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scotty is here LOL

Thought Mcnally Denied intrest ?

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

I dont want unsavouries at the club either - but (and it''s an enormous but) if he has changed I would rather have him here than a John Terry for example.  

[/quote]

Cause and effect.

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I have to say that I completely agree with Stig.This attitude that someone can never redeem themselves is a horrible Daily Mail mindset that I have no time for. It makes me sad for humanity.PS. I don''t read the Guardian.

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Captain Obvious,

Perhaps look at this from a different angle. Let''s say that you ran a business in Norwich, with one big office with 50 people, and you had a vacancy for a customer services executive. With it being a recession you have a lot of applicants for the role, perhaps even 100 applicants.

On your application form you included the question "Do you have any criminal convictions Yes/No", you also have the question "If yes please go into detail below".

John Smith aged 24 wrote "convicted for rape and imprisoned in 2004". Would you give him an interview?

I doubt that you would. Why not? Would it be because you would be wary of him? Or would it be because you would be concerned about clients and employees being concerned about it?

Nobody said that he can''t have redeemed himself or repented, everybody is saying that they don''t want him associated with the football club of which they are a frequent long-standing customer.

Norwich would have many unhappy customers and potentially some unhappy employees should they employ this individual. Seems pretty simple to me.

If you think that this is hard line then sorry but that''s a joke, he wouldn''t even get a visa to VISIT America or Canada with that conviction.

I don''t understand this quasi-liberal message that you and Stig are attempting to project. Is it one which says that you shouldn''t worry about committing serious crimes because the penalty will be almost non-existent, some taxpayer funded scheme will let you out most days whilst apparently incarcerated, and when you have been released after serving less than 50% of your sentence there shouldn''t and probably won''t be any consequence to your actions?

I personally prefer the line "don''t commit crime because a criminal record will destroy your life", and that''s the one which my kids will hear.

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In many ways, I don''t disagree with a lot of what you say but let me just clarify my position,His allowances in regards to football whilst inside is part of a rehabilitation process - all prisoners do have access to such services (degrees, vocational qualification etc.).Without this, he would be released form prison with nothing, and no prospects for the future, this would likely lead to a relapse to a life of crime. This to isn''t ''liberal wishy washy'' stuff, this just makes sense.We don''t know his circumstances as a youth or why he got involved with gangs but kids who do for whatever reason get involved with this stuff are often led to do things they wouldn''t do normally as part of pressure from the group. Allowing him to play football is most likely the reason he isn''t back there.I understand the trepidation people would have with this and it''s not something that''s easy to let go of emotionally, but in my opinion is the right thing to do. Not just for ''liberal'' reasons but for pragmatic ones too.

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Politically correct quasi-liberalists who are preaching that a business should employ convicted criminals are not dissimilar from Labour politicians who preach about elitism and inequality before sending their children to private schools, because you can be damn sure that Stig and Captain Obvious would not employ a convicted rapist should they be put in charge of recruiting for a position in whatever company they work for right now.

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[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]Politically correct quasi-liberalists who are preaching that a business should employ convicted criminals are not dissimilar from Labour politicians who preach about elitism and inequality before sending their children to private schools, because you can be damn sure that Stig and Captain Obvious would not employ a convicted rapist should they be put in charge of recruiting for a position in whatever company they work for right now.[/quote]

So what should we do with convicted criminals then? Just throw them all on the garbage pile and hope they don''t resort to further crimes? Maybe just execute the lot of them - Stole a bike? Hang him. Drunk driver? Hang him. Fraud? Hang him.

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Captain Obvious, or posts crossed by the way.

I''m not necessarily saying that he shouldn''t have been given a chance in life.

My biggest fear about signing a convicted child rapist is the abuse that he would get from opposing fans in every single game that he played in this country.

I''m not so sure that going to White Hart Lane and having 10000 yids chanting "peado, peado, peado", would do anything for us or this player.

Maybe he is better off playing football in Belgium, where all 16 clubs have a lower average attendance than Norwich City and ten of the clubs have an average attendance of less than 10000.

This isn''t the best place to be a professional footballer and convicted child rapist, surely you must see that? Irrespective of my opinions, it just isn''t. We''ve just had months of Jimmy Saville revelations...... would this really be good PR for the club?

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I was going to reply to your post Bethnal, but comparing somebody who stole a bike with somebody who was involved in the gang rape of a minor is hardly comparable.

