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scotty is here LOL

Thought Mcnally Denied intrest ?

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Clearly there are people who would be happy for him to play for Norwich City. I am one of those who would not.

That is a difference in opinion of course, but those who would be happy for him to play for us should perhaps consider the uproar and discontent that could rip through not only the fanbase but also the squad.

Judging by the number of fans who would be unhappy to welcome him here, we can assume that there would be at least a few players who would be uneasy about this too.

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Would those against signing Mboyo also be against signing McCormick, the ex-Plymouth goalie who drank and drove and killed two young children? Someone who also has served his time and seems to be reformed, and trying to get his life and career back. I respect both points of view on Mboyo but find it difficult to argue against giving McCormick a second chance. And he took two lives. However you look at it, that has to be the greater crime, in the sense that it is the crime with greater consequences.

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Just curious as to why my original thread on this subject was ignored?

Anyway, so far as I''m concerned ... I really don''t know what to think. It''s one of those situations where you''d have to have an awful lot of background information to know what to make of him.

It''s easy enough to make a judgement with someone coming from a stable, comparatively affluent background (as I would imagine most of us do), but some people are brought up in ways which must make it hard for them to behave "normally". Child soldiers are a prime example.

I think sometimes we forget how lucky most of us are.

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Whilst I am all for rehabilitating offenders back into society, I do not think that a person with a conviction for child rape should be rehabilitated through playing football for a professional football club.

Professional footballers by their very nature are role models looked up to by millions of young people, I for one would feel very uncomfortable seeing somebody with a past like his being a role model for young people.

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, being a professional footballer brings you into contact with young people. Would you want a convicted child rapist meeting/coaching/signing autographs for your son/daughter/brother/sister? In any other profession he wouldn''t be allowed to get even close to kids.

For the two reasons above, I would be very uncomfortable with Mboyo in a Norwich shirt. Thinking about it i''m uncomfortable with the fact that he''s still a professional footballer.

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[quote user="ron obvious"]

I think sometimes we forget how lucky most of us are.[/quote]

I''ve just read up a little about Mboyo, apparently he was in the same youth team at Anderlecht as Vincent Kompany and Anthony Vanden Borre.

I think sometimes we forget how lucky most of us are and the opportunities we get in life.

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If the lad were just at the scene but didn''t actually take part in the commission of the rape or assisted any of the offenders, then would he have been guilty of any offence had the crime taken place in this country?I believe in Belgium there is a duty to rescue law, where you can get done for not coming to the aid of a crime victim or reporting the crime. However in Britain many would shun someone convicted under such a law even though we don''t have one ourselves.

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[quote user="JonnyH"]If the lad were just at the scene but didn''t actually take part in the commission of the rape or assisted any of the offenders, then would he have been guilty of any offence had the crime taken place in this country?I believe in Belgium there is a duty to rescue law, where you can get done for not coming to the aid of a crime victim or reporting the crime. However in Britain many would shun someone convicted under such a law even though we don''t have one ourselves.[/quote]

According to this article:

http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun/cs/forums/AddPost.aspx?PostID=2867697&Quote=True

The gang imprisoned the girl for four days, plenty of time to tell the police? And I think it''s telling that despite being 17 he was tried as an adult.

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There is a lot of speculation on this thread and it would actually be interesting to read the full facts of the case.

Peoples attitudes with no real idea of the full facts are also interesting.

Without the full facts of the case its hard to know how to feel, but while I wouldn''t consider myself a true liberal, I do wonder about people who no matter how someone has turned their life around refuse to accept in any way their past crimes.

Prison purely as punishment doesn''t work, while some crimes obviously deserve severe punishment, the attitude of some seems to be that he will always be gang rapist in their eyes as soon as he is smeared by the press with that brush, facts of the case present or not.

At 30 will he still be only a gang rapist in your eyes? 40, 50 60? As a pensioner no matter what he has done with his life will this still be the brush he must be tarred with?

No wonder most people can never leave a criminal lifestyle if they are damned from what is effectively childhood. And yes I know sexual crime is very different but without knowing his actions in the events, who are we to fully condemn him?

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[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]Stig he was involved in a gang rape of a 14 year old girl, he didn''t get jailed for having a scrap in a nightclub.

He served four years in jail, and if you think that this is "justice" then shame on you.

"Justice" would be chemical castration and a decade in prison. Should he be permitted to play football again by FIFA and UEFA? Probably, yes.

Should Norwich be one of the clubs giving him that opportunity? Most definitely not.

Not only would I not want his sort associated with our club, I wouldn''t want him living on the streets of Norwich. Perhaps if you had a 13 or 14 year old daughter, or a 13 or 14 year old sister, your opinion would differ.

He has no right to a living as far as I''m concerned, and Norwich fans should not be forced to help fund it.

