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grefstad

Hughtons defensive nature - its too much

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Hughtons ''defensive nature'' got us a point today at a club who have just spent almost £20M plus last month. Be happy. Had we kept going at them, it would of been hell or high water.

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BW, the £20M spent by QPR has made no difference to how ordinary they looked today. We a little less fear and respect from City the game would have been over by half time.

They stood off us throughout the first half and yet City were unable to capitalise.

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[quote user="grefstad"]Getting tired of his constant 4-5-1 / 4-4-1-1 system. He is signaling it is more important not to loose than to win. The late entry of Becchio today, just another example. Holt was awful, again, as I have been messing about the entire authumn. When Kamara arrives, Holt is due a lengthy stay on the bench, me thinks I dont think we are able to defend our way to Premier safety, so Hughton need to signal some more offensive intent. I know his main task is imperative, to keep us in the Prem, but still..we wont be able to attract many good players in the summer with such a dull playstyle[/quote]

 

Did you miss his goal line clearence?...........its obvious you did!

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I''m a fan of the defensive nature I must admit (strange to some I know) so I do enjoy the fact we are more resolute these days.

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I don''t quite understand.

Someone correct my illusions on this one. But the Spurs game the side were more up and at ''em. There was movement, there was slick passing. There was belief.

Where the hell was that today? And why should that only occur at home? And that was against Spurs, not a team rooted to the foot of the table.

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[quote user="Ches right hand man "]You all slate the OP but he is correct, this will not work in the long run. We may not get relegated this season, but if we play in the same manner next season we may or I can correct most likely will.[/quote]

The "long run" can wait this season. Survival in this season is ALL that matters. Do that and the ''long run'' will be greatly aided by a £70m payday.

I absolutely think we can defend our way to survival. It has got us to where we are today , got us some great results and we would have taken this position at this stage if offered it. The only issue at the moment is a poor run of form but one which we appear to be emerging from. Albeit slowly.

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[quote user="Che right hand man "]Defending better and getting less points aint a improvement.[/quote]We''re 7 points above the drop... The way you''re going on you''d think we were 7 points adrift at the bottom!Go and support Villa... attack minded Lambert is doing well there!

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Che right hand man Defending better and getting less points aint a improvement.

We''re 7 points above the drop... The way you''re going on you''d think we were 7 points adrift at the bottom!Go and support Villa... attack minded Lambert is doing well there!

Am I correct we were better off last season? If so then I see no improvement.

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When we defend properly we pick up points as we have shown countless times. Concentrate on supporting the team and getting them over the line, then u can whine all you want.

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[quote user="a1canary"]When we defend properly we pick up points as we have shown countless times. Concentrate on supporting the team and getting them over the line, then u can whine all you want.[/quote]Well said.7 poins clear with 13 games to go... Why are some people so bloody negative?!

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In my mind Hughton''s approach seems fairly logical.

We''re a work-in-progress - the manager has come in and identified that our previous "gung-ho" style, whilst remarkably entertaining and incredibly effective for us over the previous 3 seasons, would eventually be found out at this level. You only have to look at what''s going on in Birmingham and at Blackpool a couple of seasons back to realise that when this style is good, it''s very good, but if you don''t get the rub of the green things can go incredibly wrong incredibly quickly. Would continuing to play this way really be a good long-term solution for the club?

In my opinion, the only way to establish ourselves as a consistent Premiership side, especially given our budget and location constraints, is to make the team more compact, more difficult to break down, and therefore more difficult to beat. I doubt anyone would disagree that despite a few utter disasters, that when our first choice 11 have been available, we have looked much more solid and competitive regardless of the level of the opposition.

Yes, I agree that the football is definitely not as exciting as it should/could be but on our day we have proven we can compete (and beat) the very best. At this point in time, despite a pretty appalling run of results over the last couple of months, we are certainly not in a bad position. Injuries permitting, I expect us to stay up this season, though not as convincingly as last season. Over the following couple of seasons I think more flair and quality will be added to us up top, given the team more balance offensively, which will hopefully see us move away from a bottom 6 team to a mid-table team.

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I''m joining in the disbelief of the OP and others.  Wasn''t the man of the match today Julio Cesar - he made some blinding saves today - if Greeno had been in the net we would have won by 3 clear goals at least - no problem.  We win next match and other games go our way we''ll be in 10th.  Onwards.