I would comply with the The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (ROA) 1974 in business. Somebody who stole a bike in 2004 would be highly unlikely to still have a criminal record unless they had been convicted of a crime since.

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"So what should we do with convicted criminals then? Just throw them all on the garbage pile and hope they don''t resort to further crimes? Maybe just execute the lot of them - Stole a bike? Hang him. Drunk driver? Hang him. Fraud? Hang him."

Child rapists, in fact any rapists - hang them most certainly.

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[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]Captain Obvious, or posts crossed by the way. I''m not necessarily saying that he shouldn''t have been given a chance in life. My biggest fear about signing a convicted child rapist is the abuse that he would get from opposing fans in every single game that he played in this country. I''m not so sure that going to White Hart Lane and having 10000 yids chanting "peado, peado, peado", would do anything for us or this player. Maybe he is better off playing football in Belgium, where all 16 clubs have a lower average attendance than Norwich City and ten of the clubs have an average attendance of less than 10000. This isn''t the best place to be a professional footballer and convicted child rapist, surely you must see that? Irrespective of my opinions, it just isn''t. We''ve just had months of Jimmy Saville revelations...... would this really be good PR for the club?[/quote]

 

Er, that is not what you have been saying at all. Your arguments have all been to do with what you see as the unforgiveable immorality of his action.

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Actually Purple that isn''t the first time that I''ve made that point on this thread, and that would be my primary concern.

My secondary concern would be the alienation of fans and possibly corporate clients who help fund this club through sponsorships and by using hospitality and catering services.

Concern about his potential to do something stupid again isn''t a serious one, I''d accept that he is probably rehabilitated and of low risk.

As for ''forgiving'', I''ve searched high and low for any statement made by this player in which he talks of regret or remorse, or apologies, or gratitude for his second chance, and I haven''t found one. It wouldn''t be up to me or society to ''forgive'' him though would it, surely that would be up to the victim? Who I am sure is completely unwilling to be revealed by name or face in public as she likely has a private life to be getting on with.

If Nile Ranger is convicted of rape this year (IF), would you all support a scheme which would see him released during the days to play for.... say.... Colchester United? For the duration of his sentence? If you were convicted this year of a crime and sentenced to jail, would you find it bizarre if you were allowed out during the day for the duration of your sentence and allowed to return to your desk to work? I would, just asking.

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[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]I was going to reply to your post Bethnal, but comparing somebody who stole a bike with somebody who was involved in the gang rape of a minor is hardly comparable. I would comply with the The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (ROA) 1974 in business. Somebody who stole a bike in 2004 would be highly unlikely to still have a criminal record unless they had been convicted of a crime since.[/quote]

In your post you commented on all convicted criminals and until the recent verdict at the Court of Human Rights it has been possible to deny someone a job for stealing a bike - I used that exact crime to reflect on the case on ''T'' who had been denied work due to stealing 2 bikes in his younger days.

 

I''m not going to defend what Mboyo did, but I fundamentally believe in everyone''s right to another chance in life. Whether they are a footballer or a carpenter. Also, it is worth pointing out that Mboyo isn''t a paedophile. He was convicted due to not informing the Belgian police of the crime that was ongoing despite his knowledge, not for actually having sexual contact with the unfortunate girl. He was convicted of rape as a group sentance of several members of the gang, although others recieved much harsher convictions due to they role in initiating the crime - I believe the gang leader (and boyfriend of the girl in question) is still in jail to this day.

 

Mboyo himself has come out in the Beligan press and been critical of not recieving harsher treatment and feels he has been sheltered due to being a sports person. If you read any of the interviews with him you can see this is a young man with a terrible past who has truely been able to better himself and helps those who are in danger of making the same mistakes he did. 

 

There are of course questions about morality, forgiveness and someones right to be able to leave the past in the past - questions for which I have never seen a convincing response to in either direction.

