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Pete Raven

Norwich City in plea to persistent standers

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Sitting vs standing is a separate argument.

 

Some people like to sit to watch a game, some like to sit. Some like to be vocal throughout the game, others prefer to watch it in their own way and own little world. Neither are "better", "worse" or "plastic" supporters because of their preference.

 

The argument here is that the club has to follow the law of the land. Its all very well saying "ignore the stewards", fine, but then you are suggesting you won''t give a flying one if the club is fined or has its capacity reduced because of people "ignoring the stewards" -and actions that lead to that are not those of a true supporter of the club-if you think they are, if you think doing so regardless of any punishment does make you a real fan, then please explain, because I can''t see it myself!

 

Everyone gets up when something is happening, everyone gets up to celebrate a goal else make a point-a bad decision, foul, whatever. Getting up, making a point and sitting down again, generally, is something the stewards can let go because I don''t think the authorities regard that as a breach of the regulations-even if it is-what they are clamping down on is whole swathes of fans, at every game, standing up for long periods of time and they will clamp down on any offenders, us included. I personally think there ought to be some sort of outlet for standing at all grounds  but it isn''t going to happen anytime so we''ve got to put up with it.

 

The "I pay my money so I have the right to stand" argument doesn''t apply-the price of a ticket gives you right of entry but you are, in buying it, agreeing to the rules and regulations of entry-which is why there is no defence for anyone if they are nicked for persistent standing, the implication will be you knew you mustn''t so take whats coming!

 

And they will clamp down on some clubs soon-and probably want to, to make an example. Lets make sure we''re not one of them.

 

 

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[quote user="City1st"]

"Ground regulations are there for health and safety reasons as they don''t want anyone to get injured, people don''t want to get sued!"

 

So it is not health and safety, it is the avoidance of possible litigation

 

as stated

 

 

[/quote]So you are wrong and trying to worm out of it? You stated its not health and safety even though it technically is, its both, its in the health and safety section of ground regulations.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Grant Holts 3 year contract"]If our fans really dont want us to stand then why do so many people stand at away games?Standing = better atmosphere. Some people want to go to football and not scream or shout or anything- others want to back their team.Away games are better (in my opinion) because the people that go wish to back their team vocally. Doris and her old dearie mates... do not.[/quote]This is only your opinion.So when you''re grown up, and don''t want to stand anymore, you''ll stop going to matches?[/quote]

No, he won''t. He will just go and sit in a part of the ground that is reserved for people who want to sit. Like it used to be.

Hillsborough wasn''t caused by people who were standing, it was caused by disastrous mis management or bad stadium design. If the recent enquiry was held when it happened rather than 23 years later then all seater stadiums would not have been legislated in this way.

But it''s done it''s job now, as evident by this message board, divide and rule. Rather than arguing amongst ourselves ALL football fans should be speaking as one to argue the case for a return to mixed stadium. If standing is not your bag than it won''t mean that you will be forced to stand so you should also speak up for those who do want to stand because it will mean that there will be no one standing in your areas at all, just as you want it.

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For all you guys who keep saying "I CAN STAND WHEN I WANT" and "KILLING THE ATMOSPHERE" this is addressed to you.

First of all, I like standing. Safe standing that is. I believe it does make the atmosphere better and increases the singing and chanting a lot more than standing. I also believe there can be methods of safe standing implemented into most grounds in the UK. In fact, I would like to happen.

But, we must not have people standing up now in places like the snakepit, barclay etc. Why? Because this puts pressure on the club. Remember people, it is the LAW that says we shouldn''t be standing. If the club can''t stop all you numpties from standing up, we risk being fined, or even worse, having people ejected and tickets being taken away from people.

Of course, this would generate outrage from the fans and we can''t have that.

So please, just (pun intended) sit through this peroid of time. If you really want to make a difference, sign a petition or join a group and try and get the law changed. Do not try and be a rebel and make others suffer for it.

/rant over

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City1st. having a bad day??

i wish my laptop had included the smiley face after my h&s police comment. i appear to have given you a one line comment for you to vent your spleen!!

btw - not everyone on here reads the daily mail just because irony or sarcastic humour is lost on you.

also, without boring you, i am aware of h&s responsibility through my employment, i am 40 years old so don''t really need for you to tell me to grow up.

finally, i am btw typing with just finger while cuddling my 8month old child, so please excuse my inconsistent use of appropriate capital letters. He however has an opinion of the daily mail, similar to his used nappy.

