Dirty Leeds

[Mr Jenkins 0]

[quote user="pablofarmer"]Surprised no one has taken objection to the tired title.

All this talk of homophobia and the title suggests its wrong. Well does to me.

A players sexuality should have nothing to do with them being picked.[/quote]

The thread title has been discussed Pablo, not really that interested in what the OP was trying to convey by it, only the OP will know that, but seemed to me an interesting issue to discuss because it is a bit of an elephant in the room. I have no idea what proportion of the population are gay but clearly with all the players in the PL and the FL undoubtedly there will be many many gay players but for whatever reason they are unable to come out publicly. It may well be that they all don''t want to, I have no idea about that but there must be a number who want to come out and feel they can''t. What interested me was a tv program I saw on channel 4 a couple of months ago about Gareth Thomas, a top level international rugby player who came out and continued to play rugby. That must be such a difficult thing to, the reaction from players around him was maybe initial surprise but actually he is seen as being incredably courageous . There has been no overt negative fan reaction and he has been well supported. I wondered if his action would pave the way more more sportsmen to the same, particularly in football, but nothing seems to have happened. If Thomas had been a PL footballer I wonder if he would have had the courage to do the same thing, is would the decision be be even tougher in a football environment.

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="canarygirl"]Shame he could only declare himself gay after he gives up the game. Yes it is a can of worms Till and one that is rarely discussed, macho game and gays just don''t fit the profile. [/quote]

It can be discussed, and it is a subject close to our hearts because of Justin.

Unfortunately it will likely attract idiots, and the thread will descend into chaos.
[/quote]

 

One of the posters who was against signing Mboyo used the practical argument that he would be a prime target for opposition fans. It did occur to me at the time that a convicted rapist would probably get less stick from the crowd (and opponents) than would a player who''d come out as gay, or was even just so suspected. The heterosexual Le Saux being a case in point.

[morty 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="canarygirl"]Shame he could only declare himself gay after he gives up the game. Yes it is a can of worms Till and one that is rarely discussed, macho game and gays just don''t fit the profile. [/quote]It can be discussed, and it is a subject close to our hearts because of Justin.Unfortunately it will likely attract idiots, and the thread will descend into chaos.[/quote]

 

One of the posters who was against signing Mboyo used the practical argument that he would be a prime target for opposition fans. It did occur to me at the time that a convicted rapist would probably get less stick from the crowd (and opponents) than would a player who''d come out as gay, or was even just so suspected. The heterosexual Le Saux being a case in point.

[/quote]It is a pretty poor state of affairs really, because I think society, as a whole, treats homosexuality in a fairly adult and accepting way. Which makes me think that the "in the closet" footballers actually fear the reaction of their fellow players more, than what the public will think.

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="canarygirl"]Shame he could only declare himself gay after he gives up the game. Yes it is a can of worms Till and one that is rarely discussed, macho game and gays just don''t fit the profile. [/quote]

It can be discussed, and it is a subject close to our hearts because of Justin.

Unfortunately it will likely attract idiots, and the thread will descend into chaos.
[/quote]

 

One of the posters who was against signing Mboyo used the practical argument that he would be a prime target for opposition fans. It did occur to me at the time that a convicted rapist would probably get less stick from the crowd (and opponents) than would a player who''d come out as gay, or was even just so suspected. The heterosexual Le Saux being a case in point.

[/quote]

It is a pretty poor state of affairs really, because I think society, as a whole, treats homosexuality in a fairly adult and accepting way. Which makes me think that the "in the closet" footballers actually fear the reaction of their fellow players more, than what the public will think.
[/quote]

 

Not sure about that, morty. Society as a whole is much less racist than it used to be but football crowds are different. A mob mentality can take over and extreme views come to the fore. From a minority to be sure, but those are the voices that get heard. I don''t know whether you saw the recent footage from the Milwall-Leeds game but you wouldn''t apply the adjectives" or "accepting" to the behaviour there.

[morty 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="canarygirl"]Shame he could only declare himself gay after he gives up the game. Yes it is a can of worms Till and one that is rarely discussed, macho game and gays just don''t fit the profile. [/quote]It can be discussed, and it is a subject close to our hearts because of Justin.Unfortunately it will likely attract idiots, and the thread will descend into chaos.[/quote]

 

One of the posters who was against signing Mboyo used the practical argument that he would be a prime target for opposition fans. It did occur to me at the time that a convicted rapist would probably get less stick from the crowd (and opponents) than would a player who''d come out as gay, or was even just so suspected. The heterosexual Le Saux being a case in point.

[/quote]It is a pretty poor state of affairs really, because I think society, as a whole, treats homosexuality in a fairly adult and accepting way. Which makes me think that the "in the closet" footballers actually fear the reaction of their fellow players more, than what the public will think.[/quote]

 

Not sure about that, morty. Society as a whole is much less racist than it used to be but football crowds are different. A mob mentality can take over and extreme views come to the fore. From a minority to be sure, but those are the voices that get heard. I don''t know whether you saw the recent footage from the Milwall-Leeds game but you wouldn''t apply the adjectives" or "accepting" to the behaviour there.

