Jonny Howson

[nutty nigel 7,509]

There''s some good posts here with realism and not blinded by unrealistic expectations. I think judgements on yesterdays game and individual performances have to start from an appreciation of where our opponents are at. The belief from the last home game that we should be beating the likes of Fulham was unrealistic. But Everton is another big step up from Fulham. A side with only 4 defeats and CL contenders. In Fellani they have one of the best players in the prem and their left side is probably the most dangerous in the prem. We coped with it. Yes for long periods they were the better side but but during those times we kept them down to one goal. Fellani brushed Howson aside sometimes but so he should. But our right side was more than a match for their left and Snodgrass proved once again that he is quite capable of being outstanding even at this level. Our victory was hjust as much about us defending as a team for the first hour as it was about attacking as a team at the death.

 

 

[KeelansGlove 0]

Sorry I cannot Agree. Generally Howson had a very poor game yesterday I cannot see what he offers the team in either in defence or Attack. For me id have Tettey Fox Whitaker or Surman before Howson.

[ricardo 7,345]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

There''s some good posts here with realism and not blinded by unrealistic expectations. I think judgements on yesterdays game and individual performances have to start from an appreciation of where our opponents are at. The belief from the last home game that we should be beating the likes of Fulham was unrealistic. But Everton is another big step up from Fulham. A side with only 4 defeats and CL contenders. In Fellani they have one of the best players in the prem and their left side is probably the most dangerous in the prem. We coped with it. Yes for long periods they were the better side but but during those times we kept them down to one goal. Fellani brushed Howson aside sometimes but so he should. But our right side was more than a match for their left and Snodgrass proved once again that he is quite capable of being outstanding even at this level. Our victory was hjust as much about us defending as a team for the first hour as it was about attacking as a team at the death.

 

 

[/quote]Unrealistic expectations are part of football but as you say Nigel, they seem to abound on this forum. A couple of weeks ago they were out in force claiming that we were in a relegation fight. This has never been the case. Anybody with half a brain should have been able to look at the table after a dozen or so games a come up with a 90% prediction of how things are likely to pan out. At the end of November I told everybody that we would be o.k. and that the 3 relegated sides would come from the then bottom 5. They were QPR, Reading, Southampton, Wigan and Villa. Here we are 15 games on and nothing much has changed, it''s still going to be three from that five.Then we had the ten game unbeaten run and out they came again blagging on about how we would be going for a Champions League place. It was always totally unrealistic and I said so at the time. The trouble is that people don''t seem to realise that a good or bad run is just as much attributable to the fixture list as it is to form. Looking at form tables over 6 games tells you bugger all. I always split the season into 3 parts, the first dozen games and then 2, 13 game sections. You can see much more clearly the true position of a team when you do that.Getting back to Howson, I said I thought he did quite well yesterday. He was a bit rusty but it was still a creditable performance and that''s why I mentioned him in my match report.On another point, I agree that Everton were a much better side than Fulham Having said that, bogey sides always upset the form applecart and Fulham in recent times have always had the Indian sign over us. Everton by contrast rarely do well at CR and that''s why I had greater confidence in getting something yesterday that I did against Fulham.Football is a funny old game as Greavsey used to say. If you could predict a result by logic the bookies would soon be out of business.

[Jersey Canary 143]

[quote user="Nexus_Canary"]Actually a tad unfair to say Wes was bad today, he was out of position.[/quote]

Wes had a shocker. Regardless of what position you play it does not excuse the inability to pass to a player in a yellow shirt.

[a1canary 0]

[quote user="Jersey Canary"][quote user="Nexus_Canary"]Actually a tad unfair to say Wes was bad today, he was out of position.
[/quote] Wes had a shocker. Regardless of what position you play it does not excuse the inability to pass to a player in a yellow shirt.[/quote]

The flip side of that is, why wouldn''t you put a player in the position where they excel most. For Hools, that''s behind the striker in a 4-5-1 or at the tip of a diamond.

It isn''t on the wing. As i''ve said on another thread, we have options now that involve very different set ups with different personnel. Wes works well in one, less so in the other. There''s no point continually putting him in a position where he doesn''t function and then just shouting when he doesn''t play well.

[Salopian 1]

I thought that Howson was very good.  He is very quick, in fact I seem to remember that a few months ago he was the quickest over 20 yards in the club. I was reminded of that when late in the match an Everton player broke quickly towards our right bye line, and Howson caught him up and blocked his attempted cross.

