Racism in football.

[Joanna Grey 0]

"Racism is the lowest form of anything and should be dealt with as such."

Lower than Rapists? Paedos? Serial killers? Terrorists?

[Stig 0]

[quote user="Joanna Grey"]"Racism is the lowest form of anything and should be dealt with as such."

Lower than Rapists? Paedos? Serial killers? Terrorists?[/quote]

Racism shows an intolerance for a fellow human being, so yeah... in my opinion.

Rapists, Paedophiles, serial killers... they''re a different ball game altogether.

[Indy 3,284]

Ok my next question is are we confusing racism with personal insults?

 

I mean as Morty says that we were taking the mick out of Bale, so if there is a terrace load of supports chanting the same at a black player could they not argue the same thing, could they not say well it’s not racist just a bit of banter? So if a black man chants this at Bale a few weeks ago, is he being racist or just having banter with the rest of the crowd?

 

This is one area which is so touchy and can be interpreted in so many ways……..what is right though is again in each individuals minds.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="Indy"]

Wow Morty, I know Bale is white, but did you know most primates skin colours are white too? So when you say racism is about skin colour that is not strictly true.

 

I believe that any type of group hatred for any people should not be tollerated under any circumstance, we have such a diverse culture which produces some lovely people from all backgrounds.

 

But I agree with stig, insulting someone isn''t being racist, no matter what the colour. So the next question and relative to my Bale line is why is it diffenrent if you are white or black? No one has actually given me a real reason for the diffenrence, why should there be a difference and why should Bale or say Tettey react differently if the same chant was aimed at them during a game......please tell me? Going on about history is not an excuse for one law to be different to the next man.

 

Or am I missing something?

[/quote]

Is it more complicated than the fact that racial abuse of people of African heritage means that they have often been accused and abused in simian terms?  Because the colour of monkeys and apes that is visible is their their fur colour and not their skin colour.  It was geniunely and seriously argued amongst the slaver and segregationist cultures in the Americas and less than a century ago in South Africa and the deep south of the USA to justify apartheid and segregation that negroes were a seperate and less developed species.

 

After Darwin, racists would argue that negroes were an intermediate evolutionary species between apes and homo sapiens.  Therefore, the use of any ape based insult is deeply hurtful to any black person and particularly any African person.   Those of us over 40 well remember that when a black player received the ball there would be chimp noises from the opposition supporters and sometimes bananas would be thrown.

 

The link is clear and I hope that satisfies you.

 

As a coda though, the argument of all anti racists has long been that people should be abused for what they do and not for what they are.  I find the abuse of Bale distasteful because no one (ok no one except Katie Price) can help how they look and to abuse someone for facially resembling a chimp is no different in principle to abusing someone because they are black or because one leg is withered and useless.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Indy"]

Ok my next question is are we confusing racism with personal insults?

 

I mean as Morty says that we were taking the mick out of Bale, so if there is a terrace load of supports chanting the same at a black player could they not argue the same thing, could they not say well it’s not racist just a bit of banter? So if a black man chants this at Bale a few weeks ago, is he being racist or just having banter with the rest of the crowd?

 

This is one area which is so touchy and can be interpreted in so many ways……..what is right though is again in each individuals minds.

[/quote]No, it is only you that is confused.My point is about racism in football, and I''m not interested in your sideways discussion about being mean to people.You really are struggling to grasp the actual definition of racial abuse, aren''t you?There are no blurry edges, and anyone who tries to imply there are, is perhaps trying to justify their own behaviour.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="Joanna Grey"]"Racism is the lowest form of anything and should be dealt with as such." Lower than Rapists? Paedos? Serial killers? Terrorists?[/quote]

 

As Dr Johnson famously said:

 

 

"Sir, there is no settling the point of precedency between a louse and a flea."

[Harry 0]

There is no difference in chanting that Bale looks like a chimp and Suarez looking like a rat but no one wet their knickers over that one.

[Indy 3,284]

Racism is a hate against a culture, people or race of people, you can be classed as racist against more than one colour of people.

 

I''m not confusing the issue nor going on a tangent Morty, but asking the fact that had that chant at Bale been made by a black crowd would that not be a racist chant? Where do you draw the line, what about the chants aimed at Spurs given their Jewish connections, that too is being racist is it not?

 

I agree with you and everyone else on here it has no place in any form anywhere in this day and age, society is full of lovely great people from all walks of life and beliefs.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Indy"]

Racism is a hate against a culture, people or race of people, you can be classed as racist against more than one colour of people.

