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Norwich Academy Team that have left.

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Population of England: 53,013,000

Clubs In Top Four Tiers: 92

Population Per Club: 576,228

Population of Norfolk: 859,400

Clubs In Norfolk: 1

Population Per Club: 859,400

Stop using the catchment area excuse. We don''t find it difficult to find season ticket holders in Norfolk, our failure to find football players in Norfolk is a exactly that.... a failure.

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Danny Mills played for England and was particularly special because he was one of the even fewer city boys to reach such a level.

 

Sooo much other rubbish in your tirades. I''m not going to trawl back and see if it was you or beth but we had Korey Smith wasn''t a schoolboy with Arsenal.We had Southampton already were cat one academy, and we had your earlier rants showing you quite clearly didn''t understand the difference between travelling time and travelling miles.

 

Now if you''d seriously like to debate why Norfolk doesn''t appear produce it''s fair share of decent footballers then I''d welcome it. I''d love it in fact. So much so that I''d suffer all your childish rants in silence. But I think you''d be barking up the wrong tree to blame our academy. Could it be Norfolk people are not as good at football? Or crap in your belligerent style? I guess it could but there''d have to be an underlying reason for that. Have you got any rants about what that underlying reason may be?

 

 

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"Jordan Rhodes (£8m)
Connor Wickham (£13m)
Darren Bent (£18m)

That''s £39m worth of former Ipswich academy strikers out in the world. 

 

Oh dear, you don''t appear to be too bright do you ( the clue is in the last four words).

 

And poor old boy blunder was not sold for £13m (the clue here is Jonathan Barnett)


Liam Trotter (Millwall)
Dean Bowditch (MK Dons)
Owen Garvan (Crystal Palace)
Tommy Smith (Ipswich)
Luke Hyam (Ipswich)
Josh Carson (Ipswich)
Richard Wright (Man City)

 

Only three of whom are currently at poorman road. What benefit other than a minimal transfer fee have they delivered for the paupers ? I''m sure were we to be in the Championship, and without a pot to pee in at least three from Korey Smith, Tom Adeyami, George Francombe, Declan Rudd and Chris Martin would have played the same number of games as those three binners

 

Curiously you make no mention of that wonder production line of keepers that have come from poorman road - Richard Wright and errr ........ Lewis Price, who appears to share dear old ''plugs'' gift for warming the bench (12 apps since 2007). Whereas we have seen Andy Marshall,  Rob Green, Joe Lewis, Declan Rudd and Jed Steer come through. Maybe if you hire a goalkeeper for his son''s footballing abilities it might have a detrimental affect on your acadamy, who knows.

 

What I do know is that if we have cut corners in youth development to fit in with the budget then maybe in the long term it has not been such a bad thing. Sure the Bristol set up may have had to go, but the Carrow Road set up remains. One that seems a million miles from the poorman road set up, never mind 90 mile or 90 minutes. One that is also tens and tens of millions of pounds away from poorman road.

 

You talk of the boy blunder, yet fail to mention that he dropped into their lap (much as Angus Gunn did with us) when his dad moved from Reading to Colchester. Or how little his contribution has been to the paupers cause - being mostly their need to ''settle up'' with Sunderland. A rather unhealthy relationship that strongly features the slippery figure of Jonathan Barnett, who has been well able to talk up his prodigies from poorman road but has never really got them to deliver. Dyer, Wright, Bumble, Bent....

 

Likewise Southampton, despite all your over exited talk about who they have produced. They were relegated with us - and went bankrupt. And took longer to get back into the PL than us, and then only with outside ''help''.  Perhaps you would care to tell us where tells us where these two clubs would be were they to have paid their debts ?  Around £100m in debt in the paupers case.

 

I''m sure there is a direct link between the money spent and the development of youth players. Much as can be seen at poorman road where despite their penniless state and lowly position only one player from their youth set yo can command aregular place in their first team. Evans cost cutting a few years back saw to that and will guarantee that resource is pretty much dry for the next few seasons. Harsh days for them, having to try and pay their way for once - but the consequences of poncing off all and sundry are now coming home to roost.

 

We paid our way, at the cost of much .... but I certainly know whose shoes I would rather be in

 

ps what league are Crewe in ?

 

 

 

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''Stop using the catchment area excuse. We don''t find it difficult to find season ticket holders in Norfolk, our failure to find football players in Norfolk is a exactly that.... a failure.''

Really?

How many top flight footballers are from Norfolk? Are you suggesting that there are lots of people from Norfolk who are good enough, who just never played (professional) football because they were never recruited by us?

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]''Stop using the catchment area excuse. We don''t find it difficult to find season ticket holders in Norfolk, our failure to find football players in Norfolk is a exactly that.... a failure.''

Really?

