Paying a Price for Undermining McNally?

[Not Nigel 0]

I am, I''m thinking of Arthur Whittle. Does anybody know what happened to him?

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Yep.. that''s the one. It was the nephews that gave it away. Word is the old boy passed on. RIP Arthur.

 

 

[Not Nigel 0]

He was a controversial fella, but he said everything in his own name so he was certainly no coward.

[Not Nigel 0]

Sad to hear, and likely as I suspect he''d still be on here otherwise. RIP.

[Crispy 4]

@Nutty Nigel ....

Here is what happened at the start of the season when I started a similar thread.

http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun/cs/forums/1/2797476/ShowPost.aspx#2797476

...... to save you all the troubled I got in the first response "You''ve just given up the right to celebrate in grant Holts successes" and later on got attacked suggesting my opinion was less valid as I live in London.

It''s also a good example of a thread that I started for a genuine discussion & by page 3 it''s hijacked by a certain magic man having personal arguments.

( apologies this was off topic, the linked post however I feel is similar to that of the OP )

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Crispy"]@Nutty Nigel .... Here is what happened at the start of the season when I started a similar thread. http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun/cs/forums/1/2797476/ShowPost.aspx#2797476 ...... to save you all the troubled I got in the first response "You''ve just given up the right to celebrate in grant Holts successes" and later on got attacked suggesting my opinion was less valid as I live in London. It''s also a good example of a thread that I started for a genuine discussion & by page 3 it''s hijacked by a certain magic man having personal arguments. ( apologies this was off topic, the linked post however I feel is similar to that of the OP )[/quote]

 

You really do have a low opinion of everone else on here don''t you Crispy. So why bother?

 

And why am I being defensive? Well buddy, I think that overall this is a great forum. If I didn''t I wouldn''t hang around to keep saying so....

 

 

[Crispy 4]

It''s a good forum as it''s very most active making it have plenty to read and one I will continue to use. I do however feel most threads to tend to follow a pattern of the same people arguing with each other, but I take it all with a pinch of salt.

Regardless I still enjoy engaging with people who share the same passion as I do for the best football club in the world.

OTBC

[Crispy 4]

@nutty nigel

"You really do have a low opinion of everone else on here don''t you Crispy. So why bother?"

Sorry I forget to mention that I do not have a low opinion of everyone on here. As with society it''s the few who ruin it for the masses. Also you seem like a sensible poster genuinely engaging with conversation so I would say the forum is better of for having you here, regardless if we disagree on things.

[Scooby 0]

So, back to the OP and your insinuation that, as Snodgrass (allegedly) puts in the most crosses in the league and Holt isn''t scoring, Holt is crap. You are forgetting, conveniently, that the standard of Snodgrass''s crossing is generally woeful. Rarely does a corner clear the first defender and, except the occasional goal, rarely does a free kick get over the wall.

[Reasonable Canary 0]

[quote user="Scooby"]So, back to the OP and your insinuation that, as Snodgrass (allegedly) puts in the most crosses in the league and Holt isn''t scoring, Holt is crap. You are forgetting, conveniently, that the standard of Snodgrass''s crossing is generally woeful. Rarely does a corner clear the first defender and, except the occasional goal, rarely does a free kick get over the wall.[/quote]

 

Rarely does a corner clear the first man ohGOD! GO TO A GAME! JESUS!

[Not Nigel 0]

It wasn''t an attempt at humour, it is genuinely the best analogy that I can give to the emotion that I feel every time I read one of your posts. Every single post slags off fellow Norwich fans, you are genuinely more annoying then the crazy frog ringtone.

[Reasonable Canary 0]

I''d hardly call you fans. Most of you genuinely want the club to fail

[Not Nigel 0]

You have a giant chip on your shoulder, that much is clear. Seriously, if you hate everybody on here so much, then why the hell are you here? Have you got a good word to say about anybody?

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Crispy"]@nutty nigel "You really do have a low opinion of everone else on here don''t you Crispy. So why bother?" Sorry I forget to mention that I do not have a low opinion of everyone on here. As with society it''s the few who ruin it for the masses. Also you seem like a sensible poster genuinely engaging with conversation so I would say the forum is better of for having you here, regardless if we disagree on things.[/quote]

 

Sorry buddy. I think I misread something on your post. The forum is fine though. It''s got a bit of everything but there is plenty of good footnall discussion. I looked at that thread and you did get a hard time off one poster and then Wiz got involved......

