terms of trying that too.

Saying R.Martin isn''t keen to do it is a bit strange. I think he is one of the players that reads a game better, he scored twice against Man City - he seems to know when to commit and when not to.

For our next game I would actually try Whitaker down the right, give us a little more muscle in midfield and also someone who should link well with R.Martin and get those overlaps going down that side again.

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[quote user="chicken"]A lot of what is being said here is spot on. But I''ll throw another thought into the frey.

Squad depth.

People go on about that ten game unbeaten run and what we miss is the likes of overlapping runs etc that we have rarely seen since, or have but not to the same effect.

We have recently had a few injuries and absentees such as Garrido, Whitaker, Pilkington and Tettey.

[/quote]Garrido has played 29 of our 31 premiership games.  Whitaker is currently out of favor.  We have missed Pilkington and Tettey for sure.  But the depth is there.  Howson or Fox could play instead of Tettey.  But Howson has had a poor season.  Fox not getting a look in.  Pilks is a big miss, with Surman also injured who did a decent job on the left last season.[quote user="chicken"]Despite playing the majority of last season I can''t help but feel that E. Bennett has really struggled this season.[/quote]Two starts all season in his favoured role on the right side of midfield and a shed load of 5 minute cameos.  I agree, he has not done much, but really has had little or no chance this season.[quote user="chicken"]I''d say the only exception has been Howson who I think is starting to show the form of last season once more.[/quote]I can''t say Howson has done anything special this season. His passing is one dimensional and I don''t remember seeing him anywhere near the Wigan box the few times we did attack.[quote user="chicken"]Saying R.Martin isn''t keen to do it is a bit strange. [/quote]3 wins in 24 premiership starts for R Martin this season.  Martin has been a solid performer in the defense but Whittaker looked a real prospect linking up with Snodgrass that Martin does not.

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The depth really isn''t there and your responses help prove it.

Fox or Howson in for Tettey - and we lack something. Howson played his socks off in the Sunderland game, and has had a couple of really good performances recently.

But E.Bennett does not offer the same as Snodgrass or Pilkington.

I''d agree with Surman - I think we have missed him.

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The depth wasnt there but they played a lot better last season, what isn''t there is the belief from the players which was passed onto them from the management team!

Football has a lot to do with confidence and belief and at the moment we have little of both.

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Confidence and self belief grows from success and performance, we play an inhibited style of football and over the last few months the confidence has been drained from the team.

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The point of having 2 defensive midfielders is that the full backs should then overlap, they did on occasions yesterday, but we don''t do it enough.

There should be enough quality / depth in the squad, it is supposedly the best of last seasons plus 2 gk, 3 def, 3 midfielders & 2 fwds. The squad in my opinion hasn''t been managed / rotated as well. First choice players play, until form dips or injury. Last season full squad pretty much utilised and players stayed fresh.

Confidence has drained from the players, as a team we don''t support the player in possession of the ball well enough. As a consequence the only time we keep possession is in non dangerous areas. How many times has Hughton''s said we controlled large parts of the game, he is correct, but the possession / player support issue is why we don''t convert this to goalscoring opportunities.

Both Wigan & Sunderland were poor, and given we have 11 points on QPR & Reading, we still have an excellent chance of survival, 1 or 2 results is all that is needed. Our only win in 14 came about with 2 fwds on the pitch, which flipped the game on its head against Everton. We will need that courage again before the seasons out.

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Will we go for it against Swansea or will it be death by a thousand cuts!

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[quote user="chicken"]The depth really isn''t there and your responses help prove it.

Fox or Howson in for Tettey - and we lack something. Howson played his socks off in the Sunderland game, and has had a couple of really good performances recently.

But E.Bennett does not offer the same as Snodgrass or Pilkington.

I''d agree with Surman - I think we have missed him.[/quote]

We have won 1 premiership game all season out of the 15 Howson has started, Home to Everton.  Clearly the Howson - BJ central midfield is lacking something. My guess, poor distribution.As for Benno, I agree I don''t think he is at the same level as Pilks or Snodgrass.  But lets give him some credit, given game time in his prefered position, last season he grabbed 4 assists in 22(11) games.  For comparison Snodgrass this season has 4 in 28(2) games.

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You are being too harsh on Howson CJF - we have won 2 games from his 15 starts this year (swansea and everton) to go with his 3 last season.    His win rate overall is 19% of starts won,  27% last season and 13% this season.

 

Most damning though is in both seasons we have lost more than half of the games he has started (14 of the 26)  much worse than our results without him in the team.

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