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I shall be adopting a policy of doing what i always do at the game tomorrow. I will stand for parts of the game (when there is vague excitement - I don;t expect it to be long periods) and I will sit for periods of the game when the game is dull or their is a lull in proceedings.

I don;t accept there is any safety risk with people standing. I don''t believe there is any risk of sections of the ground being closed. This is all just regulatory jobsworths justifying their existence and the clubs having to be seen to react to the regulatory jobsworths and recent press articles on the subject.

The only thing i would accept does maybe pose a slight health and safety risk is the surge to the front of the snakepit when we score a dramatic late goal but (i) good luck trying to stop that and (ii) we don;t score dramatic late goals now anyway!

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[quote user="Plan b"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Grant Holts 3 year contract"]If our fans really dont want us to stand then why do so many people stand at away games?Standing = better atmosphere. Some people want to go to football and not scream or shout or anything- others want to back their team.Away games are better (in my opinion) because the people that go wish to back their team vocally. Doris and her old dearie mates... do not.[/quote]This is only your opinion.So when you''re grown up, and don''t want to stand anymore, you''ll stop going to matches?[/quote]

No, he won''t. He will just go and sit in a part of the ground that is reserved for people who want to sit. Like it used to be.

Hillsborough wasn''t caused by people who were standing, it was caused by disastrous mis management or bad stadium design. If the recent enquiry was held when it happened rather than 23 years later then all seater stadiums would not have been legislated in this way.

But it''s done it''s job now, as evident by this message board, divide and rule. Rather than arguing amongst ourselves ALL football fans should be speaking as one to argue the case for a return to mixed stadium. If standing is not your bag than it won''t mean that you will be forced to stand so you should also speak up for those who do want to stand because it will mean that there will be no one standing in your areas at all, just as you want it.[/quote]Now now plan B... standing is evil and dangerous according to the supposed experts..And if you are seen to be pro standing then that must mean that you automatically want all standing stadiums?See, I can put words in peoples mouths as well [:D]

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[quote user="Plan b"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Grant Holts 3 year contract"]If our fans really dont want us to stand then why do so many people stand at away games?Standing = better atmosphere. Some people want to go to football and not scream or shout or anything- others want to back their team.Away games are better (in my opinion) because the people that go wish to back their team vocally. Doris and her old dearie mates... do not.[/quote]This is only your opinion.So when you''re grown up, and don''t want to stand anymore, you''ll stop going to matches?[/quote]

No, he won''t. He will just go and sit in a part of the ground that is reserved for people who want to sit. Like it used to be.

Hillsborough wasn''t caused by people who were standing, it was caused by disastrous mis management or bad stadium design. If the recent enquiry was held when it happened rather than 23 years later then all seater stadiums would not have been legislated in this way.

But it''s done it''s job now, as evident by this message board, divide and rule. Rather than arguing amongst ourselves ALL football fans should be speaking as one to argue the case for a return to mixed stadium. If standing is not your bag than it won''t mean that you will be forced to stand so you should also speak up for those who do want to stand because it will mean that there will be no one standing in your areas at all, just as you want it.[/quote]Carrow road can be a mixed stadium with standing in the Barclay and lower N&P the away fans can be moved to either of the new safe standing areas or kept in the Jarrold and told to sit

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[quote user="Plan b"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Grant Holts 3 year contract"]If our fans really dont want us to stand then why do so many people stand at away games?Standing = better atmosphere. Some people want to go to football and not scream or shout or anything- others want to back their team.Away games are better (in my opinion) because the people that go wish to back their team vocally. Doris and her old dearie mates... do not.[/quote]This is only your opinion.So when you''re grown up, and don''t want to stand anymore, you''ll stop going to matches?[/quote]

No, he won''t. He will just go and sit in a part of the ground that is reserved for people who want to sit. Like it used to be.

Hillsborough wasn''t caused by people who were standing, it was caused by disastrous mis management or bad stadium design. If the recent enquiry was held when it happened rather than 23 years later then all seater stadiums would not have been legislated in this way.

