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Norwich Academy Team that have left.

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[quote user="Ches right hand man "][quote user="nutty nigel"]

And the much vaunted binboy academy, despite the riches of their much vaunted rich investor, didn''t apply for cat one. Much to the dismay of the binfans.

 

 

[/quote]

We can only afford it because we''re in the premier league, most champs clubs can''t afford to pay for cat 1 and pay for promotion. 
[/quote]

 

But we don''t have that shiny rich investor...

 

 

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[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]They are the only rules that I can find Nutty Nigel, seeing as you have quite obviously read the rules yourself, perhaps you can link to them for my convenience, preferably with the rule number which states that players must live within 90 minutes of the parent academy to sign for a satellite academy? Whilst you are at it, perhaps you could explain how it is exactly that you can travel from Cardiff to Southampton in 90 minutes. Perhaps you could also explain how Korey Smith could travel from Hatfield to Norwich in 90 minutes, according to the AA it takes 2 hours 11 minutes. Perhaps you could also explain how Jason Shackell could travel from Stevenage to Norwich in 90 minutes. Legally that is, while sticking to speed limits. Is it because they didn''t have to? Because we had a satelitte centre of excellence? Yes Nigel, yes I think that might be right, don''t you?[/quote]

 

Perhaps you could tell me how old those boys were when they did the travelling and how the travelling time rules changed with age groups?

 

 

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Those players were under 16 when playing for our satellite center of excellence, and when they reached 16 the travelling rules no longer apply.

The 90 minute rule has always become irrelevant when they hit 16 because they come here and move into digs with local families.

You are showing yourself up here. You just can''t bare to admit to yourself that the reason our academy has been so lacklustre is because we closed our Bristol centre of excellent out of choice.

You are getting everything wrong and your failure to produce the non-existent rules which you claim to have read governing satellite academies is well and truly noted.

You should have read the rules, Nigel.

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Nigel, I''m not sure what you are trying to get at here. Academy rules have always very clearly stated that clubs are allowed to operate one satellite academy (with a 90 min catchment area) with permission from the FA. Southampton have one in Bath which is how they recurited Gareth Bale (a Cardiff youth player) until the age of 16 - when they then moved him down to the main academy.

 

Norwich have been running one in Hatfield for a while - young Harry Toffolo is the latest youth player to be moved from this centre to the main Norwich academy at the age of 16.

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I''ve already clearly showed you official FA Rules which clearly state that satelitte academies are permitted for players under 16.

And we already know that until recently the club had a satellite in Hertfordshire. And that Southampton have one in Bath.

So what exactly is the point that you are trying to make, other than continuously showing that you know nothing about this?

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[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]Those players were under 16 when playing for our satellite center of excellence, and when they reached 16 the travelling rules no longer apply. The 90 minute rule has always become irrelevant when they hit 16 because they come here and move into digs with local families. You are showing yourself up here. You just can''t bare to admit to yourself that the reason our academy has been so lacklustre is because we closed our Bristol centre of excellent out of choice. You are getting everything wrong and your failure to produce the non-existent rules which you claim to have read governing satellite academies is well and truly noted. You should have read the rules, Nigel.[/quote]

 

Norwich closed the Bristol centre as they could only have one out of Bristol and Hatfield - I guess they took the calculated risk that Hatfield and it''s covereage of north London would produce more than Bristol. Impossible to say whether that was the right choice or not.

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Did they have Hatfied before closing Bristol? I''m finding it difficult to find any information on this (probably because Archant have the annoying habit of not keeping old posts after a few years).

I was under the impression that Hatfield was a post-Bristol thing, rather than a situation where we had two and were only allowed to keep one.

Hatfield has clearly produced a couple of decent players, Shackell and Korey Smith. The former became an important first team player, the latter will become a Championship player I''m sure.

But I''d have to question the wisdon of electing to open Hatfield, where much of the catchment area to the East and South East would cover the area that we''d already have,

Obviously it has something to do with London, but that doesn''t appear to have really worked out so far.

I suppose that the Bristol area now has Cardiff, who at the time were in the lower league and skint, but are now producing a fair number of players themselves.

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Jason Shackell progressed through 3 years of our academy before he signed professional forms in 2003 at the age of 19. Are you saying he was with the club before that?