How many top flight footballers are from Norfolk? Are you suggesting that there are lots of people from Norfolk who are good enough, who just never played (professional) football because they were never recruited by us?[/quote]Poor coaching of our youth? And poor coaching at grass root level?

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Norwich only look at physical attributes of young players rather than talent. Height matter a lot to the Norwich  coaching staff, we''re too old fashion in are approach.

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[quote user="Ches right hand man "]Norwich only look at physical attributes of young players rather than talent. Height matter a lot to the Norwich  coaching staff, we''re too old fashion in are approach.
[/quote]

 

Through the decades that would be then. 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s. But that doesn''t explain Bellas or Eadie or Fox or the countless other boys that have been through the academy. Just the Norfolk ones?

 

 

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"Oh dear, you don''t appear to be too bright do you ( the clue is in the last four words)"

Obviously not bright enough to know what the hell you are talking about.

"And poor old boy blunder was not sold for £13m (the clue here is Jonathan Barnett)"

£13m subject to conditions.

"Only three of whom are currently at poorman road"

Liam Trotter and Owen Garvan are playing for teams above Ipswich in the League.

"I''m sure were we to be in the Championship, and without a pot to pee in at least three from Korey Smith, Tom Adeyami, George Francombe, Declan Rudd and Chris Martin would have played the same number of games as those three binners"

Probably, but they wouldn''t make a team of former Norwich players would they? Which was the topic of this thread. Besides, it only signals the potential beginning of the end of a decade or more of completely non-productivity from our academy.

"Curiously you make no mention of that wonder production line of keepers that have come from poorman road"

No but I mentioned their production line of strikers.

"Lewis Price, who appears to share dear old ''plugs'' gift for warming the bench (12 apps since 2007)"

I have no idea what the relevance of naming an unsuccessful Ipswich academy product is in an argument which puts forth my assertion that Ipswich produce more decent players than Norwich, but Joe Lewis is warming a bench at Cardiff, Aaran Lee Barrett is warming a bench at Ipswich, Andy Marshall has played 3 games in four years, and Lewis Price isn''t too far short of Mark Bunn''s appearance record - both are 28. If we are playing a game of "list the failed footballers" then that''s an easy one for me to play, if you have all year. Danny Gay didn''t cut the mustard. It remains to be seen what level Rudd and Steer will settle at, but at 22 years old and with just 20 appearances under his belt, I wouldn''t bet too much money on him being any more successful than Lewis Price - he has played for Wales twice this year, by the way. Rudd and Steer both have a very long way to go, I can remember when Ryan Jarvis was the next big thing and Chris Martin was supposedly wanted by Man Utd.

"What I do know is that if we have cut corners in youth development to fit in with the budget then maybe in the long term it has not been such a bad thing"

We have absolutely no way of knowing, we didn''t do too badly out of Bellamy, Fox, Eadie, O''Neill, and Sutton though did we.

"Sure the Bristol set up may have had to go, but the Carrow Road set up remains. One that seems a million miles from the poorman road set up, never mind 90 mile or 90 minutes"

If Bristol had to go for financial reasons, then how could Hatfield be established?

"One that seems a million miles from the poorman road set up, never mind 90 mile or 90 minutes"

On what basis? On the basis that Colney looks nice? Come back when we have a Darren Bent or a Jordan Rhodes to our name. Because we have an indoor pitch? Ipswich have one of those too.

"One that is also tens and tens of millions of pounds away from poorman road"

Exaggerating much? Tens and tens of millions of pounds? What are you on about? Seriously?

"he dropped into their lap (much as Angus Gunn did with us) when his dad moved from Reading to Colchester"

Right, and why couldn''t he have dropped into our lap? Angus Gunn was born in Norwich and raised in Norfolk you muppet.

"Or how little his contribution has been to the paupers cause - being mostly their need to ''settle up'' with Sunderland"

Pretty instrumental in settling a large debt then I assume.

"ho has been well able to talk up his prodigies from poorman road but has never really got them to deliver. Dyer, Wright, Bumble, Bent"

Three England Internationals and an England Under 21 International then, all of whom spent most of their careers in the Premier League? A striker who has scored 101 Premier League goals?

"Likewise Southampton, despite all your over exited talk about who they have produced. They were relegated with us - and went bankrupt"

Their Academy has made a huge profit over the past decade. Oxlade-Chamberlain, Theo Walcott, Gareth Bale..... and Adam Lallana has been essential in their rise back to the top. They now have Luke Shaw playing in the Premier League at 17. We''ve got one of their cast offs in our reserve team.

"And took longer to get back into the PL than us, and then only with outside ''help''"

Define "outside help". You mean "investment" I assume. We had a donation from a turkey farmer, had to beg fans to give back a season ticket rebate, and somehow managed to persuade our biggest creditor to delay repayments for a year.

