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Warren Hill

Where we are at....my take....

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In recent weeks a real whirlwind of discontent has been audible in the streets, bars and possibly most vociferously in the Cyberspace of Norfolk.

 

The optimism that flooded into Norfolk like a North Sea surge in the midst of that ten game unbeaten run has quickly drained away, leaving many calling into question the Manager’s ability and also the systems he employs and the style that we play.

 

Whether this criticism is founded or fair is debatable. We are certainly more resolute this season; we are harder to break down and subsequently harder to beat and although detractors point out the fact that we have taken a few thumpings, I can’t see how anyone can suggest that the recruitment of Messrs Bassong, Turner, Whittaker and Garrido have done anything but strengthen us defensively.

 

Indeed Sebastien Bassong has been nothing short of a revelation, looking every part the international Centre Half that he is. I’ve been fortunate to see some decent central defenders wear the canary yellow and I would definitely put him in the upper echelons with the likes of Linighan, Bruce and Watson.

 

This defensive strengthening, he has signed two goalkeepers and Alexander Tettey too, makes me wonder about what he inherited from the Messiah.

 

Our big signings in January last year were Ryan Bennett and Jonny Howson. It was alleged that we broke our transfer record to sign Bennett and, if we’re honest, he’s done little to justify that tag so far, though he is young. Howson, despite flashes of ability has been a major disappointment. The word in the eye of the whirlwind is that we are playing him out of position, not playing to his strengths, well I’m struggling to work out where his best position is. The only thing I’m sure of is that it definitely isn’t in the starting XI. David Fox is another used sparingly this season and at various times there have been people clamouring for him to come into the side, put his foot on the ball, dictate play – each time he has been given an opportunity, he has failed.

 

I suppose the point that I’m making is that I think we have a competitive first XI but the squad inherited by Hughton was sparse on quality.

 

He inherited two young inexperienced goalkeepers, Marc Tierney as our only established Left Back, a fistful of midfielders and a Forward roster that read Holt, Morison, Jackson, Martin. Criticism has been levelled that we didn’t improve that forward line earlier and that Harry Kane was a panic signing. Maybe that is fair, with Morison being woefully out of form, we were short of options, a fact not helped by Harry Kane getting injured – he will always be a “we’ll never know” signing but ultimately I suppose he’ll be regarded as a flop.

 

What does seem clear is that Hughton quickly identified that it was defensively that we were seriously lacking. It’s also clear that he has made good signings. Bassong, Turner and Garrido are all better than what we had and Whittaker has done well enough to keep Russell Martin very much on his toes too.

 

As I mentioned previously, I think Hughton knows our first choice team is difficult to beat. However, I think a lot of the criticism levelled at him comes about because of the personnel of that XI. It’s certain that Grant Holt has sacrificed himself at times for the good of the team, it’s also fair to say that some of his goal threat has been nullified by playing up front alone. The thing is that Norwich play their best when Holt and Hoolahan are on the pitch. To facilitate that we have to shore up the midfield, that means sacrificing the second striker and playing the two holding players. Luckily those two are Johnson and Tettey who have both been a huge part of what we’ve done well this season. It’s no coincidence that the formation that Hughton has settled upon incorporates Wes Hoolahan. Paul Lambert did the same thing when he played the diamond in the beginning. Both managers have developed systems to allow them to play their most influential player.

 

This may well change though; maybe not the formation, but the identity of our most influential player. Robert Snodgrass has been sensational. I just hope we can keep hold of him.

 

 

With regard to the discontent, I think that the problem lies in what the fans see as excitement. Like it or not, the fans have been spoiled at Carrow Road for the last three and a half seasons. Following our brief sojourn with what Crack Addicts call “rock bottom” and that rude awakening at the hands of Colchester, we have been treated to a period of continual success that just doesn’t fit with being a Norwich fan. From hammering teams so regularly in League One that the crowd was often stifled by a cocky stench of expectation, the sustained promotion push of our Championship season, culminating with the fans running around the Fratton Park pitch, Russell Martin in his pants and a certain blonde fan losing her mobile phone. To the first season back in the Premiership, where every point was greeted and welcomed onto the board, where the race to the line of safety was enthralling and exciting. Securing our status was the only target, securing the financial future and thereby the footballing future of our club.

