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can u sit down please

A few points to consider

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Driving home today felt like a defeat. As did last week at QPR. We easily couldve had 6 pts but instead its 2. Im normally a positive person, glass half full type. But today coupled with what i have watched recently has made me feel extremely bored. We seem to have lost a spark. Our momentum from the last 3 years has well and truly disappeared. I would just like to jot down some points to see if people agree or whether i am on my own....I am not a binner and i will always watch City so save your insults if you feel like chucking them at me. I will happily accept anything constructive and have a good old fashioned debate with anyone!We have become extremely defensive. Whether Man City, Chelsea, Fulham, Stoke or QPR we approach games exactly the same. 4231 is an extremely fashionable formation used by all the big guns in world football and probably 90% of teams in this league.This formation is killing us. On paper is looks right but on the pitch its making us look dull and impotent. Most teams when playing 4231 normally play with a creative midfielder and a destroyer as the 2 holding men. The creative man will demand the ball from the back four dictate the tempo and penetrate the opposition. While the defensive man will protect the back 4,cover any gaps that may appear and give the ball simply to the creative player to pull the strings.Whilst i rate Johnson & Tettey, the 2 cannot play together (maybe away from home) at home against Fulham or any team of that ilk. Neither player are allowed to get forward and neither can dictate the tempo of the game. Due to the nature of the 2 player,s we are being extremely defensive and setting up with 6 at the back. There is no link to the attacking players meaning that when we break our forwards is isolated. Add to that our lack of pace and it really does look like square pegs in round holes.The team is crying out for a Fox type player, a better version than him though.We had a great midfielder last year called Jonny Howson, does anyone know of his whereabouts? If only he was allowed to play his natural game. Its ok to bring in Hooper but would he honestly get any chances? For me, the players you have at your disposal should dictate the formation you play. The players should not be made to fit a formation. We will never see its return but these lads excelled playing the diamond. It was tried and tested.I think Hughton has tried to change too much in our approach. Last year was successful and our manager wasnt sacked. The phrase "if its not broke" springs to mind. He should have carried on what worked for us.Have Laudrup & Steve Clark made sweeping changes to their teams? No, they stuck with the foundations laid and they have been able to build on what was done. Why havent we kicked on in the way that they have?People talk about money in this league, those 2 teams havent spent big. They have bought players to fit their way. Just imagine Bassong, Turner, Garrido and Snoddy in the diamond! We would have the solidity we craved and a better attacking threat.  Its so frustrating! Evolution not revolution....We have now scored only 2 goals in 6 games. I think we are very lucky that there are some poor teams in the league this year. Any other year and we would be in a big dog fight.Not that we are clear yet.....Finally can people please stop saying look how far we have come. We have moved on. We are where we are on merit. We deserve to be here. Lets try and kick on!

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That''s a truly excellent post CUSDP and eloquently sums up all my frustrations. However, I dont think Fox is the answer, we simply need a better version of BJ/AT who can pass as well as defend. Lets hope this is just a holding strategy until CH can bring in better players in the summer and let''s hope that Ewan Chester is already working on targets to avoid the anxiety of the last window again.

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[quote user="Desert Fox"]That''s a truly excellent post CUSDP and eloquently sums up all my frustrations. However, I dont think Fox is the answer, we simply need a better version of BJ/AT who can pass as well as defend. Lets hope this is just a holding strategy until CH can bring in better players in the summer and let''s hope that Ewan Chester is already working on targets to avoid the anxiety of the last window again.[/quote]Cheers fella''s.Ive wanted to post this for weeks but havent had the time. We do need a better version of Fox. Someone that springs to mind is Moussa Sissoko at Newcastle. Only cost a couple of million!

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Superp post, and it mirrors my thoughts exactly.

If only the rest of the happy clappers on this board can see the same. Instead we are served the usual "look how far we have come", "we¨re little old Norwich", etc.

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Excellent post CUSDP. It certainly sums up my frustrations at the moment.I like going to football to be entertained, and we''ve had too many performances this season that have been far from entertaining.

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[quote user="Grant Holts 3 year contract"]McNally OUT.We should have risked our future by spending money that we dont have!It''s not like we''re 8 clear and 14th.. oh..[/quote]Great constructive post. Did i say we needed to spend more? We have actually spent a fair bit.The post has nothing to do with money!