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It does make me wonder if CH just doesn''t rate our frontline hence playin 1 up top. Obviously with Becchio in now and having bids/enquiries knocked back for Hooper and RVW it seems that he wants 2 up front but doesn''t think much of Sim, Martin and co.

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[quote user="technika"][quote user="I.S."]

We''re a work-in-progress .[/quote]jesus wept

the problem being we arent progressing! [/quote]what would you consider progression to be Technika?

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how about not struggling to hold on to 0-0s and 1-1s against teams that are struggling, and not sitting back and just inviting teams to score, and going out to beat teams instead of just settling. Lost out on so many points this season

we might have been kamikaze under lamber but it sure as hell would have seen us finish higher this season that what we are likely to. People on here moaning about holt, morision, and lack of goals from strikers - has a hell of a lot more to do with the managers decisions/style etc etc than the players. They havnt turned goal shy overnight

need to show some balls, the team currently reflects the managers personality, which is a bit worrying

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[quote user="technika"]how about not struggling to hold on to 0-0s and 1-1s against teams that are struggling, and not sitting back and just inviting teams to score, and going out to beat teams instead of just settling. Lost out on so many points this season

we might have been kamikaze under lamber but it sure as hell would have seen us finish higher this season that what we are likely to. People on here moaning about holt, morision, and lack of goals from strikers - has a hell of a lot more to do with the managers decisions/style etc etc than the players. They havnt turned goal shy overnight

need to show some balls, the team currently reflects the managers personality, which is a bit worrying

[/quote]but we are in pretty much the same position as we were this time last season and with a better squad... how have we not progressed?if we stay up and finish 12th how would you perceive that this season?what if we finish 17th but with more points than last season?

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So, to cut it short, the problem with Hoots is:

His overnegative/dour tactics

His total lack of carisma and rallying provess

His non-understanding of how to use subs as a way of changing the game

His constant waiting for the other manager to show his hand first, before going on to do nothing himself

He is allergic towards taking any kind of risk.. He does not even take calculated risks.

His constant neglection of fringe players

His inability to change tactics according to opposition strenghts and weaknesses

His constant bigging up of other teams. Seems as he believes all other teams are better than us

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[quote user="grefstad"]So, to cut it short, the problem with Hoots is:

His overnegative/dour tactics

His total lack of carisma and rallying provess

His non-understanding of how to use subs as a way of changing the game

His constant waiting for the other manager to show his hand first, before going on to do nothing himself

He is allergic towards taking any kind of risk.. He does not even take calculated risks.

His constant neglection of fringe players

His inability to change tactics according to opposition strenghts and weaknesses

His constant bigging up of other teams. Seems as he believes all other teams are better than us[/quote]

I think that list says more about you and your understanding of football in the real world with real money at stake than it says about Hughton.

This is not a computer game. Hughton knows what''s at stake and is following the best path in the circumstances to get us there.

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Well, Cambridge

I am not naive. I know my football just as well as you think you know yours.

And I can see Hughton as a manager in the same mould as Alex McLeish. It is solid, pretty dour, and will probably work for one season.

Our objective though, is to build a foundation for this club to be successful going forward.

If Hughton keeps us up, which I admit is quite likely, do you think he will suddenly be able to attract flair players and thereby change our playing style to the better the following season?

Do you seriously think Hughton will setout next season with more freedom of mind, less pressure, than this season?

Nope, it will like be the same next year, and years after that, since I dont believe a personal charachter will change from one season to the next

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Technics, we didn''t struggle to hold onto 0-0 yesterday, nor the 1-1 midweek against a very good Spuds. Yesterday could easily have gone either way but QPR never created that much (and we had more shots/shots on target), and are certainly not what you''d call struggling for form whatever their league position.

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[quote user="grefstad"]Getting tired of his constant 4-5-1 / 4-4-1-1 system. He is signaling it is more important not to loose than to win. The late entry of Becchio today, just another example. Holt was awful, again, as I have been messing about the entire authumn. When Kamara arrives, Holt is due a lengthy stay on the bench, me thinks I dont think we are able to defend our way to Premier safety, so Hughton need to signal some more offensive intent. I know his main task is imperative, to keep us in the Prem, but still..we wont be able to attract many good players in the summer with such a dull playstyle[/quote]

 

Careful grefstad, you can get youself singled out for ''special'' treatment with views like that on here.[:|]

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From the BBC match report:

 

But home keeper Julio Cesar was forced to make several decent saves in a thrilling second half to earn the draw.