He comes close to rivalling Johnson in the yards covered during a game, and he has a better shot, although I concede that he will have to mix it a little more when he tackles. Even so, he has no fear. I think that he has better passing than either Johno or Tettey.

 

I suspect that for Old Trafford Tettey may return, if he has recovered, but if not then Howson would be a very good substitute, despite the fact that he is playing out of his best position.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

I think Howson will keep his place on Saturday. But I''m interested to know what his best position is?

 

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="Salopian"]

....., although I concede that he will have to mix it a little more when he tackles.

[/quote]

Glad to see somebody else has noticed this.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I think Howson will keep his place on Saturday. But I''m interested to know what his best position is?

[/quote]

Yes I think he will play too.  Also I would like to see him nip into the United penalty area and score a goal! 

[KeelansGlove 0]

I am begining to think ive fallen into a parallel universe where up is down. Johnson was immense on saturday and much as it pains me to say it Howson was less than ordinary. Tettey certainly would not have let Fellani have the freedom of Carrow Rd. Nothing in defense nothing in attack, Howsons contribution. I for one hope he isnt playing Saturday.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

KeelansGlove,

I think Howson will play on Saturday because I think Tettey will be kept back for the Southampton game.

 

[hogesar 9,618]

[quote user="KeelansGlove"]I am begining to think ive fallen into a parallel universe where up is down. Johnson was immense on saturday and much as it pains me to say it Howson was less than ordinary. Tettey certainly would not have let Fellani have the freedom of Carrow Rd. Nothing in defense nothing in attack, Howsons contribution. I for one hope he isnt playing Saturday.[/quote]Johnson was very good, agreed.Don''t try and compare Tettey and Howson as you''ll only ever come up with whatever answer you''ve already decided upon, they''re completely different players. Tettey will bomb around with pace trying to win the ball back, then giving it away attempting a 5 yard pass.Howson will collect the ball of our CB''s, and play the ball about, keep possession and when defending mark a player like Fellaini as tightly as possible and try to keep him quiet near our 18 yard box (which the amount of shots stats will confirm). Kind of like a Fox role, might be why i took so well to him on Saturday! [:D].Howson''s always been regarded as a CAM but i don''t think that was his role on Saturday and that''s the most comfortable i''ve seen him all season.

[Six Pack 91]

[quote user="Jersey Canary"][quote user="Nexus_Canary"]Actually a tad unfair to say Wes was bad today, he was out of position.[/quote]

Wes had a shocker. Regardless of what position you play it does not excuse the inability to pass to a player in a yellow shirt.[/quote]

 

Disagree here - not sure what you were looking at ! Hoohalan got knocked off the ball a couple of times and besides his first cross  -  his passing was generally pretty good. The second time he received the ball in an attacking area, he made a slide rule pass through a packed Everton defence to Snodgrass who had a shot. Generally tidy and setup KK for a header - no way anyone could miss those unless you were there purely waiting for our players to make mistakes so you can have a go. Hate to see you when we lose !  

[Highland Canary 76]

I think Howson will play with Pilkington in for Becchio and 4-5-1.

[a1canary 0]

That''s the Swansea set up then Highland. Which saw us play a flat 4 with Bj and Howson central and Wes just off Holt. I can''t see how Wes and Howson can fit in the 5 man midfield we''ve used to date.

Even when they did both play in the slightly altered formation at Swansea, Wes was pretty anonymous. I think it puts him a bit too high up the pitch to do much damage. I''d rather we just went with a traditional 2 up or the usual personnel that we''ve used for 451.

[Not Nigel 0]

I think we should just go for 4-4-2, we went to Old Trafford last season and had the chances to win. If Pilkington''s one on one had gone in we''d have got something out of that game.

We are expected to lose anyway, probably will lose, may as well go there and attack it. Who cares if we play attacking football and end up losing 5-0, it will get us the same number of points as losing 1-0 and after winning on Saturday and with a good six or seven winnable games left we can afford to lose one.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]Who cares if we play attacking football and end up losing 5-0, it will get us the same number of points as losing 1-0 [/quote]If we keep the score to 1-0 we always have the chance to snatch something from the game but by going gung-ho from the start could mean the game is out of reach early on.

[Not Nigel 0]

And if we take the lead and go 1-0 up we would have plenty of time for getting eleven men behind the ball attempting to cling on to it.

Man Utd have played 13 at home this season and won 12.

The only team to beat them, Spurs, went in at half time 2-0 up. The game finished 3-2.

No team who has conceded the first goal at Man Utd has come away with a point. We might as well try and fluke an early goal.