 

 

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FFS. Korey Smith with Arsenal as a schoolboy and didn''t come to us ''til he was 16. George Francomb was with Spurs. Who are these schoolboys who were at this sattellite academy in Hatfield Beth or Sing?

 

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

FFS. Korey Smith with Arsenal as a schoolboy and didn''t come to us ''til he was 16. George Francomb was with Spurs. Who are these schoolboys who were at this sattellite academy in Hatfield Beth or Sing?

 

 

[/quote]

Smith and Lansbury both said they played there - not sure under what capacity. Harry Toffolo is definitely from there, after being at Stevenage for a little while.

 

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As far as I''m aware we are talking about the football developement centre of the University of  Hertfordshire based in Hatfield. As far as I''m aware we have had a partnership with this centre since the mid-noughties. As I understand it we could recommend players to them and they can recommend players to us. It''s not something that belongs to us unless you guys are talking about a different place?

 

 

 

 

 

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Korey Smith was signed by us at Under 16 level, when he became 16, after attending our Hatfield centre until he reached youth team age. He was discovered playing for a Sunday League team in the Hatfield area, and has never played for Arsenal.

Goodness knows why you are talking about George Francomb, because nobody else was, but for the record, here is a match programe in which Francomb clearly states in an interview: "I came through the Hatfield development centre"

You are failing to grasp the principles of this completely. Last month we signed a 16 year old player named Christian Scales on a two year development contract.

He was previously playing at the Hatfield Development Centre, which I''ve just discovered is still in operation. It retains an exclusive partnership with Norwich City. We part-fund it in conjunction with Hertfordshire University and the Hertfordshire FA, and we supply coaching and in return get first refusal on players.

His contract with Norwich City starts at 16, his development at Hatfield can start as young as 9. If they are good enough at 16, they get a contract with Norwich City.

David Stephens also came through the Hatfield Development Centre. Stephen Arnold did too. Rian Campbell also came from Hatfield.

Nigel, I am beyond dispair and reaching the point of just feeling really sorry for you here. I am gutted for you that after years and years of helping to fundraise for FONCY you have never had anybody from the academy sit down and explain how the money is spent. This goes beyond ego bruise into the "oh my god they have been keeping things from me" territory.

I''m sorry for your embarrassment.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

FFS. Korey Smith with Arsenal as a schoolboy and didn''t come to us ''til he was 16. George Francomb was with Spurs. Who are these schoolboys who were at this sattellite academy in Hatfield Beth or Sing?

[/quote]

Lansbury signed for Arsenal at the age of 9, from the Norwich academy. As he was living in Enfield at the time and he would have to been playing at Hatfield.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

As far as I''m aware we are talking about the football developement centre of the University of  Hertfordshire based in Hatfield. As far as I''m aware we have had a partnership with this centre since the mid-noughties. As I understand it we could recommend players to them and they can recommend players to us. It''s not something that belongs to us unless you guys are talking about a different place?

[/quote]

That''s the place - it counts as a satellite academy.

 

Norwich don''t have to physically go somewhere and build infrastructure etc, just have an agreement with a local facility.

 

 

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Norwich run a second night for the talented players and they get full academy standard training and they participate in a games program, often actually travelling to Norwich to play in academy games (as required by the rules stated up thread)

I hate to break it to you Nigel, but this IS a satellite. Norwich specifically run a high performance group at Hatfield for the most talented players who, just like our Norwich based youth teams, feed into our youth team at 16.

Don''t start the backtracking now, you think that we signed Francomb from Spurs and Smith from Arsenal. This is not an informal agreement Nigel, this is what a satellite is. We enroll players into their performance group and give them academy standard coaching.

The only difference between Southampton''s satelite, which they have named "Southampton Satelitte Academy", is that Southampton have had Cat 1 status for years. We have only been permitted to operate a satelite Centre of Excellence, which is what we have at Hatfield.

Will we now do a Southampton and name it the Norwich Satellite Academy? Who knows. But Southampton have a satelite Academy and we have a satelite Centre of Excellence.

Our Bristol centre of excellence was very similar in set up.