"I''m sure there is a direct link between the money spent and the development of youth players. Much as can be seen at poorman road where despite their penniless state and lowly position"

Purely speculative unfounded nonesense. You have no idea how much Ipswich have spent on youth development over the past decade or so, and you would only have access to that same information from Norwich for as long as they have been a PLC. I suspect that youth development is the most or only profitable part of the Ipswich and Southampton businesses. Ipswich were paying £40k a week to Sereni and Finidi George, that''s where their money went. Southampton, as you well know, built a huge stadium.

"Only one player from their youth set yo can command a regular place in their first team"

Yet at least two, probably three, of their former academy players could get in our first team in the Premier League, and arguably one of our former youth players could get games in ours (Bellamy) while another is probably worth a place as our #2 keeper (Green).

"Perhaps you would care to tell us where tells us where these two clubs would be were they to have paid their debts?"

No because a question which is impossible to answer without physic powers is one which is impossible for me to answer. Perhaps you would care to tell me where those clubs would be without the proceeds from the sales of Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Walcott, Bent, Dyer and Wickham. Perhaps you could tell me where we would be without the proceeds from Sutton, Eadie, Green, Fox, Bellamy, and O''Neill over the years. One thing that we would have been highly unlikely to have had is our little trip to the continent. Eadie was told when he was sold that the club were broke and needed their £3m. Are you saying that the club didn''t need to sell Eadie and Bellamy?

"Evans cost cutting a few years back saw to that and will guarantee that resource is pretty much dry for the next few seasons"

Yes and I hope they suffer for years and years, so much so that hardcore Ipswich fans have sleepless nights crying hard into their pillows.

"We paid our way, at the cost of much .... but I certainly know whose shoes I would rather be in"

We might not have been able to without player sales in the pre and post Delia days, as you well know. We never entered the third tier of English football when our academy was productive, did we? Whilst on the subject of "correlations", perhaps we can draw a strong correlation between the poor performance of our academy and the most dismal years in our modern history. We struggled in times when Spillane, Sinclair, and Eagle were being used on the pitch. We did alright when Shackell and Green were in our team.

"ps what league are Crewe in?"

With average gates of 4000 and a population smaller than that of Great Yarmouth, with three of the countries biggest and most successful clubs on their doorstep, probably a league higher than they should be. Rubbish comparison. Getting Crewe into the second tier made Dario Gradi a genius and it was only possible with homegrown players.

ps. When did Crewe go bankrupt?

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"Through the decades that would be then. 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s. But that doesn''t explain Bellas or Eadie or Fox or the countless other boys that have been through the academy. Just the Norfolk ones?"

It does explain why Bobby Zamora was released for being too short. I wouldn''t call him short-ass to his face now, would you?

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"How many top flight footballers are from Norfolk? Are you suggesting that there are lots of people from Norfolk who are good enough, who just never played (professional) football because they were never recruited by us?"

No, I''m suggesting that the club have consistently failed to sufficiently develop the hundreds of Norfolk born academy players that pass through their doors. Signing them at 8 or 9 and churning them out at 18 or 19 as good enough to play for Lowestoft or Kings Lynn.

Either people from Norfolk are crap at football, or we are doing something wrong.

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[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]"Through the decades that would be then. 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s. But that doesn''t explain Bellas or Eadie or Fox or the countless other boys that have been through the academy. Just the Norfolk ones?" It does explain why Bobby Zamora was released for being too short. I wouldn''t call him short-ass to his face now, would you?[/quote]

 

So that''s it then. Problem solved. It''s all because some players have been released because they weren''t tall enough. Even if they weren''t born in Norfolk. Glad that''s cleared up.

 

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Ches right hand man "]Norwich only look at physical attributes of young players rather than talent. Height matter a lot to the Norwich  coaching staff, we''re too old fashion in are approach. [/quote]

 

Through the decades that would be then. 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s. But that doesn''t explain Bellas or Eadie or Fox or the countless other boys that have been through the academy. Just the Norfolk ones?

 

 

[/quote]Ask the parents of the kids getting rejected because they''re not tall or bulky enough, and the answer is already there in your question "But that doesn''t explain Bellas or Eadie or Fox or the countless other boys that have been through the academy." If we''re not signing young players like these at grass roots or from other academies then in modern time which is now we aint producing, the problem has been already said the scouts are favouring  physically attributes like height, weight and strength over technique and other footballing skills. 

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It has long been the case at Norwich that they like boys who are physically very well developed at a very young age and pick those over technically very good but undeveloped boys.

Ryan Jarvis, brought to you by Ricky Martin, a man who has never played professional football.

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Our academy went seriously downhill after the departure of Sammy Morgan in 2004.Jason Shackell made his debut in August 2003.

What has come out of the youth system in the 9 years since Ricky Martin come onto the scene?

Nothing.