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[quote user="can u sit down please"]This formation is killing us. On paper is looks right but on the pitch its making us look dull and impotent. Most teams when playing 4231 normally play with a creative midfielder and a destroyer as the 2 holding men. The creative man will demand the ball from the back four dictate the tempo and penetrate the opposition. While the defensive man will protect the back 4,cover any gaps that may appear and give the ball simply to the creative player to pull the strings.Whilst i rate Johnson & Tettey, the 2 cannot play together (maybe away from home) at home against Fulham or any team of that ilk. Neither player are allowed to get forward and neither can dictate the tempo of the game. Due to the nature of the 2 player,s we are being extremely defensive and setting up with 6 at the back. There is no link to the attacking players meaning that when we break our forwards is isolated. Add to that our lack of pace and it really does look like square pegs in round holes.The team is crying out for a Fox type player, a better version than him though.We had a great midfielder last year called Jonny Howson, does anyone know of his whereabouts? If only he was allowed to play his natural game. Its ok to bring in Hooper but would he honestly get any chances? For me, the players you have at your disposal should dictate the formation you play. The players should not be made to fit a formation. [/quote]You know I agree with the rest of your post CUSP. I am in whole-hearted agreement.The midfield issue annoys me the most. When Tettey joined, we looked a like a new team. It was because him and Bradley played fantastic midfield-pivot games against Arsenal and Man U (the Arsenal goal came from a Tettey driven shot and the Man U goal started from winning the ball quite high up the pitch). Both moved in tandem and they seemed to have authority to join in attack if the other covered. It gave us added movement upfront and usually an out ball (either backward to the holder or forwards to a late arriving midfielder). Since then both players have obviously been told to sit deeper. This may be due to fatigue (Hughton not using his squad) or because we are setting out to be more defensive and less pressing. Whatever the reason, we have lost all drive going forward. We struggle to pass through the middle as our players get marked out of the game due to lack of movement.This frustrates me no end as we know that Johnson can sometimes make a great final ball (Sunderland) and is good in the air as a late arrival (multiple goals). Tettey has a fantastic shot on him (Burnley, Arsenal) and technical ability on the ball. We are wasting these two by playing them so deep. But we are also wasting Snodgrass and Hoolahan by asking them to drop so deep to get the ball. They need it in the final third. Not when they have to beat 11 players to get to the box.

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I''m a positive supporter too, as are many who sit around me, however 9 games without a win is understandably giving some cause for concern, I don''t think we''ve actually looked like, or really deserved to win any of those 9 either.

I agree with the CUSDP that the root of our troubles is the Johnson/Tettey central midfield partnership. That partnership generally works really well away from home, or against the top sides at FCR where we''re not expected to make the running, we sit back, defend well as a unit and hit teams on the counter. It''ll probably do the job against attacking teams like we were last year such as Southampton and Reading too.

The problem we have, and where this partnership doesn''t seem to work, is against sides who come here happy to get a point where we have to take the game to them. This is when we need a plan B. I have no issue with the formation itself, it allows us to get the best from Wes and gives us 2 attacking wingers, but games like today are crying out for Fox or Howson to partner either Johnson or Tettey in my opinion.

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[quote user="Fellas"][quote user="can u sit down please"]This formation is killing us. On paper is looks right but on the pitch its making us look dull and impotent. Most teams when playing 4231 normally play with a creative midfielder and a destroyer as the 2 holding men. The creative man will demand the ball from the back four dictate the tempo and penetrate the opposition. While the defensive man will protect the back 4,cover any gaps that may appear and give the ball simply to the creative player to pull the strings.Whilst i rate Johnson & Tettey, the 2 cannot play together (maybe away from home) at home against Fulham or any team of that ilk. Neither player are allowed to get forward and neither can dictate the tempo of the game. Due to the nature of the 2 player,s we are being extremely defensive and setting up with 6 at the back. There is no link to the attacking players meaning that when we break our forwards is isolated. Add to that our lack of pace and it really does look like square pegs in round holes.The team is crying out for a Fox type player, a better version than him though.We had a great midfielder last year called Jonny Howson, does anyone know of his whereabouts? If only he was allowed to play his natural game. Its ok to bring in Hooper but would he honestly get any chances? For me, the players you have at your disposal should dictate the formation you play. The players should not be made to fit a formation. [/quote]You know I agree with the rest of your post CUSP. I am in whole-hearted agreement.The midfield issue annoys me the most. When Tettey joined, we looked a like a new team. It was because him and Bradley played fantastic midfield-pivot games against Arsenal and Man U (the Arsenal goal came from a Tettey driven shot and the Man U goal started from winning the ball quite high up the pitch). Both moved in tandem and they seemed to have authority to join in attack if the other covered. It gave us added movement upfront and usually an out ball (either backward to the holder or forwards to a late arriving midfielder). Since then both players have obviously been told to sit deeper. This may be due to fatigue (Hughton not using his squad) or because we are setting out to be more defensive and less pressing. Whatever the reason, we have lost all drive going forward. We struggle to pass through the middle as our players get marked out of the game due to lack of movement.This frustrates me no end as we know that Johnson can sometimes make a great final ball (Sunderland) and is good in the air as a late arrival (multiple goals). Tettey has a fantastic shot on him (Burnley, Arsenal) and technical ability on the ball. We are wasting these two by playing them so deep. But we are also wasting Snodgrass and Hoolahan by asking them to drop so deep to get the ball. They need it in the final third. Not when they have to beat 11 players to get to the box.[/quote]Spot on Fellas. Howson is also wasted. Last year he was brilliant but he''s being asked to sit far too deep when he starts.