For arguments sake, I wouldn''t exactly tear up the season ticket if he signed, but I''d be pretty f''in mad and I wouldn''t cheer his goals. Neither do I think that the chants that he would get would do anything at all positive for our team mates.

I thought we were all about team spirit? Do Norwich players want to play with a predatory gang rapist? I would certainly hope not.

I hope that McNally has got the message now, but shame on him and Hughton for considering him a target, as they certainly appear to have done so.

Staying in the Premier League is important, but not at ANY cost. Not at the cost of our integrity and morals. Actually disappointed to hear that we seem to have had serious interest.[/quote]
You and your opinion are fueled by stupid papers for stupid people such as The Sun and The Mail. What an utterely ridiculous thing to come out with. He served the time he was given and the people who judged him saw fit to let him go. So why can''t everybody else see fit to let him move on with his life? Moronic.

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Honestly I''m a little disgusted with the way everyone is willing to point the gun at Mboyo. As far as I am concerned he has repented and is trying to making his way in life, as we all deserve to. As far as I am concerned NCFC is a club willing to give opportunities to those willing to take those opportunities and work hard. That would pretty much cover our whole squad and would only be reinforced by this guys addition. In fact I think it would be a truly brilliant decision on the clubs behalf to be the ones to turn his life around and show that he means no wrong. I am not for a second defending what he did, but I AM defending him as a human being looking for another chance at life. As I said, I''m disgusted that all of you are being so quick to deny him a chance at our club. Shame on you.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]Would those against signing Mboyo also be against signing McCormick, the ex-Plymouth goalie who drank and drove and killed two young children? Someone who also has served his time and seems to be reformed, and trying to get his life and career back. I respect both points of view on Mboyo but find it difficult to argue against giving McCormick a second chance. And he took two lives. However you look at it, that has to be the greater crime, in the sense that it is the crime with greater consequences.[/quote]

 

Thats an interesting and difficult one PC.    For me a lot of it is around intention.   Mboyo could have walked away rather than stayed with the gang so he made a choice.

 

With causing death by driving I think its a really tough call - as you say the most horrific of consequences which drive a media led over-reaction and disproportionate sentence in most cases. The facts are that most deaths from motor vehicles are genuine accidents - few people set out to kill with a car and where its a momentary error of judgement a prison sentence sentence serves little purpose.   

 

For drink driving it is different - I think there are two groups.   It is legal to drink and drive in this country.  It may be morally unacceptable howver it remains legal.   So those marginally (say one drink that affected them more than anticipated due to some drug interaction say) over again while the consequences are horrific is that really intentional?   In those circumstances yes I probably would  have them as a city player.

 

Where the person has consumed more than 3 drinks then I lose all sympathy.   They know they are breaking the law, what the possible consequences may be, and so a manslaughter charge and equivalent consequence is appropriate.  However there is still no intention to kill someone when they get behind the wheel, it is still an accident however sad the consequences so any sentence should be less than those for rape or murder.

 

For me that intention or decision is key.         

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]Would those against signing Mboyo also be against signing McCormick, the ex-Plymouth goalie who drank and drove and killed two young children? Someone who also has served his time and seems to be reformed, and trying to get his life and career back. I respect both points of view on Mboyo but find it difficult to argue against giving McCormick a second chance. And he took two lives. However you look at it, that has to be the greater crime, in the sense that it is the crime with greater consequences.[/quote]

 

Thats an interesting and difficult one PC.    For me a lot of it is around intention.   Mboyo could have walked away rather than stayed with the gang so he made a choice.

 

With causing death by driving I think its a really tough call - as you say the most horrific of consequences which drive a media led over-reaction and disproportionate sentence in most cases. The facts are that most deaths from motor vehicles are genuine accidents - few people set out to kill with a car and where its a momentary error of judgement a prison sentence sentence serves little purpose.   

 

For drink driving it is different - I think there are two groups.   It is legal to drink and drive in this country.  It may be morally unacceptable howver it remains legal.   So those marginally (say one drink that affected them more than anticipated due to some drug interaction say) over again while the consequences are horrific is that really intentional?   In those circumstances yes I probably would  have them as a city player.

 

Where the person has consumed more than 3 drinks then I lose all sympathy.   They know they are breaking the law, what the possible consequences may be, and so a manslaughter charge and equivalent consequence is appropriate.  However there is still no intention to kill someone when they get behind the wheel, it is still an accident however sad the consequences so any sentence should be less than those for rape or murder.

 

For me that intention or decision is key.         

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]Would those against signing Mboyo also be against signing McCormick, the ex-Plymouth goalie who drank and drove and killed two young children? Someone who also has served his time and seems to be reformed, and trying to get his life and career back. I respect both points of view on Mboyo but find it difficult to argue against giving McCormick a second chance. And he took two lives. However you look at it, that has to be the greater crime, in the sense that it is the crime with greater consequences.[/quote]

 

Thats an interesting and difficult one PC.    For me a lot of it is around intention.   Mboyo could have walked away rather than stayed with the gang so he made a choice.