 

And so on to season 2 of life in the Premiership. What now the expectation? Well, for the board, they made it clear that it was once again all about survival; taking the club to a debt free position, a position of relative strength in the modern game, a position that we can solidly build from.

 

Chris Hughton has achieved that, he achieved it by setting us up not to lose, making us difficult to beat. He has achieved that by taking notable scalps, Man U, Arsenal, Everton, Spurs in the cup, Swansea away.

 

Hughton has us in a league position that is 8 points ahead of the bottom 3 with 10 to play and spitting distance from tenth place. That would make us one of the ten best clubs in England, I think that would be some achievement.

 

If people honestly think that we should be doing better than that or even better than where we are, then I’m afraid that leaves me flabbergasted.

 

We’ve stayed within our means, we’ve paid our debts, Norwich City Football Club can hold its head high in the community. There are plenty that can’t do that, some not a million miles away.

 

As we prepare for Premiership Season 3 with a clean slate, a secure future and money to spend. Take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Don’t compare apples with pears, look where we are given our budget and see if we are under or over performing. And with that dose of realism, look forward to next season, laugh/cry at the players we are linked with in the summer but ultimately look at where we are, remember how we got there and back the guy that’s kept us there.

 

 

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Very good and thoughtful post Warren - and one I agree with 100%.

The 2nd season in the Prem is often the downfall for many clubs, and I think with the resources we have the team is spot on - of course we all want to be splashing out on exciting new talent, but we have to be real and consolidate, and I think that''s exactly what we are doing.

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A very good post and hopefully the people that are fed up give it a proper read.

Fair enough we can get the hump with the way we are playing,when we lose etc.but this is the most realistic viewpoint that a lot of us share. Just glad you''ve wrote it and well.

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An excellent post and one the type of post that is needed on here every now and then. All I would add, is that the challenge of these next 10 matches must not be under estimated as they will define our season and short to medium term future.....which really does look very exciting as the club comes out of debt and hopefully becomes one of the recipients of that extra Premier League cash, a large part of which will be put in thehands of CH probably one of the best Managers we have had at the club for spending money wisely...should be very interesting OTBC     

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"As we prepare for Premiership Season 3 with a clean slate""And so on to season 2 of life in

the Premiership. What now the expectation? Well, for the board, they

made it clear that it was once again all about survival; taking the club

to a debt free position, a position of relative strength in the modern

game, a position that we can solidly build from.  
Chris Hughton has achieved that"

While I agree with most of the op, it does seem a tad early to be talking in terms of season three when we are not yet safe this season.   We can still go down the table if we have another bad run.  Two bad results, with the teams below picking up a point or two would suddenly make us seem a lot closer giving us a squeeky bum end to the season.     The opposite is true too, we could pick up points and carry on into mid table safety, but the season isn''t over yet.    I would prefer to wait a few more games before thinking that the season is safe and we can move on to season three.  Thinking the job is done is a little premature imo.

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[quote user="Ha ya got a loight boy"]"As we prepare for Premiership Season 3 with a clean slate""And so on to season 2 of life in

the Premiership. What now the expectation? Well, for the board, they

made it clear that it was once again all about survival; taking the club

to a debt free position, a position of relative strength in the modern

game, a position that we can solidly build from.  
Chris Hughton has achieved that"

While I agree with most of the op, it does seem a tad early to be talking in terms of season three when we are not yet safe this season.   We can still go down the table if we have another bad run.  Two bad results, with the teams below picking up a point or two would suddenly make us seem a lot closer giving us a squeeky bum end to the season.     The opposite is true too, we could pick up points and carry on into mid table safety, but the season isn''t over yet.    I would prefer to wait a few more games before thinking that the season is safe and we can move on to season three.  Thinking the job is done is a little premature imo.

[/quote]The bottom 3 will  not get more than 36 points (and you can quote me on that!) this season.. it''ll take an epic collapse on our part and a fantastic turnaround in form for the bottom 3 for us to go down.Chill out guys [Y]

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Really liked (and agreed with) that OP. This post has been on here for over 12 hours, and not one dissenting voice yet!

Why is that I wonder....................