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Sorry but I can''t agree with all this negativity. I think we are playing the best team we have available. Fox, Howson, Jacko etc have all been tried and fail to impress when given a start. Yes, we might score a few more goals if we played the diamond or two up front but we would undoubtedly concede more. I can understand that some people would prefer a 3-3 to a goalless draw but its still a point at the end of the day.The object this season of all seasons is to stay in the league. I don''t particularly care how Hughton achieves that goal but if it''s grinding out 0-0''s I am more than happy with that. We have 29 points and as long as our defence remains injury free I don''t see us conceding many and that always give you a chance of picking up points.Expansive play is for another season when hopefully we will have a few more quality players. For now grinding out out the remaining 9 or 10 points required is the ONLY thing that really matters.

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CUSDP - you have summed up the current situation very well.  It just depends on your own point of view whether that is good enough for this season before letting Hughton develop the squad further over the summer.  During the transfer most people were demanding changes to the front line, some back up for the defence, but not many were demanding for something new in midfield.  As you highlight, a ball playing but good tackling defensive midfielder would have been perhaps a better target.  However how many Sissoko''s are out there (And what help was he today at WHL?).  Perhaps there aren''t any available - in that case why don''t we try another system against the weaker teams - at least for half an hour in one match.  For now we have what we have.  We could do with some more flexibility in the current set up though.

 

Hughton is hanging all his hopes that some point our work in the attacking third will pay off.  To date however we have relied on set pieces, we have created very few goals from open play.  Today Snoddy was poor in this department.  Yes he worked hard, but the quality of his dead ball delivery was woeful - I think that was what Hughton was most upset about in his post match comments.   So why not give someone else a chance, Garrido or EBenno?  Another sign of the inflexible nature of Hughton''s current set up. 

 

A point to come versus Everton, a loss at Old Trafford is probably all we can expect in next two games.  Will the bottom three have similar returns?  If they better it then further experimentation will probably be necessary.

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[quote user="can u sit down please"][quote user="Fellas"][quote user="can u sit down please"]
This formation is killing us. On paper is looks right but on the pitch its making us look dull and impotent. Most teams when playing 4231 normally play with a creative midfielder and a destroyer as the 2 holding men. The creative man will demand the ball from the back four dictate the tempo and penetrate the opposition. While the defensive man will protect the back 4,cover any gaps that may appear and give the ball simply to the creative player to pull the strings.

Whilst i rate Johnson & Tettey, the 2 cannot play together (maybe away from home) at home against Fulham or any team of that ilk. Neither player are allowed to get forward and neither can dictate the tempo of the game.

Due to the nature of the 2 player,s we are being extremely defensive and setting up with 6 at the back. There is no link to the attacking players meaning that when we break our forwards is isolated. Add to that our lack of pace and it really does look like square pegs in round holes.

The team is crying out for a Fox type player, a better version than him though.We had a great midfielder last year called Jonny Howson, does anyone know of his whereabouts? If only he was allowed to play his natural game. Its ok to bring in Hooper but would he honestly get any chances?

For me, the players you have at your disposal should dictate the formation you play. The players should not be made to fit a formation.
[/quote]

You know I agree with the rest of your post CUSP. I am in whole-hearted agreement.