 

With causing death by driving I think its a really tough call - as you say the most horrific of consequences which drive a media led over-reaction and disproportionate sentence in most cases. The facts are that most deaths from motor vehicles are genuine accidents - few people set out to kill with a car and where its a momentary error of judgement a prison sentence sentence serves little purpose.   

 

For drink driving it is different - I think there are two groups.   It is legal to drink and drive in this country.  It may be morally unacceptable howver it remains legal.   So those marginally (say one drink that affected them more than anticipated due to some drug interaction say) over again while the consequences are horrific is that really intentional?   In those circumstances yes I probably would  have them as a city player.

 

Where the person has consumed more than 3 drinks then I lose all sympathy.   They know they are breaking the law, what the possible consequences may be, and so a manslaughter charge and equivalent consequence is appropriate.  However there is still no intention to kill someone when they get behind the wheel, it is still an accident however sad the consequences so any sentence should be less than those for rape or murder.

 

For me that intention or decision is key.         

[/quote]
Could he? I think it''s a lot more complex than that. If a gang is setting out to ruin a child as they did, I dare say they wouldn''t flinch at either doing the same to a traitor of the gang or killing them outright. Too easy to say he could have walked away. Perhaps he had the intention to walk away, but made the decision to stay alive himself.

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Pure conjuncture. Making wild assumptions in respect of the newspapers that I choose to read, wholly inaccurate ones at that.

As far as I''m concerned he was in prison at the age of 17 for gang rape of a minor, he shouldn''t have been playing football at Charleroi at 17, 18, and 19, and he should still be in prison now.

He got his chance, a completely undeserved one, through some whacky ultra-liberal rehabilitation scheme which enabled footballers day release from prison but didn''t afford the same opportunities to non-footballers.

I''m afraid that Guardian readers are a fast-declining subsection of people, you really are a small minority. More and more people have had it with your apologetic neoliberalist rubbish. Eight years should mean eight years, and eight years would mean that he would have been released this year with no career.

Like anybody else who would be sentenced to the same crime. He has ALREADY had chances which others would not get.

As for repenting, how do people know whether he has repented?

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Stig, you are talking a load of codswallop, I trust that you have a whole plethora of qualifications in criminology and criminal psychology and a decade of experience dealing with disadvantaged youths in impoverished inner-city areas? Or are you just spouting more apologetic liberal nonsense?

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[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]Pure conjuncture. Making wild assumptions in respect of the newspapers that I choose to read, wholly inaccurate ones at that.

As far as I''m concerned he was in prison at the age of 17 for gang rape of a minor, he shouldn''t have been playing football at Charleroi at 17, 18, and 19, and he should still be in prison now.

He got his chance, a completely undeserved one, through some whacky ultra-liberal rehabilitation scheme which enabled footballers day release from prison but didn''t afford the same opportunities to non-footballers.

I''m afraid that Guardian readers are a fast-declining subsection of people, you really are a small minority. More and more people have had it with your apologetic neoliberalist rubbish. Eight years should mean eight years, and eight years would mean that he would have been released this year with no career.

Like anybody else who would be sentenced to the same crime. He has ALREADY had chances which others would not get.

As for repenting, how do people know whether he has repented?[/quote]
How do you know he hasn''t? The one thing I agree with you is, he SHOULD have been in prison still doing the eight years and whether the laws he were tried by were good enough or not is best left to another forum altogether. I just think it is too much to deny this man a life, especially when we know so little about him and the circumstances he was in.

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[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]Stig, you are talking a load of codswallop, I trust that you have a whole plethora of qualifications in criminology and criminal psychology and a decade of experience dealing with disadvantaged youths in impoverished inner-city areas? Or are you just spouting more apologetic liberal nonsense?[/quote]
Great use of keywords there, further telling me you read garbage papers that fill your mind with those said keywords. Good job. Enjoy your little mind and your six''o''clock news, I''ll be over here trying to further myself as a human being rather than feeding off of others opinions.

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I read The Independent and the Financial Times. Any other questions about my reading habits?

I also have a first class degree and employ three people. Enjoy ''furthering your mind'', I will concentrate on attempting to grow my business.

I always love the way that Guardian readers pride themselves in being "socially liberal" yet attempting to sell their superiority over everybody else in society at any given opportunity. Putting down others on the basis that they read a different newspaper is their modus operandi actually.

Somewhat ironic that the liberal/neocon crowd are the biggest perpetrators of brainwashing that this country has ever seen. It has become politically incorrect to say just about anything after 13 years of neocon bullcrap. As for the six o''clock news, that would be the BBC news right? The left leaning BBC news?

