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lake district canary

Hughton has ruined some of our players

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3 of those 4 players havent been ruined... Fox has been injured, Bennett has done a decent job...Howson is not good enough for this level..All Holt needs is a boot up the ar*e.. if Becchio and Kamara start scoring watch Grant all of a sudden play like Pele...

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Dr Crafty Canary wrote - Chris Hughton came in and realised that the rate at which we conceded goals last season would get us relegated if the goals dried up.

He has made our defensive play much better. Yes players like Suarez make us look awful however in the majority of games we are much tighter and this is reflected in the games lost this season ranking us 1oth in the premiership.

The cost of this has been that the linking play between defence and forward(s) has been less expressive. Couple this with the fact that the only forward of note we have had until the January window is Holty and goals have been at a premium.

I have no doubts that Hughton is aware of this hence the efforts to buy in some real quality in the frontline. City fans want football played with some verve but this requires genuine quality in the midfield and upfront to achieve. In the summer I expect that we shall see such players engaged so that next season we move forward again.

Until then, let''s keep faith with CH and his squad and leave the judgements until after the summer window closes.

I agree with this but will be more than upset if, come November, we are still playing the same over-cautious game. I agree there was a need to stabilise and it was important to sort out the defence (just think who we had last season) but now that two new forwards have been brought in our manager now has better options. I hope to see a few changes either at the start of matches or from the bench.

For all those crying out for two up front, we may now be able to do that as we now may have two good enough.

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

Howson is not good enough for this level..

[/quote]

Yes he is.

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Right.

Time to rock the boat.

Rigid formation:

Q:What formation did we play for the first seven games and with which personnel?

Fulham:(5-0 loss) 4-4-1-1, Tierney and Howson in a side that gets demolished.

QPR: (1-1) 4-4-2, Holt and Jackson up front, Howson in midfield.

Spurs: (1-1) 4-4-2, Holt and Jackson up front with Howson in midfield.

West Ham: (1-1), 4-4-2, Holt and Jackson up front with Howson in midfield.

Newcastle: (1-0 loss) 4-4-1-1, Morison with Hoolahan in behind, Howson in midfield.

Liverpool: (5-2 loss) 4-4-2, Morison and Jackson up front, Howson in midfield.

Chelsea: (4-1 loss) 4-4-1-1, Holt and Hoolahan return, Howson remains in midfield.

Arsenal: (1-0 voctory) 4-4-1-1, Howson dropped.

Then the ten game unbeaten patch began.

What can we draw from this? Out of the first 8 league games Hughton tried 4-4-2 four times. That suggests to me that he knew we could play more than one formation, and we did have some - but more limited success with it.

You don''t change a system if it works and when you beat Arsenal you certainly don''t change it. Again, when you have a run of games like we did - again you don''t change it unless you have to.

I think this was probably harsh on Howson who is clearly a more forward thinking player. As a result he has been mainly a substitute ever since. I don''t think this has anything to do with his quality as a player but more to do with the role that he is best at playing.

In a 4-4-2 he is a good attacking central midfielder, the only thing he could be argued to lack is strength but with Tettey or Johnson alongside him he does ok.

In a 4-4-1-1 he says his preferred role is where Hoolahan plays. I''d say he doesn''t quite unlock teams in the same way as Hoolahan, and when Wessi is on form it would take a fool, or Roder, to drop him.

I hope that goes some way to dispel that Hughton does experiment with formations and personnel - with a lot of those opening fixtures featuring a number of last seasons team.

When you look at things after taking a step back you can''t help but think that we were pretty gung-ho last season but also quite naive. It would also appear that a lot of our success was built on the incredible momentum we had achieved. I believe Lambert shot that down when he left, but it was also semi-inevitable. His great lads were going to need improving.

But also could we continue to play the diamond midfield and not get found out? It was clearly Lambert''s favoured formation but on quite a number of occasions it cost us points as it surrendered space out wide. It also relied heavily on counter attacking when we didn''t really have the defence to fall back on as we do now.