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[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]

Actually Purple that isn''t the first time that I''ve made that point on this thread, and that would be my primary concern. My secondary concern would be the alienation of fans and possibly corporate clients who help fund this club through sponsorships and by using hospitality and catering services. Concern about his potential to do something stupid again isn''t a serious one, I''d accept that he is probably rehabilitated and of low risk. As for ''forgiving'', I''ve searched high and low for any statement made by this player in which he talks of regret or remorse, or apologies, or gratitude for his second chance, and I haven''t found one. It wouldn''t be up to me or society to ''forgive'' him though would it, surely that would be up to the victim? Who I am sure is completely unwilling to be revealed by name or face in public as she likely has a private life to be getting on with. If Nile Ranger is convicted of rape this year (IF), would you all support a scheme which would see him released during the days to play for.... say.... Colchester United? For the duration of his sentence? If you were convicted this year of a crime and sentenced to jail, would you find it bizarre if you were allowed out during the day for the duration of your sentence and allowed to return to your desk to work? I would, just asking.[/quote]

 

Looking back, I do see now that you have mentioned that aspect, but that never came across as your primary concern, which was plainly the morality or otherwise of the case:


He served four years in jail, and if you think that this is "justice" then shame on you. "Justice" would be chemical castration and a decade in prison. Should he be permitted to play football again by FIFA and UEFA? Probably, yes. Should Norwich be one of the clubs giving him that opportunity? Most definitely not. Not only would I not want his sort associated with our club, I wouldn''t want him living on the streets of Norwich. Perhaps if you had a 13 or 14 year old daughter, or a 13 or 14 year old sister, your opinion would differ. He has no right to a living as far as I''m concerned, and Norwich fans should not be forced to help fund it.

As far as I''m concerned he was in prison at the age of 17 for gang rape of a minor, he shouldn''t have been playing football at Charleroi at 17, 18, and 19, and he should still be in prison now. He got his chance, a completely undeserved one, through some whacky ultra-liberal rehabilitation scheme which enabled footballers day release from prison but didn''t afford the same opportunities to non-footballers. I''m afraid that Guardian readers are a fast-declining subsection of people, you really are a small minority. More and more people have had it with your apologetic neoliberalist rubbish. Eight years should mean eight years, and eight years would mean that he would have been released this year with no career. Like anybody else who would be sentenced to the same crime. He has ALREADY had chances which others would not get. As for repenting, how do people know whether he has repented?

Just be thankful that you weren''t buggered in a young offenders institution at the age of 14, you would have spent the rest of your life dreaming of retribution and revenge, and the worst possible thing that could happen after the event would be having to see one of the perpetrators playing in the biggest football leagues in the world and for your country''s International team.

I don''t understand this quasi-liberal message that you and Stig are attempting to project. Is it one which says that you shouldn''t worry about committing serious crimes because the penalty will be almost non-existent, some taxpayer funded scheme will let you out most days whilst apparently incarcerated, and when you have been released after serving less than 50% of your sentence there shouldn''t and probably won''t be any consequence to your actions? I personally prefer the line "don''t commit crime because a criminal record will destroy your life", and that''s the one which my kids will hear. 

 

---

 

As to Nile Ranger which is worse and which is more admirable? Leaving aside the rape charge, since he is innocent of that until proved otherwise, he was convicted of a street robbery when 15, of being drunk and disorderly when he was 19, of breaching bail conditions when aged 20, and (under extenuating circumstances)  assaulting two police officers when aged 21. Plus homophobic tweets.

Add all that up and it doesn''t remotely come close in seriousness to Mboyo''s crime. But Mboyo committed his crime when he was 16 or 17 (I''ve seen both ages) and has gone straight since. Ranger has carried on offending.

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I will concede that maybe I have been a little too extreme in attempting to project my concerns about the player, and I am willing to acknowledge that he may be a genuinely reformed character full of remorse, although by the same stretch - he may not.

I would still be very wary of signing him for Norwich City for various different reasons other than his current character though, and I stand by those. It is just one persons opinion and I am entitled to it like others are entitled to theirs.

Nile Ranger has surely not been in prison though Purple? You are all saying that this person has served his sentence and been given an opportunity to reform, and in the process has done so and appears rehabilitated.

Nile Ranger has not been in prison. So, perhaps I should ask again. If Ranger gets sentenced to prison for a few years this year, for any offence, would you support an attempt to rehabilitate him through football with a day release scheme which allowed him to train and play with Colchester United for the duration of his time in prison?

And upon his release in, hypothetically, 2016.... you would be happy for us to sign him after having banged in the goals for Colchester United? On the basis that because he has ''made it'' at Colchester he appears to be rehabilitated and remorseful without any public statement to that effect?

Funny how the tables seem to turn slightly when we discuss a different player?

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Marlon King served his sentence, and hasn''t reoffended since his release from prison in 2010, should we assume that he is rehabilitated too? He has scored 13 goals in 25 games this season, showing himself to still be a very capable striker, would it be out of the question for me to be unhappy for the club to sign him? Or would it be expected of me to presume remorse and rehabilitation?