 

Anyway, if you feel you make a good point and it gets lost I always look at it philisophically knowing that it won''t be long before the opportunity arises to make it again.

 

I still think we need Holty BTW[;)]

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

"Saying it''s great overall is nothing short of macabre"

 

So why are you here ?

 

Why have you bothered to fish out yet another of your many aliases ?

 

A measure of your own worth is that you have taken the trouble to set up all these accounts - for what, to try and pick arguments with each and every poster ? What a terribly sad existence.

 

Terribly sad by our standards that is.

 

 

 

 

[Crispy 4]

@ Nutty Nigel

Even tho I am of the opinion Holt won''t find his form from last season I would much prefer I am wrong & he starts scoring !

OTBC & OTB Holty

[Not Nigel 0]

Holt will score goals in a 4-4-2.

Maybe not as prolifically as he did last season, but then 15 goals is five more than anybody expected.

If Hughton starts playing 4-4-2 we will see a few Holt goals in the last twelve games, I''m sure of it.

Those goals will likely play a huge part in separating us from the bottom three, and come May when the season finishes we will look back at those goals as very important.

Just a hunch.

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="Scooby"]So, back to the OP and your insinuation that, as Snodgrass (allegedly) puts in the most crosses in the league and Holt isn''t scoring, Holt is crap. You are forgetting, conveniently, that the standard of Snodgrass''s crossing is generally woeful. Rarely does a corner clear the first defender and, except the occasional goal, rarely does a free kick get over the wall.[/quote]

According to whoscored.com Snodgrass actually a very good crosser. Snodgrass cross accuracy is around 25% (i.e. every one in four crosses will find a team mate). That might sound quite poor, until you factor in the Gareth Bale''s is only 21%. He also produces the 8th most number of accurate crosses a game (at around 2), just below players like Cabaye. Strangely enough, the best ''crossers'' in the league are Nicky Shorey and Leighton Baines, go figure.

Also, the second complaint is more of a dig at his set-piece accuracy, not his reliability from open play, which I believe are two different things.

[Reasonable Canary 0]

How many goals will it take to placate the chattering masses? I''m not sure he can redeem himself in the eyes of people that would be more at home watching wwf smack down...

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]The point of the last line is that before McNally we were a club run too much by sentiment, hence managers became personal friends for example and over-stayed. The best thing Delia and the Board have ever done is appoint a businesslike CEO.[/quote]

 

Rudolph, I agree about there were examples of oversentimentality (keeping Worthington on into the 2006/07 season and choosing Gunn) although Smith and Jones can also be pretty ruthless (kicking out Mike Walker and Munby and Doncaster). The trouble was that by posting the way you did:

When you give your answer consider whether you are applying McNally head or Delia heart.

...it looked as if you were saying Delia had specifically overruled McNally over Holt''s contract, and there is no reason to think that was the case. More than that. you simply didn''t back up you argument that McNally had somehow been undermined by the way the issue was handled.

[Scooby 0]

[quote user="Reasonable Canary"]

[quote user="Scooby"]So, back to the OP and your insinuation that, as Snodgrass (allegedly) puts in the most crosses in the league and Holt isn''t scoring, Holt is crap. You are forgetting, conveniently, that the standard of Snodgrass''s crossing is generally woeful. Rarely does a corner clear the first defender and, except the occasional goal, rarely does a free kick get over the wall.[/quote]

 

Rarely does a corner clear the first man ohGOD! GO TO A GAME! JESUS!

[/quote]

I go to every game, do you? Or do your rose coloured reasonable specs not allow you to see any wrong.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

14th in the league playing a defensive game, what are people complaining about. No Striker would be able to score for fun when we play like this.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

nutty nigel wrote the following post at 18/02/2013 11:52 PM: I still think we need Holty BTW

Me too nutty. I think the stats have us 16th in the league for chances created and 18th in the league for goals scored. The difference being a measly 3 goals.

No striker is going to look like a world beater in our side right now.

[Tumbleweed 106]

Holt''s contribution is more than just goals, and that is part of the problem. As a lone striker with patchy support he is often getting pulled wide or short to get the ball. It leaves few options and the team becomes more reliant on Hoolahan or the wingers tucking in to a greater extent. In the 4-4-2 it wasn''t such an issue. Having fewer chances puts extra pressure on each one, he recently missed what last season might have been regarded as a sitter (can''t recall when, QPR maybe?).