Hughton came in and appears to have given last years chaps a chance to stake a claim for their places giving quite a few of them opportunities early on in the season. I am pretty sure that we could have stretched to Curtis Davies last summer should Hughton have so desired and his price not bean to much short of what was being asked in January.

That''s part of the reason I think he has done a good job. He identified early doors that one of the biggest assets about our team was it''s spirit. If he made ridiculous wholesale changes he''d risk loosing that, but if he didn''t bring in players he could risk not having enough quality.

We have been unlucky with injuries and with some players not appearing to step up to the plate when required.

Hughton has tried to play the best team possible every week. It will certainly be interesting to see what he does with a fit Becchio, Holt and Kamara - the latter looking like a couple of weeks of training behind him could see him start.

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[quote user="JF"]He has certainly ruined my Saturday afternoons! Its a sorry state of affairs when you realise your side is far less entertaining than stoke, at least they create chances and score goals. This current Norwich side is the most negative and boring side I have ever seen. Next match I may ask for a alarm call around the 80 minute mark![/quote]Best post on thread. As for people slagging off fox,the bloke has had no game time to get sharp. This is down to the fact Hughton clearly does not trust anyone bar his Rigid every game 90 minute midfield. One that is not capable of stringing more than 3 passes together. Reading the Pink un nowadays, you would think Snodgrass was Lionel Messi.  He is the most one footed player I have ever seen play in the Prem. His other foot is just about good enough to stand on. I am not surprised results have faded football today is a squad game and Hughton only has 4 midfielders he trusts to run around and break up play. What about Fox coming off the bench to settle us down and keep it!! I am also sick of his constant drone on how great the other side are!!

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[quote user="Long drives home"][quote user="JF"]He has certainly ruined my Saturday afternoons! Its a sorry state of affairs when you realise your side is far less entertaining than stoke, at least they create chances and score goals. This current Norwich side is the most negative and boring side I have ever seen. Next match I may ask for a alarm call around the 80 minute mark![/quote]

Best post on thread. As for people slagging off fox,the bloke has had no game time to get sharp. This is down to the fact Hughton clearly does not trust anyone bar his Rigid every game 90 minute midfield. One that is not capable of stringing more than 3 passes together.

Reading the Pink un nowadays, you would think Snodgrass was Lionel Messi.  He is the most one footed player I have ever seen play in the Prem. His other foot is just about good enough to stand on. I am not surprised results have faded football today is a squad game and Hughton only has 4 midfielders he trusts to run around and break up play.

What about Fox coming off the bench to settle us down and keep it!!

I am also sick of his constant drone on how great the other side are!!
[/quote]

 

If that''s true you haven''t seen many premier players and you couldn''t have been to any games that Wes played in...

Snoddy has created loads with his right foot including those two great balls in for Wes at QPR.

We all have different opinions but I really don''t get why folk make stuff up toi make their point.

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[quote user="can u sit down please"]Holt fox Howson and Bennett have definitely gone backwards. I would have thought that when inheriting a successful squad you play to there strengths and kick on..... Good post[/quote]

 

Add Marc Thierny to that list, he was Hexcellent last season under..........Lambert!

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[quote user="JF"]He has certainly ruined my Saturday afternoons! Its a sorry state of affairs when you realise your side is far less entertaining than stoke, at least they create chances and score goals. This current Norwich side is the most negative and boring side I have ever seen. Next match I may ask for a alarm call around the 80 minute mark![/quote]    Well, JF, thats a lot of fuss over 1 goal! Stoke have amassed a total of 26 compared to our 25.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Long drives home"][quote user="JF"]He has certainly ruined my Saturday afternoons! Its a sorry state of affairs when you realise your side is far less entertaining than stoke, at least they create chances and score goals. This current Norwich side is the most negative and boring side I have ever seen. Next match I may ask for a alarm call around the 80 minute mark![/quote]Best post on thread. As for people slagging off fox,the bloke has had no game time to get sharp. This is down to the fact Hughton clearly does not trust anyone bar his Rigid every game 90 minute midfield. One that is not capable of stringing more than 3 passes together. Reading the Pink un nowadays, you would think Snodgrass was Lionel Messi.  He is the most one footed player I have ever seen play in the Prem. His other foot is just about good enough to stand on. I am not surprised results have faded football today is a squad game and Hughton only has 4 midfielders he trusts to run around and break up play. What about Fox coming off the bench to settle us down and keep it!! I am also sick of his constant drone on how great the other side are!! [/quote]

 

If that''s true you haven''t seen many premier players and you couldn''t have been to any games that Wes played in...