The midfield issue annoys me the most. When Tettey joined, we looked a like a new team. It was because him and Bradley played fantastic midfield-pivot games against Arsenal and Man U (the Arsenal goal came from a Tettey driven shot and the Man U goal started from winning the ball quite high up the pitch). Both moved in tandem and they seemed to have authority to join in attack if the other covered. It gave us added movement upfront and usually an out ball (either backward to the holder or forwards to a late arriving midfielder). Since then both players have obviously been told to sit deeper. This may be due to fatigue (Hughton not using his squad) or because we are setting out to be more defensive and less pressing. Whatever the reason, we have lost all drive going forward. We struggle to pass through the middle as our players get marked out of the game due to lack of movement.

This frustrates me no end as we know that Johnson can sometimes make a great final ball (Sunderland) and is good in the air as a late arrival (multiple goals). Tettey has a fantastic shot on him (Burnley, Arsenal) and technical ability on the ball. We are wasting these two by playing them so deep. But we are also wasting Snodgrass and Hoolahan by asking them to drop so deep to get the ball. They need it in the final third. Not when they have to beat 11 players to get to the box.
[/quote]

Spot on Fellas. Howson is also wasted. Last year he was brilliant but he''s being asked to sit far too deep when he starts.
[/quote]

 

Totally agree.

The width is, on paper , Ajax -esque. But in practice we dont have the courage to hold it.

One of the best things about sitting in the upper Barclay is you see the shape. In the first half we were trying to stay wide on both flanks when we gained possession, but as soon as we lose the ball Snodgrass and Bennet come back inside and look to protect the space in front of the full backs.

At this point with Becchio dropping (as he and Holt are clearly told to do) there is absolutely no outlet. The game is then played in our half, and we are unable to pass the ball out, instead we have to carry the ball out, and only Snodgrass got close to that.  

There are times when you have to move the ball forward quicker, a la Stoke. But we had no chance of doing that. So instead we play wide balls , in neutral areas, and the result is what you see. Very few shots, poor possesion in goal scoring areas, and one goal in four games.

I am very concerned about our chances this year. Everyone keeps telling me that 37 points will keep you up as it did last year. But last year, Wolves, Bolton and Blackburn were in big trouble form-wise, but this year teams in the bottom 6 are not in free fall.  

With this shape I can''t see where three more wins are coming from....

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="can u sit down please"][quote user="Grant Holts 3 year contract"]McNally OUT.

We should have risked our future by spending money that we dont have!

It''s not like we''re 8 clear and 14th.. oh..
[/quote]

Great constructive post. Did i say we needed to spend more? We have actually spent a fair bit.

The post has nothing to do with money!
[/quote]

 

Of course that is an idiotic post from GH3YC but I would argue our problems are money-related. The point is not that we didn''t spend in January money we didn''t have; we didn''t spend any of the money (probably close to £10m) we did have. We seemed to put all our eggs in the Hooper basket and realised too late that was not going to happen. If we had given ourselves time to go to Plan B we could have targeted that kind of tough buty skilful midfielder we so much need.

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Ricardo,We have a GD of -15 and we simply dont look anything like secure enough if Bassong is not playing, so its not like CH has massively improved our net GD position. I would settle for more defensive outlook if we had say the GD position that the versy defensive Stoke have. Instead, we are getting unambitious football and still conceding too many goals.I think some of the posts on this thread can be better described as constructive critiscim rather than negativity. Yes, I would have bitten the proverbial hand off for our leagie position as the start of the season, but I cant help but feel we have been lucky that the teans below us have not put a run together yet al a Wigan last year. I still think we will be ok, but I would rather not have to face the anxiety that we have put ourseleves through.

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[quote user="Desert Fox"]Ricardo,We have a GD of -15 and we simply dont look anything like secure enough if Bassong is not playing, so its not like CH has massively improved our net GD position. I would settle for more defensive outlook if we had say the GD position that the versy defensive Stoke have. Instead, we are getting unambitious football and still conceding too many goals.I think some of the posts on this thread can be better described as constructive critiscim rather than negativity. Yes, I would have bitten the proverbial hand off for our leagie position as the start of the season, but I cant help but feel we have been lucky that the teans below us have not put a run together yet al a Wigan last year. I still think we will be ok, but I would rather not have to face the anxiety that we have put ourseleves through.[/quote]exactly what i was going to write.

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Hughtons job is to make sure we are in the Premier league next year, and I think we will be.We are making the most of the players we have on the books right now, and when we get another big bag of money in the summer, we will make a few more quality signings, and progress a bit further.Some of you really need to stop panicing, I saw lots of posatives in todays game.