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Well Warren, it is rare that I read such a comprehensive post and agree with every word. Your conclusion is spot on, the only risk with such a good post as this is that it will make this board very quite, cos there''s not mush else to say. I await with interest the views of those who disagree with what you have said.

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Indeed it''s an excellent post Thef. Too good to drop down the board like a stone. But for a thread to stay active for long it needs to play to the masses. One simple line stating an opinion that "Delia is blocking would be investors because she doesn''t want anyone else to play with her dolls house" would stay near the top of the board much longer. Perhaps Archant would like to publish a "Warren Column". But even that would quickly become yesterdays news. But I suspect people would look forward to the next one.

 

As for the would be dissenters? Well I suspect they''re not halfway through reading it yet...

 

 

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[quote user="thefutureisyellow"]Well Warren, it is rare that I read such a comprehensive post and agree with every word. Your conclusion is spot on, the only risk with such a good post as this is that it will make this board very quite, cos there''s not mush else to say. I await with interest the views of those who disagree with what you have said.[/quote]

Your''ll get no argument from me,

What can we talk about now? 

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Great post, but as has been said, the morons won`t even read it. I`m sure i`m far from the only one who has thought about penning a similar long post looking at the bigger picture but concluded "what`s the bloody point?"! So thanks for saving me the trouble.

Moans about style of play: the fact is, it`s our solidity which has kept us ahead of more expansive but flakier teams like Southampton and Reading, and we`ve enjoyed brilliant wins over some of the biggest clubs in the world- not to mention an all-too-rare cup run.

The worrying thing is that if enough of this cretins turn up to Southampton,Reading and Villa with the attitude that we should be 2-0 up by half-time, the tide of negativity could drag us back down into trouble.

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"The worrying thing is that if enough of this cretins turn up to Southampton,Reading and Villa with the attitude that we should be 2-0 up by half-time, the tide of negativity could drag us back down into trouble."

That would make a change as they would have to buy a ticket first. Most of the moaners don''t actually go to the games, they will be found logged on to this forum on a Saturday afternoon.

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Warren Hill is right. We have made enormous strides on a shoestring budget. The result is probably the best squad we have had for some years, and assembled very cheaply. It may even be better than our previous best, which played in a Premiership when there were relatively few expensive foreign players in other teams.

 

The temptation is to want to run (with the big boys) before we can walk. If we wish to challenge them we have to import a few outstanding foreign players, but we have not been in position to do this previously. Some of the lesser but "permanent" premiership teams, like Stoke, Wigan, Villa, West Ham, accumlated the ability to sign expensive players from years of Sky money. (Some, like Blackburn and Bolton, failed so accumulation is not a complete answer - you need support and good management as well.)

 

There is no guarantee in the policy we are following, - fickle fortune can intervene, but it has been successful hitherto. We have to hope that with the staff we have, the academy status and the nucleus of players already with us, the development of the club will continue. The other factor which is vital is the level of support - not only the enthusiasts who travel to away games and the greater number who go to CR, but also the growing number internationally - Sirerra Leone, etc, who are helping to establish the brand.

 

The next few weeks may be crucial for continued success, so our support is all the more vital.

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My congratulations as well on your excellent post, Warren. I also think that City can be confident of survival now (I can''t see any of the bottom 4 teams getting more than 33-34 points). CH is in his first year of building a squad that will stay in the PL for years to come. He''s brought in 11 players who have improved the squad already and will now be in a position to continue that next year with 4-5 quality players now that the debt is gone (I was amazed to see that Liverpool have a debt of £85m). Patience is the key and the future will be bright!

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A lot of good points.  Looking at our CBs from last year, I am not convinced any of them are currently good enough for the Prem - Bennett and Ayala are young and might be able to make it in the future, but not now.  Ward and Whitbread have found their level in the Champ I think.

 

Lambert was able to produce a style of play last year that was very attacking and so it didn''t matter that we''d normally concede at least 1 goal.  On attack we were so incisive, we were able to score enough goals to overcome our defensive weakness, often on the break. 

 

Could that same formula have been as effective for a second season ?  My guess is that it wouldn''t and this is part of the reason Lambert decided to jump ship while the going was good.  Whereas Hughton''s approach has made us much more solid, by and large and in games when the new players he''s brought in have been available (Bassong and Tettey being key in my opinion, although BJ has also stepped up).