Snoddy has created loads with his right foot including those two great balls in for Wes at QPR.

We all have different opinions but I really don''t get why folk make stuff up toi make their point.

[/quote]Nigel, Did you go to Everton away? There was a moment in the game where Snoddy was left with an open net, all he needed to do was swing his useless foot and make contact with the ball to score. He did not even try and during the goal mouth scramble tried to turn to his good foot and was swamped by players (Chance was gone). During my playing days I was predominantly right footed but given an instinct chance on my left could do some pretty amazing things with it at times. I was never professional and certainly was not paid thousands to train every day. He is the most stubborn one footed player I have seen given the fact he does not even attempt to use his other foot. Given this I am surprised at how other teams do not just show him onto his useless foot at all times.

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[quote user="Long drives home"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Long drives home"][quote user="JF"]He has certainly ruined my Saturday afternoons! Its a sorry state of affairs when you realise your side is far less entertaining than stoke, at least they create chances and score goals. This current Norwich side is the most negative and boring side I have ever seen. Next match I may ask for a alarm call around the 80 minute mark![/quote]

Best post on thread. As for people slagging off fox,the bloke has had no game time to get sharp. This is down to the fact Hughton clearly does not trust anyone bar his Rigid every game 90 minute midfield. One that is not capable of stringing more than 3 passes together.

Reading the Pink un nowadays, you would think Snodgrass was Lionel Messi.  He is the most one footed player I have ever seen play in the Prem. His other foot is just about good enough to stand on. I am not surprised results have faded football today is a squad game and Hughton only has 4 midfielders he trusts to run around and break up play.

What about Fox coming off the bench to settle us down and keep it!!

I am also sick of his constant drone on how great the other side are!!
[/quote]

 

If that''s true you haven''t seen many premier players and you couldn''t have been to any games that Wes played in...

Snoddy has created loads with his right foot including those two great balls in for Wes at QPR.

We all have different opinions but I really don''t get why folk make stuff up toi make their point.

[/quote]

Nigel, Did you go to Everton away? There was a moment in the game where Snoddy was left with an open net, all he needed to do was swing his useless foot and make contact with the ball to score. He did not even try and during the goal mouth scramble tried to turn to his good foot and was swamped by players (Chance was gone).

During my playing days I was predominantly right footed but given an instinct chance on my left could do some pretty amazing things with it at times. I was never professional and certainly was not paid thousands to train every day.

He is the most stubborn one footed player I have seen given the fact he does not even attempt to use his other foot. Given this I am surprised at how other teams do not just show him onto his useless foot at all times.
[/quote]

 

I don''t doubt you buddy. I wasn''t at Everton so missed that one footed display. But all the games I have seen he has definitely been two footed. In fact some of his most dangerous balls into the box have been with his right foot.

 

 

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Snodgrass is more two footed than Wes.  But they are told as players to use their worse foot if the situation demands it  - Holt is a prime example of how to do it (Everton away and MU at home last season)  and Snod and Wes have been seen to use their other foot on occasion.    But it never ceases to amaze me how one footed some players are....................all those wages and not done enough work on their weaker foot.   It makes you think.

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Also, there was an interview which I read though I can''t remember where; it might have been in the match programme.

 

Anyway, Snoddy said that he had started the season with an injury to his right foot which made him more reluctant to use it. He was recovering though.