It is a tough one, although we have scored fewer we have had periods when we have been harder to beat. Although again that is a bit of a counudrum as I reckon we''ve already had more serious pastings this season than last. Last season we were heavily reliant on Holt, this season we have been heavily reliant on Bassong.

But I think Holt had to stay since his departure at the same time as Lambert would have made the situation even worse and destabilised the playing squad. I remember the Worthington promotion when Malky Mackay was shipped out and I think Iwan Roberts left too, both talsimanic figures we could really have used even had they not started every game. It is important to consider the bigger picture, not just the stats.

[Syteanric 1]

Holt threw a wobbly, got his contract.. the goals and the performances dried up....Club caved in and you could argue that McNally kept Holt for fear of it being "Chase out" all over again...me, I''d have sold him...6 million pounds could have got us Becchio, Kamara, Garrido permanently perhaps plus maybe even a couple more new faces.Holts starting to play well now Becchio is here... worried about place? worried wont be the darling? either way, his time will come one day.. it wouldn''t surprise me if we spend a few quid if these aren''t Grant''s last few months at Norwich...

[PKC 0]

Except I would really be surprised if we were ever offered anything like 6 million; and as for playing better since Becchio arrived Holt has had one game (QPR A) since Becchio arrived so that is hell of a leap.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

1) Holt is played as a lone striker2) He has zero supportI bet that he will score against Everton if we give him a partner. I hate how we always have to point a finger at someone  !

[Shack Attack 0]

These threads always blur into quite black and white ''anti-Holt'' and ''pro-Holt'' arguments which probably don''t do the subject justice. Grant Holt is quite rightly held up as one of the main reasons for our rise from League One basketcase to potential established Premier League side. His contribution since arriving at the club has been immense. But his style of play does pose a problem for a manager who has identified that we need to tighten up defensively (and before anyone seeks to blame Chris Hughton for any perceived negativity it is worth noting that this is something Paul Lambert also recognised) as he is not the traditional ''Number 9'' which so many seek to pigeonhole him as.Chris Hughton has decided to use Grant Holt as our lone striker this season but this doesn''t really play to his strengths. I don''t think it is any coincidence that when Paul Lambert switched to one up front he almost always called on Steve Morison to play the role of lone striker. Morison''s lack of form meant that this was really no longer an option and instead it is Holt who has found himself as the lone striker. The problem of course is that Holt is not the traditional ''Number 9'' that Morison was and likes to come deep and wide to link up with the midfield. The way that Morison played this role was, wrongly in my view, described as being lazy but his style was more suited to playing the role of a lone striker. Grant Holt, as I have suggested in the past and Nutty Nigel has taken further by suggesting he could play the role that Wes currently holds, is really a ''Nine and a Half'' in that he breaks the rules of the lone striker. And it is this that sort of leads us back through the emotion and talk of talismen to the OP. Now I don''t know if McNally was undermined over the whole contract issue but I suspect he was not. I doubt he was very happy about the actions of Holt''s agent, this seems fairly clear from tweets and press releases at this time, but I would like to think he recognised the potential effect of losing our captain at the same time as our manager was jumping ship. But at the same time you have to wonder whether the reported £6million that West Ham were offering would have allowed us to recruit in a way which would have reduced that overall effect. Nobody knows but I suspect that it will not be a position we ever find ourselves in again.My view is that it was the right decision to keep him and that he has contributed plenty this season albeit in a different role. But I think that we might need to improve on him (and others) next season if we want to continue to progress.

[drurys testamonials V 15 0]

[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]Sorry, sorry, sorry.... I''m thinking of completely the wrong user. Remember Arthur Whittle? I thought he was wiz. Whatever happened to Arthur Whittle? In that case, this Wiz person is some anonymous troll imposter and should be hung from the gallows immediately.[/quote]

 

I believe Arthur passed away some time ago

[drurys testamonials V 15 0]

[quote user="PKC"]Except I would really be surprised if we were ever offered anything like 6 million; and as for playing better since Becchio arrived Holt has had one game (QPR A) since Becchio arrived so that is hell of a leap.[/quote]

 

£6 million was price tag not offer.