[/quote]Unfortunately idiots use the relative anonymity of being in a crowd to be suddenly "brave".I honestly think that the first football player to come out will have a torrid time, but it will pave the way to a change in attitude.But who would really want to be that man?

[First Wizard 0]

If any player was deemed good enough to play for us, his sexual prefences shouldn''t matter a damn.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

[quote user="Wiz"]If any player was deemed good enough to play for us, his sexual prefences shouldn''t matter a damn.[/quote]

What about children, or dogs?!

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="Wiz"]If any player was deemed good enough to play for us, his sexual prefences shouldn''t matter a damn.[/quote]

 

Would you have the same principles about the boardroom?

 

 

[morty 0]

KAPOW![:D]

[ZLF 274]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"][quote user="Wiz"]If any player was deemed good enough to play for us, his sexual prefences shouldn''t matter a damn.[/quote] What about children, or dogs?![/quote]

 

i dont think the academy are worried about teh sexual preference of thir students either.     As far as I am aware NCFC (or any other team) do not have a dogs team decked out in yellow and green yet;   although that may be a new sport to develop...

[priceyrice 123]

[quote user="canarygirl"][quote user="morty"][quote user="canarygirl"]Shame he could only declare himself gay after he gives up the game. Yes it is a can of worms Till and one that is rarely discussed, macho game and gays just don''t fit the profile. [/quote]It can be discussed, and it is a subject close to our hearts because of Justin.Unfortunately it will likely attract idiots, and the thread will descend into chaos.[/quote]

Your probably right, but my first question to you all is why could Gareth Thomas, Wales rugby captain and British Lion come out during his career and continue playing where as footballers need to finish playing before they feel they are able to speak out.

[/quote]

I believe Thomas only came out after he retired as well. I imagine it''s harder for a rugby player to come out while playing, much more physical game

[Mr Jenkins 0]

[quote user="priceyrice"][quote user="canarygirl"][quote user="morty"][quote user="canarygirl"]Shame he could only declare himself gay after he gives up the game. Yes it is a can of worms Till and one that is rarely discussed, macho game and gays just don''t fit the profile. [/quote]It can be discussed, and it is a subject close to our hearts because of Justin.Unfortunately it will likely attract idiots, and the thread will descend into chaos.[/quote]

Your probably right, but my first question to you all is why could Gareth Thomas, Wales rugby captain and British Lion come out during his career and continue playing where as footballers need to finish playing before they feel they are able to speak out.

[/quote]

I believe Thomas only came out after he retired as well. I imagine it''s harder for a rugby player to come out while playing, much more physical game[/quote]

No Pricey he continued to play for 2 years after he came out, he played rugby league for the Crusaders, and I think also represented Wales at international level.

[Yobocop 1,098]

I know Robbie very well through his time at Stevenage...

First off I think he''d be the first to admit he isn''t good enough to play premier league football.

On the subject of homosexuality in the game, what''s the issue? Would the OP have posted, ''would we sign a Chinese player?'' No of course he/she wouldn''t

I have wished Robbie well in the future, shame he felt the need to retire but there we go that''s life!

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Wiz"]If any player was deemed good enough to play for us, his sexual prefences shouldn''t matter a damn.[/quote]

 

Would you have the same principles about the boardroom?

 

 

[/quote]

 

Yes Nutty, Fry''s habits are his buisness not mine...........I only mention his name cause I know where you''re trying to go with this!

[TIL 1010 4,743]

[quote user="Wiz"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Wiz"]If any player was deemed good enough to play for us, his sexual prefences shouldn''t matter a damn.[/quote]

 

Would you have the same principles about the boardroom?

 

 

[/quote]

 

Yes Nutty, Fry''s habits are his buisness not mine...........I only mention his name cause I know where you''re trying to go with this!

[/quote]

Says it all really when you describe homosexuality as a habit Wiz.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="Wiz"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Wiz"]If any player was deemed good enough to play for us, his sexual prefences shouldn''t matter a damn.[/quote]

 

Would you have the same principles about the boardroom?

 

 

[/quote]

 

Yes Nutty, Fry''s habits are his buisness not mine...........I only mention his name cause I know where you''re trying to go with this!

[/quote]

Yes indeed. Mr Fry. You''ve now changed your tune Wiz. If you''ve genuinely discarded your homophobia then good for you.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

On the main issue, there is a lot talked about the desirability of payers coming out. We acknowledge that it is hugely difficult given the base behaviour of football crowds.

I think pressure is in the wrong place. There must be many gay retired footballers some who played with great distinction. They have less to lose by coming out as their football legacy is secure. Look at Gazza. However one feels about his current condition, nothing detracts from what he did on the field. Lets have a few players with caps and medals come out and clear the path for today''s players

In the seventies I had a close friend who was guy. He had absolutely no interest in football. One day he told me that he had visited his parents and whist watching MotD with them saw the man he was sleeping with. That player an international who later became a manager. He cannot be the only one but his football reputation is immense as is his medal drawer so he could lead the way.