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[quote user="morty"]Hughtons job is to make sure we are in the Premier league next year, and I think we will be.We are making the most of the players we have on the books right now, and when we get another big bag of money in the summer, we will make a few more quality signings, and progress a bit further.Some of you really need to stop panicing, I saw lots of posatives in todays game.[/quote]i cant disagree Morty, but clean sheet aside, what were the positives? Any attacking ones?

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[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]I''m a positive supporter too, as are many who sit around me, however 9 games without a win is understandably giving some cause for concern, I don''t think we''ve actually looked like, or really deserved to win any of those 9 either.

I agree with the CUSDP that the root of our troubles is the Johnson/Tettey central midfield partnership. That partnership generally works really well away from home, or against the top sides at FCR where we''re not expected to make the running, we sit back, defend well as a unit and hit teams on the counter. It''ll probably do the job against attacking teams like we were last year such as Southampton and Reading too.

The problem we have, and where this partnership doesn''t seem to work, is against sides who come here happy to get a point where we have to take the game to them. This is when we need a plan B. I have no issue with the formation itself, it allows us to get the best from Wes and gives us 2 attacking wingers, but games like today are crying out for Fox or Howson to partner either Johnson or Tettey in my opinion.[/quote]

Agree with a lot of the points made in a number of these posts. Problem is that when these players have been given their chance this season they have failed miserably so I can understand CH''s reluctance to play them. I also firmly believe our defence is ''work in progress'' and therefore the manager believes it sensible to provide protection in the form of Tettey and BJ.

Also other than Snoddy ( who isn''t blessed with pace) our wide attacking players haven''t played particularly well this season either leaving the forwards fighting for scraps rather than good service.

So in summary I do believe our starting 11 picks itself and can hold its own in this league, however this starting 11 dictates a certain formation, which then leads to a certain type of play. Outside this 11 the players just haven''t performed so would you risk bringing them in ? A chap next too me today was shouting for Jackson to come on and play 2 up front - but when he came on he slagged him off for 2 lazy offsides and one terrible piece of control when we were attacking ! Point is Jackson just sadly isn''t good enough to start.

Judge CH when he brings a few more of the players he wants. We will then really start to see the style of play and formation he prefers until that time he has to work with what is at his disposal.

It''s going to be nip and tuck until the end of the season. Hopefully we will do enough to stay up - then next season is the time to really judge him.

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Morty,I also think we will be safe (just) but you shoudnt confuse some genuine frustration after a poor run with panic. After all this is a forum for fans to share their thoughts aloud. I am less than convinced that we are making best use of the players available, but that is just my opinion. If we stay, there will be more money available (as there will be for everyone else too), but we must really think about our remaining 12 games as an opportunity to put ourselves in the shop windown for potential summer recruits. If was a player that we were speaking too (there must be some), I would be slightly anxiosu about style of play say compared to the likes of Reading and Southampton that seem to eb playing without fear and going for it.

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Hughton will keep us up and that will be job done, there is money not wasted from January plus more to spend in the summer. We will be a Prem team next season. The problem is however that. We have had a roller coaster ride over the last few years and in truth relegation, promotion etc as a fan is a lot more exciting than just surviving in the Prem. That is all we are likely to ever do for the foreseeable future so those season ticket holders that don''t like that prospect might as well not renew and make space for someone else. Prem football is what we were all craving for but the reality is not always as exciting as the expectation.

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[quote user="can u sit down please"][quote user="morty"]Hughtons job is to make sure we are in the Premier league next year, and I think we will be.We are making the most of the players we have on the books right now, and when we get another big bag of money in the summer, we will make a few more quality signings, and progress a bit further.Some of you really need to stop panicing, I saw lots of posatives in todays game.[/quote]i cant disagree Morty, but clean sheet aside, what were the positives? Any attacking ones?[/quote]Well firstly, I shall point out the lone striker role is an extremely one not only to play, but to look good playing. Becchio actually won more headers today that Holt normally does for starters. The manager has already said he intended to play Holt and Becchio today, but was forced into last minute changes due to the late injury, so all things considered, Becchio did an adequate job.Wes was frankly unplayable at times, and Snodgrass was excellent. Bennet had an okay game, I''m not convinced by him, and he is way behind Pilks in my opinion.Fulham came here with a similar game plan to ours, and we cancelled each other out for long periods, but I think if you check (I haven''t) we had more shots on goal than them.Also before the game I was pondering the Fulham team, and frankly, most neutrals would have heard of virtually their whole team, they are all seasoned Prem campaigners.We are a small club, we have no financial backing outside of what every other team gets, and frankly we are probably punching slightly above our weight. So, looking at the bigger picture, yes there are positives.A few armchair managers on here need to get a bit real frankly.