 

I''m not confusing the issue nor going on a tangent Morty, but asking the fact that had that chant at Bale been made by a black crowd would that not be a racist chant? Where do you draw the line, what about the chants aimed at Spurs given their Jewish connections, that too is being racist is it not?

 

I agree with you and everyone else on here it has no place in any form anywhere in this day and age, society is full of lovely great people from all walks of life and beliefs.

[/quote]Are you seriously this confused / poorly informed?There are also laws against religious hate.Choice of religion doesn''t make you a different race.For the last time, read this twice if you have to, Racism is about the historical abuse of a black minority by a white majority. You are just twisting this about to score some kind of pedantic point.

[Rolf Harris 31]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Indy"]

Racism is a hate against a culture, people or race of people, you can be classed as racist against more than one colour of people.

 

I''m not confusing the issue nor going on a tangent Morty, but asking the fact that had that chant at Bale been made by a black crowd would that not be a racist chant? Where do you draw the line, what about the chants aimed at Spurs given their Jewish connections, that too is being racist is it not?

 

I agree with you and everyone else on here it has no place in any form anywhere in this day and age, society is full of lovely great people from all walks of life and beliefs.

[/quote]Are you seriously this confused / poorly informed?There are also laws against religious hate.Choice of religion doesn''t make you a different race.For the last time, read this twice if you have to, Racism is about the historical abuse of a black minority by a white majority. You are just twisting this about to score some kind of pedantic point.[/quote]What about the Native Americans and the Aboriginals and the Maori?

[morty 0]

[quote user="Ches right hand man "][quote user="morty"][quote user="Indy"]

Racism is a hate against a culture, people or race of people, you can be classed as racist against more than one colour of people.

 

I''m not confusing the issue nor going on a tangent Morty, but asking the fact that had that chant at Bale been made by a black crowd would that not be a racist chant? Where do you draw the line, what about the chants aimed at Spurs given their Jewish connections, that too is being racist is it not?

 

I agree with you and everyone else on here it has no place in any form anywhere in this day and age, society is full of lovely great people from all walks of life and beliefs.

[/quote]Are you seriously this confused / poorly informed?There are also laws against religious hate.Choice of religion doesn''t make you a different race.For the last time, read this twice if you have to, Racism is about the historical abuse of a black minority by a white majority. You are just twisting this about to score some kind of pedantic point.[/quote]What about the Native Americans and the Aboriginals and the Maori? [/quote]What about them?

[Indy 3,284]

OK, so what you''re saying is that you can only be a racist if you are white and aiming a comment at the black community or person?

 

New one on me Morty, as I thought a racist is a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others, no matter what background or history they come from.

 

I will leave it now as I was trying to show we all have very different view on what exactly is racist, what is personal abuse and where does the line lie?

 

 

[fen canary 0]

In my opinion you cannot be a football supporter and a racist.

Your favourite team whether you watch them live or on the tv will have black/foreign players so you really would have to be some sort of pond life to racially abuse the opposition and think that your own players would not be affected.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Indy"]

OK, so what you''re saying is that you can only be a racist if you are white and aiming a comment at the black community or person?

 

New one on me Morty, as I thought a racist is a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others, no matter what background or history they come from.

 

I will leave it now as I was trying to show we all have very different view on what exactly is racist, what is personal abuse and where does the line lie?

 

 

[/quote]What your personal views are on the specific racism are of no relevance.The context we are talking about is how the law defines it, well that the context I was talking about.Like I said, more often than not, someone who is "confused" as to what is racist, and what isn''t is invariably trying to square away their own behaviour.

[Indy 3,284]

No Morty the law does not define a Racist the way you depict it as a white person on black peoples due to years of abuse and historical facts.

 

The definition is actually as a prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior:

 

So that is any race on any race, not history related, sorry to be a pain Morty.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Indy"]

No Morty the law does not define a Racist the way you depict it as a white person on black peoples due to years of abuse and historical facts.

 

The definition is actually as a prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior:

 

So that is any race on any race, not history related, sorry to be a pain Morty.

[/quote]Tell you what, lets just say you''re right[Y]I am losing the will to live here.

[Fr. Chewy Louie 137]

Simply put, racism is treating someone differently entirely on account of their race. This could be perpetrated by someone of any race, and against someone of any race.

Saying "Gareth Bale looks like a chimp" is not racist, but personally, I''d steer well clear of it, as there''s a well-established history of comparing black people to monkeys etc, and it''s not hard to imagine how offence might be taken.