[Lavanche 0]

Not to mention we are only 4 goals away from West Ham and Newcastle and 3 goals from Southampton also 4 goals front of Wigan and Reading.

Goal difference can be bitch at the last day of season as every place we drop down because of it means 800 000 pounds losses for the club.

[Indy 3,283]

Can anyone see Hughton going gung-ho?

 

Seriously, even with winnable games after Man U, we don''t want to be beaten 5-0.

 

I would go 4-4-2 only because I think in recent form Wes could do with some time on the bench and with two strikers uptop we have outlet options.

 

I would start with Holt & Kamara, if Kamara runs out of steam, then Becchio to come on.

 

Howson has to keep his spot after last weeks performance, I would start with the team that finished the Everton game.

[Lavanche 0]

So Indy in your opinion we should start with wide diamond?

Some of you seem to forget who we are playing against and how we did beat them earlier this season.

They wont have Van Persie so after him most of their goals come from Rooney who normaly plays against our middlefield.

So if Tettey is fit it is quite important to have him and Johnson both on the pitch. If we can block middle road we will have quite good chance at least for draw.

Also Howson was not any better than Hoolahan was, but he can be tried in his more comfortable attacking role. He had quite many ball losses more than Hoolahan did and that is quite bad for deep central role and at least I wouldnt want that to happen against league leader that are quite more clinical than Everton.

[Indy 3,283]

Yep I would start with Howson moving box to box and Johnson sitting holding role. Reason being that we don''t want to invite perssure on as the more defnsive we go the more chances and goals we will concede.

 

My thinking is that team who do well at Old Trafford try to give them a game, with Holt and Kamara any ball out is likely to be held up and Howson is the link to the midfiled and to Pilks / Snodders.

 

But I''m not Hughton, I''m just a suporter and have a thought that this might work.....but then again it might not, only Hughton will know how we line up.

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

I think CH will start with a 4-2-3-1 and I agree with that. I think the best chance of scoring will come from the flanks rather than up the center, but not so much with crosses as with attacking runs which both Snods and Pilks can do very well. They''re both good at tracking back as well and I hope that can frustrate their wide players. If the game can be kept tight, there is the tantalising prospect of KK coming on for the final half hour with Becchio coming on for Holt if necessary.

[Monty13 2,229]

"Wes had a shocker. Regardless of what position you play it does not excuse the inability to pass to a player in a yellow shirt."

I saw a stat post the game Sat saying Wes had made 9 passes, 8 completed, but don''t let the facts stand in your way.

The more telling thing was that he only had 9 passes to make compared to the amount he usually has the ball. The majority of our play tends to go down the right with Snodgrass and Wes wasn''t getting a look in.

In the second half Wes started popping up in the centre and at one point with Snodgrass on the right hand side, when our play was in that area, and he saw more of the ball, ironically just before he came off. One of the commentators commented that he couldn''t understand why Wes was coming off when he was just getting himself into the game, but you can''t argue the change didn''t work.

In the first half he was hugging the left touchline and was pretty much ignored, but he did his job defensively and put a good shift in, saying he had a shocker is pretty unfounded and harsh imo.

[can u sit down please 0]

I Nader if some peoples opinions of Howson have changed?

A vital part of our team, IMO should be captain next year.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

There''s some good posts here with realism and not blinded by unrealistic expectations. I think judgements on yesterdays game and individual performances have to start from an appreciation of where our opponents are at. The belief from the last home game that we should be beating the likes of Fulham was unrealistic. But Everton is another big step up from Fulham. A side with only 4 defeats and CL contenders. In Fellani they have one of the best players in the prem and their left side is probably the most dangerous in the prem. We coped with it. Yes for long periods they were the better side but but during those times we kept them down to one goal. Fellani brushed Howson aside sometimes but so he should. But our right side was more than a match for their left and Snodgrass proved once again that he is quite capable of being outstanding even at this level. Our victory was hjust as much about us defending as a team for the first hour as it was about attacking as a team at the death.

 

 

[/quote]

 

Haven''t changed my view CUSDP.

 

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="can u sit down please"]I Nader if some peoples opinions of Howson have changed?

A vital part of our team, IMO should be captain next year.[/quote]My opinion hasn''t changed... decent player going forward, rubbish when held back.  Lacks creativity, passing adequate if not inspired. At his best when driving forward with the ball and has an excellent shot on him.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="KeelansGlove"]  I cannot see what he offers the team in either in defence or Attack.

For me id have Tettey Fox Whitaker or Surman before Howson.[/quote]

Do you see it yet?

 

Or would you stand by that awful assessment?