 

So overall I am satisfied with where we are, as we enter the final straight for the season.   The league table now has a break between Fulham just above us in 10th spot on 33 points, and WBA on 40 points in 9th.  With some good results from the next few games, we can both assure our safety and see if we can close the gap on 9th spot.

 

 

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Puts into words, and very well constructed too, what the vast majority of sensible fans are thinking.Might get one or two dissidents who will still bang on about the lack of entertainment value, but they can safely be ignored this season - it''s all about survival.

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[quote user="Warren Hill"]

 

 

 

 

 

If people honestly think that we should be doing better than that or even better than where we are, then I’m afraid that leaves me flabbergasted.

 

We’ve stayed within our means, we’ve paid our debts, Norwich City Football Club can hold its head high in the community. There are plenty that can’t do that, some not a million miles away.

 

As we prepare for Premiership Season 3 with a clean slate, a secure future and money to spend. Take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Don’t compare apples with pears, look where we are given our budget and see if we are under or over performing. And with that dose of realism, look forward to next season, laugh/cry at the players we are linked with in the summer but ultimately look at where we are, remember how we got there and back the guy that’s kept us there.

 

 

[/quote]

 

Good try, lake district canary, but you''ll have to disguise your optimism a bit better than this if you want to fool posters![:D]

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Great post and I''m glad I took time to read it thoroughly just now. I agree with some posters that mentioned that season three is not a foregone conclusion yet, let''s make it safe first! I am confident we can and will though... A third season will really really be a stepping stone to full consolidation.

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"To the first season back in the Premiership, where every point was greeted and welcomed onto the board, where the race to the line of safety was enthralling and exciting. Securing our status was the only target"

 

Would have to disagree there Warren. It fits well with the prose but not the realilty of last season. At no point do I remember the team setting out for a draw to guarantee a point as opposed to playing to win and gain three points. The club and thus the teams attitude was to achieve as many points as possible, with ''safety'' being a consequence of that, not the sole cause of that policy. A policy that under a different manager has been carried on (Everton) albeit in slightly less cavalier approach.

 

If you wish to avoid relegation then all you have to do is finish in 17th place. However that would be a rather foolish policy which would smack of lunacy were it ever to be thought of, never mind implemented. All clubs will set out with a policy of trying to achieve as many points as possible, even those who may feel that they maybe struggling near the bottom of the table. That''s how it is.

 

If securing our status was our only target then why the continuing chase for points after we had secured our status. Why risk the possible injuries ? Why not simply give younger players a run out instead ? The fact is we were never in any real danger or relegation. From the 5th week onwards we mever dropped below 13th place. So why the battle to gain a point away to Arsenal or the win at home to Aston Villa ? Because it is about winning. Something every club and team set out to do. The only variation is in their abilities and application thats all. Watch this season and see what happens when it is no longer mathematically possible for us to be relegated and see if there is any noticable change in the teams attititude and approach to the game.

 

Of course I share the sentiments in Warrens original post, as I''m sure most genuine City supporters do. And I also recognise the purpose of the many anti club doomongers who infect this site, under various guises and claims, but I that doesn''t mean that well reasoned arguments as in the former should not have a counter view to some (or one) of the points.

 

Otherwise a refreshing change and worthy read on a site that is all to often cluttered up with nasty and ill founded nonsense that does little more than constantly attack the club.

 

 

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Like most I agree 100 % with the op. I suspect however that Hughton will consider Saturdays game as a must not lose game rather than go straight out for a win. Therefore I also suspect that on Saturday following a boring 0 - 0 or a 1 - 0 the usual suspects will be tearing your thread to peices, but hey just dont listen.

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Surely securing our premiership status was the primary target. Any extra placing was a hard fought bonus.

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these people would criticise Michelangelos Mona Lisa painting if they saw it when it was only half finished. you have to accept that a small portion of intellectually challenged morons will always react this way.

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[quote user="star_manic"]these people would criticise Michelangelos Mona Lisa painting if they saw it when it was only half finished. you have to accept that a small portion of intellectually challenged morons will always react this way.[/quote]

Mona Lis was painted by Leonardo da Vinci

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