I can categorically state that I would not want Marlon King to sign for us either. We have NEVER been the type of club to sign people of dubious character.

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[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]I will concede that maybe I have been a little too extreme in attempting to project my concerns about the player, and I am willing to acknowledge that he may be a genuinely reformed character full of remorse, although by the same stretch - he may not. I would still be very wary of signing him for Norwich City for various different reasons other than his current character though, and I stand by those. It is just one persons opinion and I am entitled to it like others are entitled to theirs. Nile Ranger has surely not been in prison though Purple?

You are all saying that this person has served his sentence and been given an opportunity to reform, and in the process has done so and appears rehabilitated.

 

 Nile Ranger has not been in prison. So, perhaps I should ask again. If Ranger gets sentenced to prison for a few years this year, for any offence, would you support an attempt to rehabilitate him through football with a day release scheme which allowed him to train and play with Colchester United for the duration of his time in prison? And upon his release in, hypothetically, 2016.... you would be happy for us to sign him after having banged in the goals for Colchester United? On the basis that because he has ''made it'' at Colchester he appears to be rehabilitated and remorseful without any public statement to that effect? Funny how the tables seem to turn slightly when we discuss a different player?[/quote]

 

I am not quite sure from that what contradictory attitude ("how the tables seem to turn...") you think I have vis-a-vis Mboyo and Ranger so I can''t answer that bit. But I certainly haven''t said definitely that I think Mboyo is reformed. It is something I would need to know more about before reaching any conclusion on the subject. It does seem from reports that he is reformed; certainly, unlike Nile Ranger, he has kept out of trouble. But is this a passive reformation or has he, for example, used his status as a footballer to visit schools and prisons to try to convince young offenders to go straight? If so that would be a real mark in his favour. And I would certainly want him to carry out that kind of work if he were to join NCFC.

On that I notice McNally was tweeting a very few minutes ago. This claim by Mboyo that we approached him/made an offer broke two days ago. McNally so far has not denied it, and if it was untrue I am pretty sure he would have done very quickly.

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[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]Marlon King served his sentence, and hasn''t reoffended since his release from prison in 2010, should we assume that he is rehabilitated too? He has scored 13 goals in 25 games this season, showing himself to still be a very capable striker, would it be out of the question for me to be unhappy for the club to sign him? Or would it be expected of me to presume remorse and rehabilitation? I can categorically state that I would not want Marlon King to sign for us either. We have NEVER been the type of club to sign people of dubious character.[/quote]

 

I am another who also wouldnt want King here either, however good he was

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He shouldn''t ever have gotten out of prison in the first place my opinion, he played his part in ruining a poor kids life, fuck him, his life should also be ruined! I remember being 16, you don''t think any less clearly than you do at any later stage of life, he knew what he was doing, he''s got no excuses and deserves no second chances. I find it amazing that someone hasn''t already run onto a pitch and battered him yet!

Those actually committing the rape of a child deserve execution, they''re sub human. Dogs get put down for biting people to make sure they never injure another person, is that seriously worse than what the child rapists did? and are they any better than an animal?

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[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]Captain Obvious,

Perhaps look at this from a different angle. Let''s say that you ran a business in Norwich, with one big office with 50 people, and you had a vacancy for a customer services executive. With it being a recession you have a lot of applicants for the role, perhaps even 100 applicants.

On your application form you included the question "Do you have any criminal convictions Yes/No", you also have the question "If yes please go into detail below".

John Smith aged 24 wrote "convicted for rape and imprisoned in 2004". Would you give him an interview?

I doubt that you would. Why not? Would it be because you would be wary of him? Or would it be because you would be concerned about clients and employees being concerned about it?

Nobody said that he can''t have redeemed himself or repented, everybody is saying that they don''t want him associated with the football club of which they are a frequent long-standing customer.

Norwich would have many unhappy customers and potentially some unhappy employees should they employ this individual. Seems pretty simple to me.

If you think that this is hard line then sorry but that''s a joke, he wouldn''t even get a visa to VISIT America or Canada with that conviction.

I don''t understand this quasi-liberal message that you and Stig are attempting to project. Is it one which says that you shouldn''t worry about committing serious crimes because the penalty will be almost non-existent, some taxpayer funded scheme will let you out most days whilst apparently incarcerated, and when you have been released after serving less than 50% of your sentence there shouldn''t and probably won''t be any consequence to your actions?