 

Hmm, exciting match and only their keeper kept them in the game.  Funny that, shows some "fans" on here are way too negative!  Get behind the team.

 

OTBC

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[quote user="grefstad"]Well, Cambridge

I am not naive. I know my football just as well as you think you know yours.

And I can see Hughton as a manager in the same mould as Alex McLeish. It is solid, pretty dour, and will probably work for one season.

Our objective though, is to build a foundation for this club to be successful going forward.

If Hughton keeps us up, which I admit is quite likely, do you think he will suddenly be able to attract flair players and thereby change our playing style to the better the following season?

Do you seriously think Hughton will setout next season with more freedom of mind, less pressure, than this season?

Nope, it will like be the same next year, and years after that, since I dont believe a personal charachter will change from one season to the next[/quote]

Well, we will have to disagree then. You have exploded on here this weekend with very negative and impatient posts which I do think lack insight.

There is a job to be done this year in keeping us up and building a club at all levels. Hughton is doing that and doing it well. He had no trouble recruiting flair players at Newcastle.

So many players have testified that he has made them better and he inspires true affection from those he has worked with

What is happening here is what is necessary now. Not what will be when the next stage of the project proceeds.

Your assessments smack of the easy impatience of FM13 or whatever and not the real world.

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[quote user="CambridgeCanary"][quote user="grefstad"]Well, Cambridge

I am not naive. I know my football just as well as you think you know yours.

And I can see Hughton as a manager in the same mould as Alex McLeish. It is solid, pretty dour, and will probably work for one season.

Our objective though, is to build a foundation for this club to be successful going forward.

If Hughton keeps us up, which I admit is quite likely, do you think he will suddenly be able to attract flair players and thereby change our playing style to the better the following season?

Do you seriously think Hughton will setout next season with more freedom of mind, less pressure, than this season?

Nope, it will like be the same next year, and years after that, since I dont believe a personal charachter will change from one season to the next[/quote]

Well, we will have to disagree then. You have exploded on here this weekend with very negative and impatient posts which I do think lack insight.

There is a job to be done this year in keeping us up and building a club at all levels. Hughton is doing that and doing it well. He had no trouble recruiting flair players at Newcastle.

So many players have testified that he has made them better and he inspires true affection from those he has worked with

What is happening here is what is necessary now. Not what will be when the next stage of the project proceeds.

Your assessments smack of the easy impatience of FM13 or whatever and not the real world.[/quote]Leicester and Cardiff will be up next season, playing in the same manner we are playing this season wont keep us up. This little Norwich mentality you all have is appalling, a push over fan is a push over club and to be honest you don''t need to spend big money far from it you just need to bring in the right players which we seem not to do.

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"Lamberts attacking nature - its too much"

If Paul Lambert was still here, I think there would be a similar post about him. I don''t think we would have done as well as we did last season with him. In fact, I think part of the reason he quit was because he felt he''d taken us as far as he could. Including 2 cup wins, there was a spell last season where we won 6 out of 8 (losing and drawing the other 2), culminating in a 3-2 at Swansea. Then starting with the cup defeat to Leicester, we lost 8 out of our last 14 games, winning only 3. The bubble had begun to burst.

It''s no surprise he hasn''t been able to do much with Villa, a) they have a poor squad, and b) other manages had worked out how Lambert sets out his teams. If he was here, I don''t think we''d quite be doing as bad as Villa but still wouldn''t be doing great.

Therefore, I can see fans would have been getting frustrated with his ''all out attack'' approach and wanting us to be more defensive. In fact even last season some were calling for that.

Now we are, it''s not enough.

I agree with others who say it is the right way to play. We are work in progress, and tightening up is a better way of avoiding defeat. It probably won''t be as thrilling as it was with Lambert, but I do think that if we survive this season, Hughton will focus more on the attack with transfers. We have sorted out the defence, whatever people say. Conceded 26 goals in 6 games, and 14 goals in the other 18. We certainly need to strengthen there but not significantly. So that bit is sorted. Next move is the attack. We still have a lot of Championship quality midfielders and attackers, if we stay up this season we will see some being moved on and the quality of our attack improving. Then next season we''ll hopefully be able to be more clinical and Hughton will look less defensive.

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