[morty 0]

So, do we consider that football is doing enough to tackle this problem, or do you consider they are just paying token lip service?For clarification, the problem being specific racial abuse of black players, not thinking Bale looks a bit chimpy.

[Indy 3,284]

I will tell you a little story Morty, during a working visit to the US a few years ago, we were referred to as UK honkies, light hearted banter at the time and someone complained and the guy who made the comment we removed from the hotel and cautioned. None of our party complained but someone had overheard them and taken it to the manager of the hotel.

 

The comment was in our party, we were with some high profile engineers working for large oil companies. So why someone outside our group stick their noses in and complain is beyond me, BUT to them it obviously was offensive.

 

So I have just asked people here where do you draw the line with chants and is the Bale incident a little too close to that line?

[Fr. Chewy Louie 137]

Personally I think it''s no greater a problem in football that it is in society at large. Offenders tend to be stamped on fairly fast, and the general attitude has shifted significantly in the right direction.

[Fr. Chewy Louie 137]

Homophobia and sexism in football are another story though.

[Indy 3,284]

Not in my book Morty, I think more could be done by the authorities when cases are proven.

 

But when you consider the minor penalties habded out to players who are found to have been racially abusive then we have to ask if the authorities actually doing enough at this level too.

 

But it''s also about the supporters to bring their own into line imidietly on hearing anything like this and putting a stop to it right there!

[morty 0]

[quote user="Indy"]

I will tell you a little story Morty, during a working visit to the US a few years ago, we were referred to as UK honkies, light hearted banter at the time and someone complained and the guy who made the comment we removed from the hotel and cautioned. None of our party complained but someone had overheard them and taken it to the manager of the hotel.

 

The comment was in our party, we were with some high profile engineers working for large oil companies. So why someone outside our group stick their noses in and complain is beyond me, BUT to them it obviously was offensive.

 

So I have just asked people here where do you draw the line with chants and is the Bale incident a little too close to that line?

[/quote]No, this just goes to show that some people are pant wetting idiots, and are so lily livered and pathetic that they have to try and find offence in everything.The facts speak for themselves, Bale is a bit chimpish. Do you honestly think that he cries himself to sleep every night because the comparison has been made? The answer is no. And why should you, or anyone else, feel the need to be offended on his behalf?

[Mr Jenkins 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Indy"]

No Morty the law does not define a Racist the way you depict it as a white person on black peoples due to years of abuse and historical facts.

 

The definition is actually as a prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior:

 

So that is any race on any race, not history related, sorry to be a pain Morty.

[/quote]Tell you what, lets just say you''re right[Y]I am losing the will to live here.[/quote]

Yes he is right, point well made Barbera

[Mr Jenkins 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Indy"]

I will tell you a little story Morty, during a working visit to the US a few years ago, we were referred to as UK honkies, light hearted banter at the time and someone complained and the guy who made the comment we removed from the hotel and cautioned. None of our party complained but someone had overheard them and taken it to the manager of the hotel.

 

The comment was in our party, we were with some high profile engineers working for large oil companies. So why someone outside our group stick their noses in and complain

is beyond me, BUT to them it obviously was offensive.

 

So I have just asked people here where do you draw the line with chants and is the Bale incident a little too close to that line?

[/quote]No, this just goes to show that some people are pant wetting idiots, and are so lily livered and pathetic that they have to try and find offence in everything.The facts speak for themselves, Bale is a bit chimpish. Do you honestly think that he cries himself to sleep every night because the comparison has been made?

The answer is no. And why should you, or anyone else, feel the need to be offended on his behalf?[/quote]

There is undoubtedly some chip there!

[morty 0]

Canarygirl, do you need some help sorting out that blockquote problem?

[Mr Jenkins 0]

I sure do, ever since I have been using an ipad I can''t seem to sort it, used Mozilla before on my laptop and that was ok. Also the ipad autocorrects words and I end up posting chip instead of chimp.

[morty 0]

[quote user="canarygirl"]I sure do, ever since I have been using an ipad I can''t seem to sort it, used Mozilla before on my laptop and that was ok. Also the ipad autocorrects words and I end up posting chip instead of chimp.[/quote]Ah, thats where my help ends then, it doesn''t work on my ipad either, so use my lappy or desktop when on here.Somebody posted a solution ages ago, that worked for ipad, something you change in the settings, if I get time later I''ll try and search for it.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Thanks

[morty 0]

[quote user="canarygirl"]Thanks[/quote]There you go :-http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun/cs/forums/2742264/ShowPost.aspx