I personally prefer the line "don''t commit crime because a criminal record will destroy your life", and that''s the one which my kids will hear.[/quote]

A quick point on this. As an employer you can only ask about "criminal convictions not yet spent", and if you take into account any convictions that are spent then it is you that is breaking the law.

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"Would those against signing Mboyo also be against signing McCormick, the ex-Plymouth goalie who drank and drove and killed two young children? Someone who also has served his time and seems to be reformed, and trying to get his life and career back. I respect both points of view on Mboyo but find it difficult to argue against giving McCormick a second chance. And he took two lives. However you look at it, that has to be the greater crime, in the sense that it is the crime with greater consequences." - PurpleCanary.

There is a distinct difference between Mboyo and McCormick, and that is called INTENT.

Put simply, McCormick didn''t intend to kill the two children, he intended to drive after he had consumed alcohol. Mboyo, on the other hand, intended, if not actually to rape, at the very least to be party to a particularly savage rape.

Mboyo is a f*cking dirty c*nt and should never set foot in Carrow Road. Unless it one day becomes a gaol.

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[quote user="Asdfghjkl"]He shouldn''t ever have gotten out of prison in the first place my opinion, he played his part in ruining a poor kids life, fuck him, his life should also be ruined! I remember being 16, you don''t think any less clearly than you do at any later stage of life, he knew what he was doing, he''s got no excuses and deserves no second chances. I find it amazing that someone hasn''t already run onto a pitch and battered him yet!

Those actually committing the rape of a child deserve execution, they''re sub human. Dogs get put down for biting people to make sure they never injure another person, is that seriously worse than what the child rapists did? and are they any better than an animal?[/quote]You can''t have grown up much since you were 16 then, or are you only 17 now?  If you honestly think someone who is 16 and is in completely the

wrong crowd doesn''t think differently to someone out of that situation

and more mature then I feel very sorry for you as you have obviously not

grown up.I find the attitudes on some people on here utterly disturbing, so quick to dismiss the guy.  People are entitled to their opinion, that''s fine, but as I''ve said on this thread, no one here has read the case, no one here knows the evidence, no one really knows anything, and consequently no one knows Mboyo''s part in this heinous crime.  Despite people''s anger, I bet you''d all be celebrating if he bagged 20 goals for us.

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I have strong views about many issues raised here and like many my views can be contradictory.  No one is beyond redemption but football is not above morality.

 

Yet, I want to make a more specific point.  I have been in many business scenarios where people have got very excited about a project only for someone to raise an obvious moral or practical problem which had been overlooked in the general exciment.  That "Is this really a good idea" moment.

 

It is entirely possible that someone thought that considering this guy was a good idea and talks were held.  What matters is that someone had the lightbulb moment and the deal did not proceed to an offer. 

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[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]

I have strong views about many issues raised here and like many my views can be contradictory.  No one is beyond redemption but football is not above morality.

 

Yet, I want to make a more specific point.  I have been in many business scenarios where people have got very excited about a project only for someone to raise an obvious moral or practical problem which had been overlooked in the general exciment.  That "Is this really a good idea" moment.

 

It is entirely possible that someone thought that considering this guy was a good idea and talks were held.  What matters is that someone had the lightbulb moment and the deal did not proceed to an offer. 

[/quote]

 

Yes, I recognise that kind of situation you mention, but you don''t know that is why we didn''t carry on to make a bid in this case. Based on Mboyo''s version of events (which McNally could have now denied but hasn''t so far) a probable scenario is that we approached his club and got permission to talk to Mboyo, and outlined a offer of personal terms and the like. He then told us he wanted to stay in Belgium for the remainder of the season. Accordingly we realised there was no point in making a bid to the club because the player had in effect turned us down.

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[quote user="ncfcstar"][quote user="Asdfghjkl"]He shouldn''t ever have gotten out of prison in the first place my opinion, he played his part in ruining a poor kids life, fuck him, his life should also be ruined! I remember being 16, you don''t think any less clearly than you do at any later stage of life, he knew what he was doing, he''s got no excuses and deserves no second chances. I find it amazing that someone hasn''t already run onto a pitch and battered him yet! Those actually committing the rape of a child deserve execution, they''re sub human. Dogs get put down for biting people to make sure they never injure another person, is that seriously worse than what the child rapists did? and are they any better than an animal?[/quote]

You can''t have grown up much since you were 16 then, or are you only 17 now?  If you honestly think someone who is 16 and is in completely the wrong crowd doesn''t think differently to someone out of that situation and more mature then I feel very sorry for you as you have obviously not grown up.