But it''s done it''s job now, as evident by this message board, divide and rule. Rather than arguing amongst ourselves ALL football fans should be speaking as one to argue the case for a return to mixed stadium. If standing is not your bag than it won''t mean that you will be forced to stand so you should also speak up for those who do want to stand because it will mean that there will be no one standing in your areas at all, just as you want it.[/quote]Its all pie in the sky.The fact is that you''re not allowed to stand, end of.There is actually nothing whatsoever to debate, it isn''t in our hands.I should imagine McNally would love to turn the lower Barclay into a safe standing area and increase the capacity, for a reasonably small outlay by 5000 fans (figure totally guessed) but its not going to happen, anytime soon, in my opinion.

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be careful posting your opinion. The Daily Mail readers police will be after you......

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There is no point moaning about the club/stewards because their hands are tied. They have to show to the police and licensing authorities that they are taking action to keep matches at Carrow Road within the letter of the regulations as it stands.

If we want change, and I mean in this sense a CHOICE for all fans - those who want to sit, and those who want to stand - then football fans at all clubs and particularly those on this messageboard need to stop bickering and fighting and actually show the authorities that they want a choice.

If you want to sit you should have an area in the ground, whether it be home or away, where you know you won''t have your view impeded. If you want to stand you should equally have an area in the ground where you can safely stand with like-minded individuals. No tension, perfectly safe.

Nothing is going to happen until the legislation is changed. Forget about targeting the club on this for now - target the authorities.

This is a good place to start http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/view/safe-standing-campaign

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I look forward to the mock Danny Dyer hard boys trying to make a point about this tomorrow, and being chucked out.As said by others, yeah, it would be good if it happened, but if you think you can fight the system, I hope you''re looking forward to listening to future matches on Radio Norfolk.

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It will probably never happen, but with Aston villa, Man city, QPR, Sunderland, Swansea, West ham pushing for it do you think this will increase the likely hood but these clubs are doing it for the increase revenue rather than the fans.

On 17th January 2012, the Birmingham Mail newspaper reported that Premier League club “Aston Villa were exploring the possibility of introducing a safe-standing area at Villa Park”.[46].

The club publicly backed a new campaign for trials of standing areas in

October 2012 and offered to run a trial safe standing area at Villa ParManchester City announced it would trial safe standing if the Football

Association approves the initiative. The club previously had the The Kippax terrace stand at Maine Road.[57][58]Another owner who has responded positively on Twitter to questions about

safe standing is Tony Fernandes of QPR. Asked "Would you consider a

trial for standing at rangers?", Mr Fernandes retweeted the question and

replied "I would. But I am far far away from being an expert on the

issue. Would be great at loftus road." He followed this up with a

further Tweet, saying "As a fan and owner I would love to see standing",

but that he would need to speak to ''the expert'', QPR chief executive

Phil Beard.Sunderland AFC fanzine ''A Love Supreme'' published an article in which the club''s stadium manager, Paul Weir, confirmed that he was "open

minded about possible future changes and if the regulations let us,

then as a club we would like to give fans who want to stand the

opportunity to do so in a safe, appropriately designated area
".[66]

Club chairman Huw Jenkins formally backed the campaign. He had shown his

support at two recent events organised by the Swans Trust.[67]

West Ham Co-Chairman David Gold has indicated that he would be willing to cosider the possibility of installing safe standing areas at the Olympic Stadium were the club successful in its bid to use the facility[70]

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Morty : "Its all pie in the sky"

Hope its not a peppered steak pie, cos that''ll just give ''em all something else to moan about.........

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[quote user="djc"]Morty : "Its all pie in the sky"

Hope its not a peppered steak pie, cos that''ll just give ''em all something else to moan about.........[/quote]I take the sensible option and get my pie based products from Morrissons[Y]

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="djc"]Morty : "Its all pie in the sky"

Hope its not a peppered steak pie, cos that''ll just give ''em all something else to moan about.........[/quote]I take the sensible option and get my pie based products from Morrissons[Y][/quote]Make sure its not horse

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Hope you sit down while eating the pie based morrisons products*.

* other supermarkets pie based products are available *

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This is outrageous. Why would anyone buying a seat ticket in an all seater stadium expect to be able to sit and watch the ''entertainment'' without someone being deprived of their human right to stand and obstruct the view.