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Just to add there''s a vast difference between reading the rules and understanding them. Just as it''s very difficult to look up schoolboys football clubs from behind your monitors. I could say more but I''ll leave you two to imagine what those words might be...

 

 

 

 

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That''s it you keep digging...

 

I didn''t say we signed Korey from Arsenal I said he was with them as a schoolboy. They released him as far as I''m aware. George was released from Spurs and I believe played for Stevenage before us.

 

 

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"Here''s Korey He''s from Hatfield"

Yes, Korey is from Hatfield, he has never played for Arsenal, and he came through our Hatfield Centre of Excellence.

"Here''s George I sat with his family for the paint pot game against Gillingham and they were telling me how the then Gills manager Mark Stimson had coached George at Tottenham"

Shame they didn''t tell you that after being released by Spurs at 14 and then spent two years playing at Hatfield in our program.

"Here''s David With a bit more about how the partnership works"

Yes and for the two years before 2006, when he was under 16, he played at Hatfield.... where our partnership started in 2004.

Nigel, I think you may have forgotten whatever your point is or whatever it is that you are trying to prove. What is the point that you are trying to make, again?

Until I understand what point it is that you are trying to make, I can''t tell you whether you have successfully made it.

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Nigel, you have shown yourself up here as a stubborn old fool who just doesn''t want to lose an argument at any cost, even when you forget what the argument is. Read this entire thread from page 1 to this current page and your argument looks incredibly incoherent and indirectional. I don''t really understand what your argument is here, and I don''t think you do either.

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Nigel - we are basically talking about the same thing. Norwich have used the centre in Hatfield to be able to train players under the age of 16, which would otherwise be more than 90 mins away from Norwich. Once those players reach 16, they move to the main academy.

 

Do we not both agree on this? I would never claim to know more about individual players than yourself (apart from possibly Lansbury who I knew from my days working at Arsenal). Singup has an almost City 1st level of patronisation about him - but on the whole you are both agreeing.

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The point is what it always was. That we were seriously disadvantaged by the FA schoolboy travelling rules that you fail to understand. And despite your protests to the contrary your ridiculous comparison with ipswich showed quite clearly that you didn''t.  The point you NOW appear to be making is that the partnership with the UoH developement centre made it possible to pick up other club''s cast offs. No sh*t Sherlock...

 

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

Nigel - we are basically talking about the same thing. Norwich have used the centre in Hatfield to be able to train players under the age of 16, which would otherwise be more than 90 mins away from Norwich. Once those players reach 16, they move to the main academy.

 

Do we not both agree on this? I would never claim to know more about individual players than yourself (apart from possibly Lansbury who I knew from my days working at Arsenal). Singup has an almost City 1st level of patronisation about him - but on the whole you are both agreeing.

[/quote]

No I don''t agree. Before the FA travelling rules, well intentioned rules that were abused by the big clubs, we were in a much better position to get the players before the other clubs. Cat one academy will redress the balance a little.

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"That we were seriously disadvantaged"

Disadvantaged relative to who? And for what age groups? Before the 90 minute rule, how would have proposed that we''d have signed a 10 year old Craig Bellamy without our Bristol Centre of Excellent? The one that you claim is not permitted under the current rules, despite us operating a very similar setup at Hatfield.

"the FA schoolboy travelling rules that you fail to understand"

I think that anybody reading this thread from page 1 to this current page would conclude that it is YOU that failed to understand the rules about satellite centers of excellence and how they are used to negate the travelling rules.

"your ridiculous comparison with ipswich showed quite clearly that you didn''t"

My completely ridiculous comparison with Ipswich which showed that pretty much every kid to come through their academy having been signed under the age of 16 would have been legal for Norwich to sign by virtue of them being within a 90 minute drive of Norwich? And the completely ridiculous comparison with Ipswich which showed that some of their players were signed at 16 from elsewhere in the country, something that we have never been unable to do ourselves?

"The point you NOW appear to be making is that the partnership with the UoH developement centre made it possible to pick up other club''s cast offs"

The development centre that you appeared not to even know existed before taking it upon yourself to have a Google, the one that is the exactly the same format as the one we had in Bristol which allowed us to bring through Bellamy, Eadie, Cureton, Llewellyn, and Shore? My point has consistently been that closing the Bristol centre of excellence was a major cause of our decade or more of poor academy performance, more so than the 90 minute rule, and I''ve stuck to that argument throughout. It is your argument which is inconsistent Nigel.