I find the attitudes on some people on here utterly disturbing, so quick to dismiss the guy.  People are entitled to their opinion, that''s fine, but as I''ve said on this thread, no one here has read the case, no one here knows the evidence, no one really knows anything, and consequently no one knows Mboyo''s part in this heinous crime. 

Despite people''s anger, I bet you''d all be celebrating if he bagged 20 goals for us.
[/quote]

 

I can guarantee you 100% that I would not celebrate anything he does for a single second. As I said earlier, as someone who has a loved one who was the victim of a sexual crime, I''d have to consider whether I could carry on as a season ticket holder if we were to sign him.

 

I don''t care how rehabilitated he is, he was part of a situation that willfully ruined somebody''s life. I am as equally disturbed as you at some peoples attitudes, how anyone can think that someone who was involved in this can be deserving of the fame and riches of professional football is beyond me.

 

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[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]

[quote user="ncfcstar"][quote user="Asdfghjkl"]He shouldn''t ever have gotten out of prison in the first place my opinion, he played his part in ruining a poor kids life, fuck him, his life should also be ruined! I remember being 16, you don''t think any less clearly than you do at any later stage of life, he knew what he was doing, he''s got no excuses and deserves no second chances. I find it amazing that someone hasn''t already run onto a pitch and battered him yet! Those actually committing the rape of a child deserve execution, they''re sub human. Dogs get put down for biting people to make sure they never injure another person, is that seriously worse than what the child rapists did? and are they any better than an animal?[/quote]You can''t have grown up much since you were 16 then, or are you only 17 now?  If you honestly think someone who is 16 and is in completely the wrong crowd doesn''t think differently to someone out of that situation and more mature then I feel very sorry for you as you have obviously not grown up.I find the attitudes on some people on here utterly disturbing, so quick to dismiss the guy.  People are entitled to their opinion, that''s fine, but as I''ve said on this thread, no one here has read the case, no one here knows the evidence, no one really knows anything, and consequently no one knows Mboyo''s part in this heinous crime.  Despite people''s anger, I bet you''d all be celebrating if he bagged 20 goals for us.[/quote]

 

I can guarantee you 100% that I would not celebrate anything he does for a single second. As I said earlier, as someone who has a loved one who was the victim of a sexual crime, I''d have to consider whether I could carry on as a season ticket holder if we were to sign him.

 

I don''t care how rehabilitated he is, he was part of a situation that willfully ruined somebody''s life. I am as equally disturbed as you at some peoples attitudes, how anyone can think that someone who was involved in this can be deserving of the fame and riches of professional football is beyond me.

 

[/quote]Obviously as you are someone who has direct experience of these types of crimes I understand why you would be against Mboyo joining.That being said, is not someone who walks past an assault, or witnesses a murder but doesn''t say anything, or who sits idle whilst an old lady is mugged not as culpable?  The facts show that Mboyo played no part in the actual crime, but was a witness (part of the gang) who didn''t say anything to the police when he could have.

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Just read the thread and thought I would comment myself.The fact that he was convicted of taking part in a gang rape of a 14 yr old  should be good enough reason on it''s own for Norwich to have not discussed any potential move to Norwich, Mcnally has denied this so I accept his word.I don''t think he should be given a 2nd chance within football (due to being highly supported by families)he had his chance in life and screwed it up so good riddance to him and it''s a pity he wasn''t hanged or even hanged himself.If he did play for Norwich I would refuse to go and watch and protest strongly about him being included in any way possible.Norwich City FC won''t take that chance.

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[quote user="Asdfghjkl"]He shouldn''t ever have gotten out of prison in the first place my opinion, he played his part in ruining a poor kids life, fuck him, his life should also be ruined! I remember being 16, you don''t think any less clearly than you do at any later stage of life, he knew what he was doing, he''s got no excuses and deserves no second chances. I find it amazing that someone hasn''t already run onto a pitch and battered him yet!