All those who stand should take a class-action suit to the European Court of Human Rights on the grounds that people sitting in seats provided for that very purpose are preventing them having a fun Saturday afternoon. Perhaps they could have all the sitters deported.

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[quote user="djc"]Hope you sit down while eating the pie based morrisons products*.

* other supermarkets pie based products are available *[/quote]Out of respect for current football legislation, and common courtesy to other fans around me, I shall.[;)]

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Ever since the "I''ll never sit at Carra Rud" campaign blocks D and E of the Barclay have stood, with many people willing to be thrown out in order to stand up for their principles (pun intended). I think this should continue no matter what as it is important to send the massage out to the authorities that people still wish to stand at football matches. I hope that there is a huge issue with this at tomorrow''s game. Anyone stupid enough to get a ticket at the back of these blocks and then complain about the view is naive. Our match day experience has been watered down enough.I don''t care about fines or reduced capacity, the Barclay needs to stand and sing loud and proud.

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[quote user="Taiwan Canary"]Ever since the "I''ll never sit at Carra Rud" campaign blocks D and E of the Barclay have stood, with many people willing to be thrown out in order to stand up for their principles (pun intended). I think this should continue no matter what as it is important to send the massage out to the authorities that people still wish to stand at football matches. I hope that there is a huge issue with this at tomorrow''s game. Anyone stupid enough to get a ticket at the back of these blocks and then complain about the view is naive. Our match day experience has been watered down enough.I don''t care about fines or reduced capacity, the Barclay needs to stand and sing loud and proud.[/quote]Good luck with falling on your sword for the "greater good"And enjoy Radio Norfolk[Y]

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Morty.

Dispose of your excess pie based product wrappings sensibly and carefully. Don''t get accused of being a binner!

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[quote user="djc"]Morty.

Dispose of your excess pie based product wrappings sensibly and carefully. Don''t get accused of being a binner![/quote]I see what you did there.[;)]

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

No they haven''t said it''s a silly idea. It''s just that there''s a lot of silly people.

 

Whether or not clubs in the future can have safe standing areas is not the ishoooo. The present dictates that the club has to abide by the rules in the ground regulations. If you think shoft lifting should be made legal then there''s no point in expecting the police not to arrest you until you get the law changed.

 

[/quote]Not quite the same thing Nutty.Shoplifting is a criminal offence. Standing in an all-seater stadium is a civil matter so the police don''t get involved unless a criminal offence is committed as a result of someone not taking too kindly to being told to sit down.

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[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="nutty nigel"]

No they haven''t said it''s a silly idea. It''s just that there''s a lot of silly people.

 

Whether or not clubs in the future can have safe standing areas is not the ishoooo. The present dictates that the club has to abide by the rules in the ground regulations. If you think shoft lifting should be made legal then there''s no point in expecting the police not to arrest you until you get the law changed.


[/quote]

Not quite the same thing Nutty.

Shoplifting is a criminal offence. Standing in an all-seater stadium is a civil matter so the police don''t get involved unless a criminal offence is committed as a result of someone not taking too kindly to being told to sit down.
[/quote]

 

No you''re right Smithy. It''s not quite the same thing. But it''s the same principle. And if you''ve ever had terminal conversations with the beast and his little book then you''d know what I mean. Bottom line is that if ground regulations are ignored by either the supporters or the club or both then there will be consequences eventually. And this has quite obviously been brewing most of the season.

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Ches right hand man "]All these threads seem to be full of arguments.[/quote]

 

What did you expect? Are you that simple as to think that if you called someone a cnut they''d just take it?

 

Actually.....

 

[/quote]Just shows what a crazy place this board is sometimes doesn''t it Nutty.Here we have someone who sits obediently in the N & P out of '' politeness '' to his fellow fans then calls you a naughty four letter word on here.Couldn''t make it up......

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[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="morty"][quote user="Ches right hand man "]All these threads seem to be full of arguments.[/quote]No they don''t.[/quote]I like that Monty Python sketch too.....[/quote]Glad someone got it.[;)]

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And anyway, McNally knows where you all live, stand tomorrow and he''ll be round your house to eat your liver with some fava beand and a nice chianti.

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