 

He has undoubtedly used his right to good effect when going to the byline and crossing so the suggestion that he he is totally one footed which seems to be based on a single anecdote is clearly wrong,

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[quote user="lake district canary"]Snodgrass is more two footed than Wes.  But they are told as players to use their worse foot if the situation demands it  - Holt is a prime example of how to do it (Everton away and MU at home last season)  and Snod and Wes have been seen to use their other foot on occasion.    But it never ceases to amaze me how one footed some players are....................all those wages and not done enough work on their weaker foot.   It makes you think.

[/quote]Snodgrass is like Pilkington good with both feet.

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[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]

Also, there was an interview which I read though I can''t remember where; it might have been in the match programme.

 

Anyway, Snoddy said that he had started the season with an injury to his right foot which made him more reluctant to use it. He was recovering though.

 

He has undoubtedly used his right to good effect when going to the byline and crossing so the suggestion that he he is totally one footed which seems to be based on a single anecdote is clearly wrong,

[/quote]So you close your eyes when he cuts in with his left?

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At the start of this season he did look very one footed, and what CambridgeCanary says would probably be consistent with Snodgrass becoming much more effective as the season has progressed.

I wonder whether the decision to leave Snodgrass on the bench against Arsenal in our 1-0 win was related to his foot injury, and whether his return to the team coincided with his recovery.... because it was after that home win that Snodgrass really came alive.

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Spot on.

David Fox gets criticised because he doesn''t get ''stuck in''. There are several classy midfielders who are similar but they don''t get ignored because of this. Tettey and Johnson have no purpose other than to break up the play. They do this fairly reasonably but when it comes to passing they are very limited. I''m not saying Foxy should start every game, but when it comes to passing and vision, apart from Wes, there is no one else in the City squad that does it better. And people wonder why we don''t create any chances!

Fox is too rusty now and clearly not rated by CH, so my thought on playing DF alongside Tettey or Johnson is never going to happen.

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Che''s right hand man said:


"So you close your eyes when he cuts in with his left?"

 

What on earth are you on?  Where have I said that?  All I have said is that he has crfossed with his right many times which is true.  Of course he cuts in on his left and to good effect too.  He also tackles, heads the ball and is kind to small animals.  So what?  The discussion was the allegation that he never uses his rtight foot which is demonstable nonsense.  As is your comment.

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[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]Che''s right hand man said:

"So you close your eyes when he cuts in with his left?"

 

What on earth are you on?  Where have I said that?  All I have said is that he has crfossed with his right many times which is true.  Of course he cuts in on his left and to good effect too.  He also tackles, heads the ball and is kind to small animals.  So what?  The discussion was the allegation that he never uses his rtight foot which is demonstable nonsense.  As is your comment.

[/quote]Touch a nerve?

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[quote user="Dr Crafty Canary"]Chris Hughton came in and realised that the rate at which we conceded goals last season would get us relegated if the goals dried up. He has made our defensive play much better. Yes players like Suarez make us look awful however in the majority of games we are much tighter and this is reflected in the games lost this season ranking us 1oth in the premiership. The cost of this has been that the linking play between defence and forward(s) has been less expressive. Couple this with the fact that the only forward of note we have had until the January window is Holty and goals have been at a premium. I have no doubts that Hughton is aware of this hence the efforts to buy in some real quality in the frontline. City fans want football played with some verve but this requires genuine quality in the midfield and upfront to achieve. In the summer I expect that we shall see such players engaged so that next season we move forward again. Until then, let''s keep faith with CH and his squad and leave the judgements until after the summer window closes. OTBC!![/quote]

I''m all for letting the season and Chris Hughton flow and see where it takes us but, Crafty, let''s make sure that facts don''t get overlooked by opinion on the way. I posted the following on another thread:

  • Last season at the same stage we had a goals differential of -5, were 14 points above a relegation place and in 8th position.

  • This season we have a goals differential of -15, are 6 points above a relegation place and in 14th position
  • Oh, and as far as games lost last season at the same stage, we were tied for 8th. In other words, on all measures indicated we are way behind last season at the same stage. Now, of course, we weakened in the 12 games that remained last season, so we might fare better this time around but, at this stage, that is simply speculation. We wait on the facts.

     

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