Those actually committing the rape of a child deserve execution, they''re sub human. Dogs get put down for biting people to make sure they never injure another person, is that seriously worse than what the child rapists did? and are they any better than an animal?[/quote]If we act in that way then we''re no better than the criminals.Killing a murderer is still murder.If we allow state-sanctioned murder, then we''re all murderers.If

you describe a crime and criminal as ''sub-human'', how can we then act

sub-human ourselves in response to that crime? It makes the whole thing

an exercise in hypocrisy.It may be a cliché but two wrongs don''t make a right.

Second thing:I agree with singupcarrowroad in one important respect,We

shouldn''t sign Mboyo, simply because it would be controversial, it

would split the support, upset the dressing room and cause all kinds of

strife we can do without.Whilst a few would give him the benefit of

the doubt and support him, many would likely carry hardline attitudes. Whilst I can understand this and it is a perfectly natural emotional response, it doesn''t mean it''s the right way to act or deal with such things.The mark of a civilised society is how it treats it''s criminals.On another note, Mboyo is probably an adequate striker but we''ve got bigger fish to fry in the form of Hooper and Wolfswinkel.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="CambridgeCanary"]

I have strong views about many issues raised here and like many my views can be contradictory.  No one is beyond redemption but football is not above morality.

 

Yet, I want to make a more specific point.  I have been in many business scenarios where people have got very excited about a project only for someone to raise an obvious moral or practical problem which had been overlooked in the general exciment.  That "Is this really a good idea" moment.

 

It is entirely possible that someone thought that considering this guy was a good idea and talks were held.  What matters is that someone had the lightbulb moment and the deal did not proceed to an offer. 

[/quote]

 

Yes, I recognise that kind of situation you mention, but you don''t know that is why we didn''t carry on to make a bid in this case. Based on Mboyo''s version of events (which McNally could have now denied but hasn''t so far) a probable scenario is that we approached his club and got permission to talk to Mboyo, and outlined a offer of personal terms and the like. He then told us he wanted to stay in Belgium for the remainder of the season. Accordingly we realised there was no point in making a bid to the club because the player had in effect turned us down.

[/quote]

 

Quite right Purple.  I was extrapolating; something I have criticised others for.

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[quote user="CambridgeCanary"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="CambridgeCanary"]

I have strong views about many issues raised here and like many my views can be contradictory.  No one is beyond redemption but football is not above morality.

 

Yet, I want to make a more specific point.  I have been in many business scenarios where people have got very excited about a project only for someone to raise an obvious moral or practical problem which had been overlooked in the general exciment.  That "Is this really a good idea" moment.

 

It is entirely possible that someone thought that considering this guy was a good idea and talks were held.  What matters is that someone had the lightbulb moment and the deal did not proceed to an offer. 

[/quote]

 

Yes, I recognise that kind of situation you mention, but you don''t know that is why we didn''t carry on to make a bid in this case. Based on Mboyo''s version of events (which McNally could have now denied but hasn''t so far) a probable scenario is that we approached his club and got permission to talk to Mboyo, and outlined a offer of personal terms and the like. He then told us he wanted to stay in Belgium for the remainder of the season. Accordingly we realised there was no point in making a bid to the club because the player had in effect turned us down.

[/quote]

 

Quite right Purple.  I was extrapolating; something I have criticised others for.

[/quote]

 

Cambridge, I have been in exactly the kind of situation you describe, where all the discussion is about the legality or otherwise of a potential decison/action and someone (possibly even me!) has piped up with an annoying question about the morality of the issue.

In this case I cannot believe we did not know of Mboyo''s past at the outset. You may be right that later on someone piped up, or the moral case grew stronger and took over the argument. But my suspicion is as above, that it was the player who effectively ended our interest, at least until the summer.

I think this has been a good discussion and it is known that McNally keeps an eye on the message-boards, so people''s views here may be counting for something.

For myself I still would want to know at least five things.

Firstly, what was Mboyo''s part in the rape. Was it active or passive, as a spectator?

Was he treated over-leniently by the Belgian judicial/penal system because of his talent, or is that the usual way there, to try to encourage (successfully in this case) criminals to go straight?

What is the view of John Collins, the Charleroi manager who gave Mboyo a chance, as to the genuineness or otherwise of his moral reformation.

What is the view of the victim as to Mboyo''s apparent reformation and the fact that he is able to play and earn very good money as a footballer? I would place a fair bit of weight on that.

Has Mboyo, once released, used his privileged position as a footballer to try to convince gang members and the like to give up that criminal way of life? Another important factor for me.

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