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[quote user="Ches right hand man "][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Ches right hand man "]Norwich only look at physical attributes of young players rather than talent. Height matter a lot to the Norwich  coaching staff, we''re too old fashion in are approach.
[/quote]

 

Through the decades that would be then. 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s. But that doesn''t explain Bellas or Eadie or Fox or the countless other boys that have been through the academy. Just the Norfolk ones?

 

 

[/quote]

Ask the parents of the kids getting rejected because they''re not tall or bulky enough, and the answer is already there in your question "But that doesn''t explain Bellas or Eadie or Fox or the countless other boys that have been through the academy." If we''re not signing young players like these at grass roots or from other academies then in modern time which is now we aint producing, the problem has been already said the scouts are favouring  physically attributes like height, weight and strength over technique and other footballing skills. 
[/quote]

 

This does not explain why historically Norfolk boys don''t do as well as those from elsewhere. It may help grind an axe but that''s as far as it goes. Why were there so few Norfolk born players at the top of the pyramid at a time when those leagues were crammed full of British players? I thought Singrant was going to enlighten us but he turns out to be a damp squib.

 

 

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Then what does explain that Nigel? The only reason that I can think of is that the vast majority of them sign for Norwich City, who for some reason or another haven''t proved successful at turning them into good professional footballers.

How do we know that Rossi Jarvis and Ryan Jarvis wouldn''t have been quality players if coming through somebody else''s system.

Would John Sutton be has good now if he''d have stayed at Norwich instead of leaving for Spurs aged 12? He was born and raised in Norfolk.

Jackson Ramm was released at 13, he went on to impress on trial at Manchester United and got signed by Blackburn. He is now 19 and one of their hot prospects, is on loan at Colchester.

Why did Sam Kelly elect to leave Norwich and join Everton?

Why did Angus Bunn elect to leave Norwich and join Man City?

Maybe the reason why we don''t produce players is because the players all want to go somewhere better.

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Where are these players then? Throughout the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s where did they play? Who did they play for? What alias did they use when they gained international caps? I don''t pretend to have the answers. You do. But thanks to the other guy we have a suggestion that it is all Ricky Martin''s fault. So that''s a starting point. Over to you Singrant....

 

 

 

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So the argument now is that Norfolk doesn''t produce enough players?

That wasn''t the argument that I signed up for, my argument was that the decline in our academy coincided with the closure of our Bristol centre of excellence and the departure of Sammy Morgan.

Although it is true that we have spent millions of pounds over the past nine years producing players who come out at 18 as just about good enough to play for Lowestoft.

You are the one who is supposed to be defending the academy, I''m the one who is saying that it has been a waste of money and unsuccessful.

It is almost a decade since Jason Shackell made his Norwich debut.

By all means continue talking about how rubbish players from Norfolk are, it will only further the argument that I''ve had from the very beginning, which is that the closure of our Bristol centre of excellence was a mistake.

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Can''t be bothered to read the whole thread, but has the relatively small population of Norfolk been considered as a factor?

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Fine then nutty from 2004 we''re produce f''all due to poor coaching and piss poor youth recruitment from the catchment area around Norfolk and Hertfordshire. The scounts are failing to spot talent at grass root level.

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[quote user="morty"]Can''t be bothered to read the whole thread, but has the relatively small population of Norfolk been considered as a factor?[/quote]Not really, when there is no/little competition from other clubs for our local boys. You may say other part are more denser population wise but you also have to consider there are more professional clubs in the other areas too. 

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Morty, I calculated that the population of Norfolk is not small when taking into consideration that there is only one professional club.

There are more people per professional club in Norfolk than there are people per professional club in London.

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[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]Morty, I calculated that the population of Norfolk is not small when taking into consideration that there is only one professional club.

There are more people per professional club in Norfolk than there are people per professional club in London.[/quote]Whilst I technically see what you''re saying, I have no answer to that.I''m out.

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But, unless you properly analyse the population, the figures will be skewed.

I''m not sure of precise demographics but, in North Norfolk certainly, you''d find a much higher percentage of OAPs than is the national average.

Historically, I''d also hazard a guess that a higher percentage of professional footballers come from a traditionally working class inner city background. Places already mentioned like Liverpool, Newcastle and I remember there being a documentary about part of Essex/East London (can''t recall exactly) that has produced loads of players from Moore through to Redknapp and Beckham.

There can''t be many footballers from farming backgrounds and there definitely aren''t many that are middle class. I''d imagine that rules out a fairly big percentage but of course, I''m only hypothesising.

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Great Yarmouth has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country, so if deprivation is the key to having the hunger and desire, then where are all the Yarmouth born footballers? King''s Lynn is hardly affluent, half decent town centre aside.

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Oh right. Yeah. That is true. You''re the expert on population, how does the population of Great Yarmouth compare to that of Tower Hamlets or Haringey?

If Wayne Rooney had moved to Yarmouth, would he be playing for Mundesley and not Man United then?

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