Apparently now every convict should be forgiven for no other reason that some liberal nutjob tells me too. Enjoy Ed Balls and Ed Miliband, I''m hoping to take myself - and my business - to another country before they see power.

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You are forgetting Stig that a gang rape is not a victimless crime. The victim, by virtue of still being alive, will suffer the consequences of this crime for a lifetime. This footballer served three years, and didn''t even really serve that, as he was playing football everyday. How and where does the political spectrum and my choice of newspaper fall in that equation?

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[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]You are forgetting Stig that a gang rape is not a victimless crime. The victim, by virtue of still being alive, will suffer the consequences of this crime for a lifetime. This footballer served three years, and didn''t even really serve that, as he was playing football everyday. How and where does the political spectrum and my choice of newspaper fall in that equation?[/quote]
Your posts and the terrible wording within...
 How dare you tell me I forget their was an innocent fourteen year old victim to these crimes. The subject was the footballer NOT the victim, or have we forgotten the forum we are posting on in our flurry to condemn everyone in front of us?

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Oh, and just to let you know.... I don''t read a single newspaper. I''d rather not be swayed by the mindless propaganda today''s media would woefully have us believe. I make my own decisions and go with my own thoughts. In this case, it would be to offer the footballer the chance to come to a growing football club based in a beautiful city so that he might better himself and make a new name so that the judgmental claws of society can let go of him. It''s easier to hate him, isn''t it? Easy to just lash out on an internet forum and condemn the man further... why don''t you try and challenge yourself, and find forgiveness for him?

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Just to throw another angle into this argument but a growing part of a footballers life is promoting the game at a school level, be it threw Football in the Community initiatives or visits to schools. How would this player manage to partake in this given the stringent CRB checks that are put in place these days.

To those who say that he has served his time, ask yourself this, would you be happy were your daughter/niece/sister to be an NCFC mascot and walk out holding hands with this individual?

To anybody that says that he was not as guilty because he didn''t actually commit the act of rape I''d strongly suggest you watch the film The Accused, maybe you might see it differently then.

 

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[quote user="scents60"]

Just to throw another angle into this argument but a growing part of a footballers life is promoting the game at a school level, be it threw Football in the Community initiatives or visits to schools. How would this player manage to partake in this given the stringent CRB checks that are put in place these days.

To those who say that he has served his time, ask yourself this, would you be happy were your daughter/niece/sister to be an NCFC mascot and walk out holding hands with this individual?

To anybody that says that he was not as guilty because he didn''t actually commit the act of rape I''d strongly suggest you watch the film The Accused, maybe you might see it differently then.

 

[/quote]
What is he going to do?! Commit the same atrocity in the middle of the pitch??!!! Have some god damned common sense!

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As far as I''m concerned, I don''t want to see this individual anywhere near a yellow shirt. I say that as someone who has a loved one who was the victim of a sexual crime. His victim will remember his, and his gangs, actions (or lack of) every minute of every day of the rest of their lives.

I realise that criminals that have served their time need to be given the opportunity to get back into society, but In my possibly biased opinion criminals of *this* nature are undeserving of the rewards of professional football. This isn''t the same as a night club fight, or stealing a car, he has willingly partaken in an act that has ruined a young child''s life.

I would have to seriously consider my position as a season ticket holder if we were to ever sign this player.

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If he had signed, i would not have renewed my season ticket.

FWIW I dont think he should be playing professional football at all

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The only way I would have him play football for our club is if part of his contract involves one of our medical team chopping his cock off and flushing it down the toilet.

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The point Stig is that were he an ordinary member of Joe Public with a record of this nature he would not be permitted anywhere near children.

I wholeheartedly agree with Mr Brownstone.

 

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Stig, you continue to lash out with your holiour than you, everybody else is wrong because I am always right, attitude.

Yet it looks like you are in a clear minority with your opinion here. You are welcome to your opinion, it is about as far removed from mine as possible. I am exercising my right not to respect your opinion on the basis that you seem completely unwilling to respect everybody else''s.

You appear to have some sort of inferiority complex by the way. Perhaps if you READ more you would have a better understanding of the effects that serious sex crimes, or even minor sex crimes, can have on a victim. Not just in the short term, but for the duration of their life.

Just be thankful that you weren''t buggered in a young offenders institution at the age of 14, you would have spent the rest of your life dreaming of retribution and revenge, and the worst possible thing that could happen after the event would be having to see one of the perpetrators playing in the biggest football leagues in the world and for your country''s International team.

Good luck to the bloke, and good for you for supporting it morally. That doesn''t mean that I have to support it either morally or financially, which supporters would be asked to do if he signed.

That''s my opinion, and I don''t give a sh*t whether it contravenes your warped personal ideology.

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