My is still the same: The 90 minute rule is used as an excuse for mediocrity while we miss out on dozens of talented players within our ninety minute catchment area and the biggest cause of our poor academy performance has been the closure of our Bristol centre of excellence.

That has been my point throughout, you haven''t been able to successfully argue against that in five pages of posts, and I don''t expect you to be able to in another five.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

Nigel - we are basically talking about the same thing. Norwich have used the centre in Hatfield to be able to train players under the age of 16, which would otherwise be more than 90 mins away from Norwich. Once those players reach 16, they move to the main academy.

 

Do we not both agree on this? I would never claim to know more about individual players than yourself (apart from possibly Lansbury who I knew from my days working at Arsenal). Singup has an almost City 1st level of patronisation about him - but on the whole you are both agreeing.

[/quote]

No I don''t agree. Before the FA travelling rules, well intentioned rules that were abused by the big clubs, we were in a much better position to get the players before the other clubs. Cat one academy will redress the balance a little.

[/quote]

No doubt about that - I''m talking about the setup previous to Cat 1, were Norwich had to use a centre in Hatfield to allow the training of young players from beyond the 90 min catchment area radiating from Colney.

 

Now, with Category 1 status there is no such need for this partnership as players under 16 can be directly trained at Colney (a better deal for player and club).

 

 

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I woul;d suggest you look at previous threads on this board, some with the same posters, before you decide who knows what. But still, perhaps you could tell me from what areas we could recommend boys to the developement centre in Hatfield and from what areas we could recommend boys to the developement centre in Bristol?

 

 

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The story behind the cuts at that time is quite ironic considering where the credit is often given on here for the players who came through...

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"I would suggest you look at previous threads on this board, some with the same posters, before you decide who knows what"

I don''t care about the other posts on this board, I care only for this thread.

"But still, perhaps you could tell me from what areas we could recommend boys to the developement centre in Hatfield and from what areas we could recommend boys to the developement centre in Bristol?"

A better question would be what clubs would we be competing against within a 90 minute radius of Bristol and what clubs would we be competing against within a 90 mile radius of Hatfield. You amaze me Nigel you really do, because ten minutes ago you were dismissing Hatfield as a place where we could sign other players cast-offs (that didn''t sound too supportive of Korey Smith and George Francomb mind), next minute you are suggesting that Hatfield is a better location than Bristol for some reason?

Darren Eadie''s local youth teams would have been Swindon, Bristol Rovers, Bristol City, or the Norwich Centre of Excellence.

Craig Bellamy''s local youth teams would have been Cardiff, Bristol City, and Bristol Rovers, or the Norwich Centre of Excellence.

Gareth Bale''s local youth teams would have been Cardiff, Bristol City, Bristol Rovers, or the Southampton Centre of Excellence.

A talented kid from London''s local youth teams would be Tottenham, Arsenal, Chelsea, AFC Wimbledon, Barnet, Brentford, Charlton, Crystal Palace, Fulham, Millwall, Leyton Orient, QPR, West Ham, and a whole plethora of clubs within 90 minutes of London.

Maybe Gareth Bale would have become a Norwich player if we were still in Bristol.

Norwich fans always go on about catchment area. I''m not going to do any complex calculations, but the built up London area has a population of 8 million. There are 13 professional clubs competing for the best local players.

Norfolk has a population of 859000 and one professional club. That''s 615,384 people per club in London, 859000 people per club in Norfolk.

Now tell me Nigel, what exactly is wrong with our catchment area? If we can pull Eadie''s and Bellamy''s out of Bristol with three or four clubs competing for local talent, then why the hell can''t we pull the Connor Wickhams out of Colchester down the road or the Matthew Upson''s from Ely, or the Darren Bent''s from Huntingdon.

And why, with a population of 859000 people in Norfolk, is Tom Adeyemi the first Norfolk raised successful Norwich City academy product since Chris Sutton? If we are unlucky in any sense it is possibly that people from Norfolk are just crap at football, the catchment area excuse is just that.... an excuse.

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