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[quote user="Desert Fox"]Morty,I also think we will be safe (just) but you shoudnt confuse some genuine frustration after a poor run with panic. After all this is a forum for fans to share their thoughts aloud. I am less than convinced that we are making best use of the players available, but that is just my opinion. If we stay, there will be more money available (as there will be for everyone else too), but we must really think about our remaining 12 games as an opportunity to put ourselves in the shop windown for potential summer recruits. If was a player that we were speaking too (there must be some), I would be slightly anxiosu about style of play say compared to the likes of Reading and Southampton that seem to eb playing without fear and going for it.[/quote]I think the main point for me is that we are cutting our cloth accordingly, playing to our strengths, and getting there slow and steady.Yeah sometimes its not pretty, but it is effective, we will be in this division next year.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="can u sit down please"][quote user="morty"]Hughtons job is to make sure we are in the Premier league next year, and I think we will be.We are making the most of the players we have on the books right now, and when we get another big bag of money in the summer, we will make a few more quality signings, and progress a bit further.Some of you really need to stop panicing, I saw lots of posatives in todays game.[/quote]i cant disagree Morty, but clean sheet aside, what were the positives? Any attacking ones?[/quote]Well firstly, I shall point out the lone striker role is an extremely one not only to play, but to look good playing. Becchio actually won more headers today that Holt normally does for starters. The manager has already said he intended to play Holt and Becchio today, but was forced into last minute changes due to the late injury, so all things considered, Becchio did an adequate job.Wes was frankly unplayable at times, and Snodgrass was excellent. Bennet had an okay game, I''m not convinced by him, and he is way behind Pilks in my opinion.Fulham came here with a similar game plan to ours, and we cancelled each other out for long periods, but I think if you check (I haven''t) we had more shots on goal than them.Also before the game I was pondering the Fulham team, and frankly, most neutrals would have heard of virtually their whole team, they are all seasoned Prem campaigners.We are a small club, we have no financial backing outside of what every other team gets, and frankly we are probably punching slightly above our weight. So, looking at the bigger picture, yes there are positives.A few armchair managers on here need to get a bit real frankly.

[/quote]And why are we saying "clean sheet aside, what are the positives?"Why can''t a clean sheet be a positive?

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nice post and again highlights our need to have a more creative CM in the team instead of two DMs that lack real technical skills and vision.

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I know what you''re saying The Judge, but I think that''s probably a symptom of the lack of reserve football this year coupled with the lack of first team squad rotation. It''s very difficult for the likes of Howson, Fox, Jackson and the 2 Bennett''s to come in to a system they''re not familiar with and hit the ground running when they''ve hardly kicked a ball in anger all season. They''re good players, and more than capable at this level.

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[quote user="can u sit down please"][quote user="Desert Fox"]Ricardo,We have a GD of -15 and we simply dont look anything like secure enough if Bassong is not playing, so its not like CH has massively improved our net GD position. I would settle for more defensive outlook if we had say the GD position that the versy defensive Stoke have. Instead, we are getting unambitious football and still conceding too many goals.I think some of the posts on this thread can be better described as constructive critiscim rather than negativity. Yes, I would have bitten the proverbial hand off for our leagie position as the start of the season, but I cant help but feel we have been lucky that the teans below us have not put a run together yet al a Wigan last year. I still think we will be ok, but I would rather not have to face the anxiety that we have put ourseleves through.[/quote]exactly what i was going to write.[/quote]Some times you lot make me despairThe teams below us will finish on 36 points or less and that''s no different to any other season. It has absolutely nothing at all to do with anything lucky on our part.Hughton will do the job and get us to around 40 points and we will be in the Premier League next year. Anyone who didn''t think it would be an almighty scrap when we had 3 points after 7 games in mid October is either lying to themselves or else have a very selective memory. It was always going to be tough but here we are 8 points clear of trouble with 12 matches left and a far easier run in than last year.You would all have bitten my hand off if I''d offered this scenario up on 19th October. Look at the fixtures, think about it then come back and tell me that Chris Hughton hasn''t done one hell of a job.

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